ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

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ancestral-knowledge
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by ancestral-knowledge »

i swear i fu**ing hate you guys.

Here comes the Western Record Holder, who knows more about this game than anyone here will probably in their entire life but of course he is wrong. What does he know compared to a bunch of self-centered arrgonat pricks right? You saw guys playing DDP on youtube and think you know everything about the game. And of course you manage to get off the topic at page 2 already with stupid jokes, sarcasm and bitching about like everything. And it's not like this happens rarely. You guys manage to fu** up every thread that is not a score thread. Of course there are exceptions but you really ruin the threads like "CAVE's Future".


Thank you Prometheus for your detailed information.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Sumez »

Lol what?
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by kernow »

Why would anyone be playing the psx/sat ports now when you could just emulate it anyway? Pointless thread. They probably served their purpose at the time, but things move on.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Sumez »

Because some of us care about playing legal versions of the games, and can't afford a genuine DDP board.

Not trying to turn this thread into a discussion on piracy (please don't), but it's a valid reason for most of us, and you really can't judge people for NOT wanting to break the law.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by kernow »

Because cave are going to knock on your door for playing the rom right. Better shut down GGPO/Supercade as well then.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by gray117 »

ancestral-knowledge wrote:i swear i fu**ing hate you guys.

Here comes the Western Record Holder, who knows more about this game than anyone here will probably in their entire life but of course he is wrong. What does he know compared to a bunch of self-centered arrgonat pricks right? You saw guys playing DDP on youtube and think you know everything about the game. And of course you manage to get off the topic at page 2 already with stupid jokes, sarcasm and bitching about like everything. And it's not like this happens rarely. You guys manage to fu** up every thread that is not a score thread. Of course there are exceptions but you really ruin the threads like "CAVE's Future".


Thank you Prometheus for your detailed information.
? I don't think anyone's saying Prometheus' specific observations are wrong; only that it was harsh to call the ports garbage - especially in context.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Sumez »

kernow wrote:Because cave are going to knock on your door for playing the rom right. Better shut down GGPO/Supercade as well then.
If people cared about having a personal sense of what is wrong or right, instead of basing their actions entirely on what they can get away with, this world would be hell a lot better.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by ChainsawGuitarSP »

kernow wrote:STOP ENJOYING THINGS THE WAY I DON'T
I can't believe I'm actually reading this.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by kernow »

Image

Enough said. I'm sorry I can't take the opinions of anyone with cute anime girl avatars seriously.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

Sumez wrote:
burgerkingdiamond wrote:
Sumez wrote: Well, "arcade port" sort of implies the game code being ported to another system. STV games is more of a copy/paste job. :P
are you saying that the Saturn basically is the same hardware as the SEGA STV arcade hardware? I never knew that.
Are you being sarcastic?
No, I'm not being sarcastic at all.

seriously!
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

Sumez wrote:Because some of us care about playing legal versions of the games, and can't afford a genuine DDP board.

Not trying to turn this thread into a discussion on piracy (please don't), but it's a valid reason for most of us, and you really can't judge people for NOT wanting to break the law.
Oh come on man! You're really that serious? I have the Saturn port and I've been playing it on my cab, screen Tate'd. Basically the best scenario you could have to try to enjoy the port in an accurate arcade setting. And it's just not that good. It looks like DDP, and sounds like it, but it runs too fast and the gameplay suffers ALOT. I do like to have it though strictly for collectors purposes though. And on another note, Batsugun is pretty good for Saturn, so I recommend picking that up.

Back to DDP, it's so much better with MAME. You are not hurting anybody by playing it on MAME. CAVE will not make any more money off DDP. Unless they release it on XBLA or something (not saying that's likely or anything). And if they do then just buy it. I would.

*not meant to start another piracy discussion either, but it's just my natural response to your comment.

I do want a PCB, but for whatever fucking reason the PCB trading gods have decided that it's suddenly worth about 30-40% than it was a year ago.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by ChainsawGuitarSP »

kernow wrote:Image

Enough said. I'm sorry I can't take the opinions of anyone with cute anime girl avatars seriously.
Didn't state an opinion in that post. Also, you are very immature to actually be making that sort of judgment.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Skykid »

ancestral-knowledge wrote:i swear i fu**ing hate you guys.

Here comes the Western Record Holder, who knows more about this game than anyone here will probably in their entire life but of course he is wrong. What does he know compared to a bunch of self-centered arrgonat pricks right? You saw guys playing DDP on youtube and think you know everything about the game. And of course you manage to get off the topic at page 2 already with stupid jokes, sarcasm and bitching about like everything. And it's not like this happens rarely. You guys manage to fu** up every thread that is not a score thread. Of course there are exceptions but you really ruin the threads like "CAVE's Future".


Thank you Prometheus for your detailed information.
For a man with only 17 contributions you know us so well!

You obviously haven't realised that the shmups forum is a collective of generally intelligent individuals being smart-asses to one another. It's the caliber of smart-assery that sets this place apart from other message boards, and amongst the one-upmanship and lack of reasonability there's always some well illustrated debate to get stuck into.

