Under Defeat HD

[ADJones]

Posting here for one reason only: I think I have a defective disc (US PS3 ver.).

At the start of the 1-4/2-4 boss the music plays for a few seconds, then cuts out. It's replaced by intermittent glitchy static noises. This only happens with the New Order soundtrack. With the original soundtrack the boss music does not play, just the stage music.

This is unlikely to be an issue of my PS3, it was purchased new only a few months ago and has not had disc read errors. The disc is free of scratches.

I believe someone here in the past had a lot of trouble getting a replacement in the US for a defective Akai Katana disc that wouldn't even run. I hope I have more success, unless this is something that needs a patch to be fixed.

I also have the same problem (UK PS3 HD Deluxe ver.), bgm stops just before the stage 4 boss and makes those weird noises, so maybe it's not a defective disc? Will try the trick you suggested. Really enjoying the game despite this little nuisance.

[Chacranajxy]

So now that Under Defeat HD has been released like 40 times and perhaps even been patched... what is the best version of Under Defeat if you're primarily interested in the standard arcade mode? I'm guessing the Dreamcast version is still definitive, but you never know.

[rancor]

Yeah - Dreamcast is still by far the best. I'm not familiar with the PS3 version but I assume that aside from the bugfix it received it's the same as my X360 version. The new release does have it's upsides (DLC chopper, New Order mode, Superplay DVD, etc.) but IMO for the definitive arcade version you're still gonna need to have the original GD-ROM...

[Zeether]

Japhei is still spamming G.Rev's Facebook about the patch and I'm tempted to just say "Quit spamming and go back to scamming"

[Skykid]

Yeah - Dreamcast is still by far the best.

Just popped in and saw this, then trawled the thread to find out why. Sounds like the seriously fucked it up, glad I didn't buy it now.

[HydrogLox]

then trawled the thread to find out why. Sounds like the seriously fucked it up, glad I didn't buy it now.

That is probably a bit harsh. Granted there were lots of pre-orders that had their hopes of getting an arcade perfect (3:4) "Under Defeat" port dashed. But shortly after the Japanese February 2012 release it became quickly clear that would not been happening in "Under Defeat HD". From that point on anybody acquiring "Under Defeat HD" should have known the shortcomings of the arcade mode and be prepared to live with them. So post-release (after February 2012) and "Deluxe" purchases should have been mainly motivated by the "New Order" widescreen arrangement - those getting it for the arcade mode should have known what they were getting into. Maybe it would have been more honest of G.rev to leave the "arcade mode" out entirely - but I imagine the 'fan-outrage' of not supplying an arcade mode would have been just as caustic.

In the letter included in "Under Defeat HD Deluxe" Hiroyuki Maruyama labels G.rev as a "boutique-studio" or "boutique-developer".

Pink Bullets: Rev-ved Up! We chat with G.Rev president Hiroyuki Maruyama!:
“Border Down is an even older title than Under Defeat, but unlike with UD we feel like we still have unfinished ideas that we would like implement. Because of that we would have to invest quite a lot of resources to remake Border Down. It would probably require the same investment as developing a new title from scratch. Of course, part of me wants to remake Border Down, but I am also the head of Grev and therefore have to think in business terms. So for now we are not planning to remake BD, but give us some time and we perhaps can make it happen in the future”.

Under Defeat HD: How a cult Japanese shoot ‘em up made it to European PS3s:
"After releasing Under Defeat in the arcades, we naturally considered porting it to a console. As the Dreamcast was already in the twilight of its lifespan, we first looked at bringing the game to the PlayStation 2. Unfortunately, as we intended to outsource the project, the quotes we received from developers were well over three times the budget we used in making the arcade version. So plans for a PS2 build were scrapped."

To me this paints a picture of G.rev wanting to leverage the experience it gained in developing the PS3 title "Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta!: Meikai Katsugeki Wide Han" for attempting a multi-platform (PS3/XBox 360) release. Sony always wants a widescreen mode for the PS3 but "Border Down" still has too much underdeveloped potential making it too big a project - so "Under Defeat" was chosen. The old assets were dusted off and got a make over and G.rev designed the stage layout and engine for the widescreen "New Order" mode - planning to "re-arrange" its various components to later create the "Arcade" mode. "Development" once again took longer than expected and the budgeted project effort runs out fast - so just enough time was put into the "Arcade" mode to make it "work" but there was nothing left for the time consuming (i.e. money burning) tweaking that would be required to replicate the behavior of the Naomi/Dreamcast version. There was precious little potential "pay off" for the required "investment" - "Under Defeat HD" had to ship on it's original release date even if it meant delivering it with an "Arcade Mode" that was not arcade perfect.