You just gotta roll with it, man, you'll see. :wink:

Sumez wrote:Because some of us care about playing legal versions of the games, and can't afford a genuine DDP board.

Not trying to turn this thread into a discussion on piracy (please don't), but it's a valid reason for most of us, and you really can't judge people for NOT wanting to break the law.
I respect you as a poster for your general politeness and affability, but I'm going to have to appeal to your sense of reason here. There's no way you can ignore Mame as an established platform for playing older arcade games. It's so deep rooted an internet fixture it's almost a matter of course to have it. There are no legal bodies chasing up on it and it's never been recognised as a criminal act by a court conviction. Mame is a freedom of the internet that we should embrace. Those that want to will always buy PCB's or ports anyway (not that it's putting money into the developer's pockets at this stage) because Mame isn't an ideal platform.

Simply put, no Mame no Shmups forum STGT. That would be a criminal act.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Aliquantic »

Skykid wrote:Those that want to will always buy PCB's or ports anyway [...] because Mame isn't an ideal platform.
That part of the sentence feels so funny given the original topic we were discussing a couple pages ago :)
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by ancestral-knowledge »

Skykid wrote: For a man with only 17 contributions you know us so well!

You obviously haven't realised that the shmups forum is a collective of generally intelligent individuals being smart-asses to one another. It's the caliber of smart-assery that sets this place apart from other message boards, and amongst the one-upmanship and lack of reasonability there's always some well illustrated debate to get stuck into.

You just gotta roll with it, man, you'll see. :wink:

Well if this is true then excuse my rudeness and go on raping every thread by nitpicking irrelevant details and quarreling if CAVE is the worst company in the universe etc. And don't forget to quote one sentence from quoted stuff that quoted other stuff, which was quoted in A QUOTE.

RAAAAAGGEEE

:D
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Udderdude »

Hating CAVE is the new cool thing to do. >_>
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by captpain »

Sumez wrote:
kernow wrote:Because cave are going to knock on your door for playing the rom right. Better shut down GGPO/Supercade as well then.
If people cared about having a personal sense of what is wrong or right, instead of basing their actions entirely on what they can get away with, this world would be hell a lot better.
:roll: get over yourself
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Sumez »

burgerkingdiamond wrote: No, I'm not being sarcastic at all.

seriously!
Ok, well now you know then. :) It's why every single STV game has an arcade perfect Saturn version.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Skykid »

Aliquantic wrote:
Skykid wrote:Those that want to will always buy PCB's or ports anyway [...] because Mame isn't an ideal platform.
That part of the sentence feels so funny given the original topic we were discussing a couple pages ago :)
Lol, yes, I suppose given the topic that doesn't quite ring true. But in most cases (not all) I've always found Mame to be a suitable platform for testing, but I've never been quite comfortable with emulation for some reason. It's too fiddly and never feels 100% (although my recent SDLmame is quite smart, thanks Icarus! :o )
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Sumez »

Skykid wrote: I respect you as a poster for your general politeness and affability, but I'm going to have to appeal to your sense of reason here. There's no way you can ignore Mame as an established platform for playing older arcade games. It's so deep rooted an internet fixture it's almost a matter of course to have it. There are no legal bodies chasing up on it and it's never been recognised as a criminal act by a court conviction. Mame is a freedom of the internet that we should embrace. Those that want to will always buy PCB's or ports anyway (not that it's putting money into the developer's pockets at this stage) because Mame isn't an ideal platform.

Simply put, no Mame no Shmups forum STGT. That would be a criminal act.
Good for you, but piracy is piracy whether the companies bother trying to do something about it or not. Maybe if all of Cave's games up until Espgaluda weren't emulated, they wouldn't have hesitated to bring them all (not just Guwange, but also Dangun, Progear, Esprade, DDP, etc.) to XBLA or similar for some guaranteed revenue, who knows?. I know TONS of people who feel it's hilarious that some people buy re-releases of old games, because you can always "just emulate it".
I'm not going to start trying to convince you guys that piracy is wrong, I was just answering a question by stating why some of us prefer playing the ports we own instead of pirating the game, so as I already said, DON'T bother arguing about it.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by PROMETHEUS »

Skykid : the thing with MAME is that if it's improperly configured, if you have the wrong version, or if your PC is in bad shape or generally low performance (most PCs), then yeah it's not gonna be 100%. When I go to some shmupmeet and people want to see some DDP and let me play on some PC, there is just always something wrong, most of the time bad input lag that people don't notice, sometimes just framerate lag which is even worse. But if you have the right MAME and configuration and your PC is in good shape, then the game runs freaking perfect. The only thing that's supposed to be worse than PCB is extremely tiny input or display lag that I can't notice and is probably irrelevant.

Sumez : I am kind of against game piracy too but things aren't just black and white. Remember that Cave has never provided DDP for people outside Japan, so it doesn't make sense to frown on people who refuse to buy Japanese consoles and their ports. Where kernow sort of has a point ("why care about these ports the games are emulated now") is that even if people like you feel they want to buy a legal copy of a game they play, well you can buy the copies and then play on MAME.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by PROMETHEUS »

Sumez wrote:I know TONS of people who feel it's hilarious that some people buy re-releases of old games, because you can always "just emulate it".
Seems to me like the most correct stance. Cave games are an exception because they were never released in other versions than PCBs which are way overpriced. But it's hilarious that companies manage to make a lot of money by re-releasing their games time and time again for different systems when they can just be emulated. What makes you think that it's more ok for companies to milk people's wallets with absurdities like this, than it is to play emulated versions of their games after having bought one legal copy ?
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Skykid »

PROMETHEUS wrote:Skykid : the thing with MAME is that if it's improperly configured, if you have the wrong version, or if your PC is in bad shape or generally low performance (most PCs), then yeah it's not gonna be 100%. When I go to some shmupmeet and people want to see some DDP and let me play on some PC, there is just always something wrong, most of the time bad input lag that people don't notice, sometimes just framerate lag which is even worse. But if you have the right MAME and configuration and your PC is in good shape, then the game runs freaking perfect. The only thing that's supposed to be worse than PCB is extremely tiny input or display lag that I can't notice and is probably irrelevant.
Yes, that's kind of what I was getting at. You need to be pretty au fait with both the language of the PC (probably the easy bit) and all the different Mame versions and the one that's best for you (not so cut and dry.)
In most cases I've rarely had a Mame setup on a PC, Laptop or console (like the Xbox) that wasn't without niggling imperfections. As a collector though Mame was only a means to an end to try out certain games, I only ever play it seriously for STGT if I don't own it already.
But if you're serious about getting a perfect setup (as I know you are) I'm sure it can be achieved easily enough. :wink:
As I mentioned, the current mame that Icarus bestowed on me is far better than my last one, which I used for years unknowing it was basically rubbish.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by ancestral-knowledge »

I have one question for you Prometheus:

Let's assume CAVE would release Dodonpachi for the XBOX360 tomorrow and it's an arcade perfect port of the game like let's say Futari. It would have an XBOX mode with better graphics, an arrange mode and an arcade mode plus a replay/training option and tons of the neat stuff we are used to today. Would you buy one copy?
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Sumez »

I said, I don't want to discuss it. If you guys can't respect that I want to respect the law and play my games legit, fine with me, but the fact that you're trying to convince me that I'm totally off track with that approach is just bizarre.
I agree that there's no black and white, but once you start exploiting grayzones there's no telling where one ends and the next begins, get my point?
And I didn't frown upon anyone here for pirating the games, in fact people frowned upon me for preferring to play the games legit. Like I said, that's bizarre to me.

PROMETHEUS wrote:What makes you think that it's more ok for companies to milk people's wallets with absurdities like this, than it is to play emulated versions of their games after having bought one legal copy ?
I've been known to buy games legally so I can play them emulated, that stuff is fine with me, but this is the last time I admitted to that, cause what I do in said gray zone is my own business.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

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ancestral-knowledge wrote:I have one question for you Prometheus:

Let's assume CAVE would release Dodonpachi for the XBOX360 tomorrow and it's an arcade perfect port of the game like let's say Futari. It would have an XBOX mode with better graphics, an arrange mode and an arcade mode plus a replay/training option and tons of the neat stuff we are used to today. Would you buy one copy?
...

everyone would
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Deca »

Skykid wrote:As I mentioned, the current mame that Icarus bestowed on me is far better than my last one, which I used for years unknowing it was basically rubbish.
I'm very curious about how mame can be optimized, what do I need to do to get it set up well?
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Aliquantic »

captpain wrote:
ancestral-knowledge wrote:I have one question for you Prometheus:

Let's assume CAVE would release Dodonpachi for the XBOX360 tomorrow and it's an arcade perfect port of the game like let's say Futari. It would have an XBOX mode with better graphics, an arrange mode and an arcade mode plus a replay/training option and tons of the neat stuff we are used to today. Would you buy one copy?
...

everyone would
And some months ago Cave were considering putting a DDP port in their adventure game (which turned out to be Instant Brain), as yet another mini-game... we'll find out if they've actually done it soon enough :)
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

captpain wrote:
ancestral-knowledge wrote:I have one question for you Prometheus:

Let's assume CAVE would release Dodonpachi for the XBOX360 tomorrow and it's an arcade perfect port of the game like let's say Futari. It would have an XBOX mode with better graphics, an arrange mode and an arcade mode plus a replay/training option and tons of the neat stuff we are used to today. Would you buy one copy?
...

everyone would
Seriously.
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Re: ProM's "DDP PSX and Saturn ports are garbage" rant !

Post by Skykid »

Deca wrote:
Skykid wrote:As I mentioned, the current mame that Icarus bestowed on me is far better than my last one, which I used for years unknowing it was basically rubbish.
I'm very curious about how mame can be optimized, what do I need to do to get it set up well?
God I don't know, not my field.

Talked me through it on MSN, seemed all very complicated and took about an hour.

Runs nice though.
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