The Naomi/Dreamcast "Under Defeat" may still be king but the 7th generation console "New Order" arrangement on "Under Defeat HD (Deluxe)" can hold it's own and is worth the price of admission.

In the unlikely event that "Border Down HD" should see the light of day we will know better and not expect an arcade perfect port of the Naomi/Dreamcast "Border Down" but a 7th generation incarnation of it.

Wonder what G.rev is doing after Gunhound EX.

[Skykid]

^ That's all well and good, but they actually fucked it up. The sound is off, muddying the option deploy chime's significance, and rockets begin firing from enemies still off-screen, amongst others. I believe the full screen issue was actually sorted out via an in-game menu option, weirdly tucked away.

But splashing cash just for New Order mode isn't really worth it, considering the issues with arcade mode and the general expense. I would have expected G.Rev to produce a title that made owners of DC Under Defeat have to have this as an addition/replacement owing to an upped standard of quality. All in all it sounds like it turned out to be a step backwards.

[HydrogLox]

That's all well and good, but they actually fucked it up. The sound is off, muddying the option deploy chime's significance, and rockets begin firing from enemies still off-screen, amongst others.

It's obvious that you are disappointed. But your expectations are that of an ardent fan of a cult-classic who doesn't want to see the original messed with. The original Naomi/Dreamcast release still plays the same way it has always played. "Under Defeat HD" takes the ideas and look of the original but "re-incarnates" it for 16:9 screens and the 7th generation of consoles.

I would have expected G.Rev to produce a title that made owners of DC Under Defeat have to have this as an addition/replacement owing to an upped standard of quality.

Addition - yes; it is the verizontal, 7th generation incarnation of the 6th generation vertical scrolling classic original. Replacement - no; G.rev derives no advantage from people selling off their Dreamcast copies - and some don't want to sell off their copies. The target demographic of "owners of DC Under Defeat have to have this as replacement" is too small to spend too much development time on exactly duplicating the behavior of the Naomi original. They should have never announced (and implemented) the arcade mode - but then the same people who are complaining now that the arcade mode is broken, would be screaming "How can Under Defeat HD be released without an arcade mode" - maybe because it was designed for widescreen (16:9; HD) TVs as the name implies?

I've played DC "Under Defeat" after I played "Under Defeat HD New Order". "Under Defeat HD New Order" in fact finally pushed me over the edge to acquire both a Sega Dreamcast and Saturn, as I couldn't believe that I missed out on "Under Defeat". Having played the original I can say it is a keeper - but it has in no way diminished my enjoyment of "Under Defeat HD New Order" and I still play it a lot more often than the original.

[denpanosekai]

Wonder what G.rev is doing after Gunhound EX.

Localizing Mamoru-Kun, looks like.

[EmperorIng]

Wonder what G.rev is doing after Gunhound EX.

Localizing Mamoru-Kun, looks like.

Uh, wow.

The game sold 5,000 copies, allegedly, so I wonder if they can turn that around in the West.

Makes me wonder how Kokuga is selling. I'm still hoping for a western release to convince me to buy a 3DS, or a successful hack of the 3DS' region lock.

[exquisite_torture]

Oh gawd. Mamoru Kun was horrible.

[Zaarock]

wtf, mamoru-kun instead of senko DUO?

[Jeneki]

PS3 or 360 version? I can't read the article at work.

The only other disc-based shmup on PS3 right now is Under Defeat (another G.Rev game), so it's not like Mamoru would have much competition there.

[Skykid]

The game sold 5,000 copies, allegedly

We can expect it to cost upward of $300 in the coming years then.

[HydrogLox]

The game sold 5,000 copies, allegedly, so I wonder if they can turn that around in the West.

In my view Mamoru-Kun has much less "West-appeal" than "Under Defeat HD" - so I think it will do (much) worse than UDHD and likely worse than Mamoru-Kun in Japan. These past few months copies of Deathsmiles for $10/15 were common at Walmart (probably still from the initial print run) - and that title had "Cave-cult-appeal".

Makes me wonder how Kokuga is selling. I'm still hoping for a western release to convince me to buy a 3DS

Frankly localizing Kokuga would have made more sense - but I'm wondering if there are any (financial) obstacles that Nintendo may have created.

wtf, mamoru-kun instead of senko DUO?

"WarTech: Senko No Ronde" already has an established history of not selling well in the "West". Mamoru-Kun has no commercial history in the "West". So I guess no history is better than a bad history.

PS3 or 360 version?

It doesn't say. Given what happened to UDHD, Europe could see either while North America would see only the PS3 version (if at all). Given the low sales in Japan, a Europe PS3-only release available for global distribution seems the most likely option, especially as the PS3 version was the most recent and complete release. As we are now in the end-phase of the 7th console generation the industry seems to assume that the majority of the target market now owns both an Xbox 360 and a PS3.

[broken harbour]

Dumb question:

Is the Japanese release of UDHD in english? Or have an english option? Because I'm having a hard time finding the NA version.

[MauJustice]

It is an Amazon.com exclusive. Might be why you are having trouble finding it.

[denpanosekai]

Is the Japanese release of UDHD in english? Or have an english option? Because I'm having a hard time finding the NA version.

I have the Japanese version and it's entirely playable without any knowledge of the language. The so-called "NA" version wasn't even released in Canada. It was on vgp.ca for a short while, then they pulled it.

[broken harbour]

Is the Japanese release of UDHD in english? Or have an english option? Because I'm having a hard time finding the NA version.

I have the Japanese version and it's entirely playable without any knowledge of the language. The so-called "NA" version wasn't even released in Canada. It was on vgp.ca for a short while, then they pulled it.

Is it possible to navigate the menu's without a translation? To adjust difficulty, controller config, etc?

[stryc9]

Yes.

[drunkninja24]

Dumb question:

Is the Japanese release of UDHD in english? Or have an english option? Because I'm having a hard time finding the NA version.

As others mentioned, the only way to get it new in NA is through Amazon.com

If you don't care about a disc, you can get the game on PSN as well.

[BIOS]

Whats best fir Under Defeat HD Arcade stick or game pad ?

[Pretas]

You will need a control pad with a second stick to make use of the dual analog mode, which is definitely the best way to play the game in New Order.

[antares]

Sorry for asking a question that surely can be found somewhere in this 34 page thread but where is the option to set the screen to 4:3 in tate mode (360 version)? and please don't tell me this game supports widescreen only. g.rev can't be that stupid twice, right? i mean they released strania without 4:3 support, then patched it in after many fan complaints. why would they do the same mistake again?

[rancor]

..and please don't tell me this game supports widescreen only. g.rev can't be that stupid twice, right? i mean they released strania without 4:3 support, then patched it in after many fan complaints. why would they do the same mistake again?

Believe it.

It supports tate, but it wont zoom all of the way to fill the screen. You'll have borders. Looks like shit in my cab, so I just continue to play the Dreamcast version, and try to pretend this one never happened. The X360 port of this game is inferior in almost every way to the Dreamcast GD-ROM.

[Stevas]

"Microsoft no longer charges developers for Xbox 360 title updates, Eurogamer has been told by multiple development sources.

Microsoft made the policy change on the quiet earlier this year after charging developers tens of thousands of dollars to patch their games."

Can't use this excuse no more...

[HydrogLox]

where is the option to set the screen to 4:3 in tate mode (360 version)?

For Xbox 360 only:

I just found the option to play UD in full screen tate Arcade mode.

You still need to be in widescreen from the console menu, but in game go to screen options and select wallpaper 'type clear'. It's a little overscanned, but no borders, and the actual overscan option now zooms the head up display only(!)

You can toggle the HUD with aspect ratio as well.

Edit: The HUD toggle options only seem to be available from the in game pause screen, not the one in the menu before you start...

See also GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)

The X360 port of this game is inferior in almost every way to the Dreamcast GD-ROM.

In retrospect Under Defeat HD should have probably omitted the 3:4 version entirely (i.e. abandoning any attempt at creating an "arcade perfect" version) and focused completely on the 16:9 "New Order" rendition targeting home entertainment setups.

[DocHauser]

I played a bit of the arcade Under Defeat HD recently on one of those Sega Lindbergh cabinets (I think that's what they're called). Not too keen on New Order mode, really.

My main thought after playing it was that it would have been a lot better with Zero Gunner 2 type controls. Maybe it works better on consoles with a dual-stick set-up...

[VideoGameRescue]

I was thinking of reviewing this title. I own it but have not gotten around to playing it (I just started playing Vorpal last night which may or may not end up as a video). I am slightly sad that this version has so many problems since if I am going to review this game, I really, truly, want to do it with a version of it that is not messed up. I think it would be unfair to the game if I did that.

[Pretas]

My main thought after playing it was that it would have been a lot better with Zero Gunner 2 type controls. Maybe it works better on consoles with a dual-stick set-up...

Yes, it definitely does. Like the Xbox 360 arrange modes of Deathsmiles and Guwange, UDHD and Mamoru-kun's HD modes demand to be played with standard dual-analog controllers instead of arcade sticks.