Gradius Discussion Thread

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Evilmaxwar
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Re: Gradius Discussion Thread

Post by Evilmaxwar »

bcass wrote:That X68K rendition sounds like MIDI (in fact, it almost certainly is some sort of MIDI if you can route the sound through different sound devices). There's less complexity to some parts of the X68K versions. The PCE version is just an enhancement of the PCB version. The PCB version is almost certainly not MIDI, hence the other versions sounding like rough approximations rather than being accurate note for note. I used to play arcade Gradius II religiously (it was one of my first 1CCs back when it first came out in the arcades) so I can instantly recognise when approximations are being used for note data instead of the original data.
Yes it is "midi". X68k has its internal synth but is also midi compatible. Arcade has only its internal synths chips and there is no interfacing possible, therefore no midi. Many vg composers at the time preferred to work with midi if possible and take advantage of the various advanced synthesizers available through midi.

Most of these professional video game music composers used roland sound modules as their tool to work their compositions on. There is a special configuration on some x68k games that lets you chose which sound card to use from a list. Those choices are usually cards for which the composer/arranger made a specific version of the music and among them you usually have one sound card that the composer used as his favorite one. If you have this same sound card and you configure the game to use it, you hear the music exactly the same way as the composer/arranger who made it. By using roland sound modules you are usually using the same device as the composer and you are listening to the music as it was really meant.

For example, when Robert prince composed the music for DooM, he was using a Roland Sc-55. Therefore playing DooM with any other sound card is only an approximation.

I know that the X68k port of Gradius 2 has a soundtrack arranged specifically for one of the roland sound card. I am not sure which one exactly yet, i think its either the Mt-32 or CM-32L, maybe even CM-32P, and maybe even something else, Japaneses are known to have used some of the weirder cards for games ( by opposition to western devs. who nearly always made things with either Mt-32 or Sound canvas).

The main thing anyway is that im not a gradius arcade purist so the concept of one version being an original and the rest being copies is not relevant to me. I am not as familiar as you with the arcade ost and it is possible that as you say some parts have more complexity to them. The pce is certainly an improvement over the arcade but then those early redbooks are usually a midi version recorded through a synth/sampler and then mastered for a more "professional" finish.

If my favorite version is not the arcade original its no big deal for me, as long as the arranged midi version i am hearing is itself of original quality ( as meant by the composer). Im still curious about something, was the x68k version arranged by the original arcade composer or someone else? Should not be too hard to find out.

*edited couple typos
Last edited by Evilmaxwar on Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bcass
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Re: Gradius Discussion Thread

Post by bcass »

Evilmaxwar wrote:Im still curious about something, was the x68k version arranged by the original arcade composer or someone else? Should not be too hard to find out.
The vgmdb.net site lists the arcade Gradius II composers as Seiichi Fukami, Motoaki Furukawa, Ken-ichi Matsubara and Shinji Tasaka:

http://vgmdb.net/album/276

The closest to X68K versions being released on CD are MIDI Power X68000 Collection ver.1.0 and MIDI Power Pro 7 ~Gradius~:

http://vgmdb.net/album/86
http://vgmdb.net/album/1276

But these CDs list arrangers, not original composers, which leads me to believe that the Gradius II PCB did not use MIDI and (as can be seen from the credits) these MIDI arrangements were not made by any of the original composers.
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Evilmaxwar
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Re: Gradius Discussion Thread

Post by Evilmaxwar »

bcass wrote:
Evilmaxwar wrote:Im still curious about something, was the x68k version arranged by the original arcade composer or someone else? Should not be too hard to find out.
The vgmdb.net site lists the arcade Gradius II composers as Seiichi Fukami, Motoaki Furukawa, Ken-ichi Matsubara and Shinji Tasaka:

http://vgmdb.net/album/276

The closest to X68K versions being released on CD are MIDI Power X68000 Collection ver.1.0 and MIDI Power Pro 7 ~Gradius~:

http://vgmdb.net/album/86
http://vgmdb.net/album/1276

But these CDs list arrangers, not original composers, which leads me to believe that the Gradius II PCB did not use MIDI and (as can be seen from the credits) these MIDI arrangements were not made by any of the original composers.
Cool, thanks for the lead, they were actually quite a bunch of people working on this. Now i want to listen to these cds :P The last one even comes with a floppy with midis for the roland sc-88pro, thats too awesome :D

Anyway arcade PCBs likely do not use midi as midi is nothing but an interfacing standard for musical information. This has absolutely no use in the context of an arcade PCB. Only advantage i can see of making arcade sound hardware midi compatible is to give the composer access to standard editing software or hardware to work on the composition. I cannot tell if this sometimes happened like that or not, another good question.
dieKatze88
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Re: Someone convince me to keep Gradius III

Post by dieKatze88 »

Seahawk wrote:
Sumez wrote:The Parodius games are way easier than Gradius III. Or at least tend to be more fair.
Is there some trick to playing Parodius games? It seems that no matter how I play them the games eventually go crazy with insane bullet and enemy speeds.
For example on Parodius Da, I can playthrough the first two levels with pretty much no power ups, while constantly hitting the "?!" power down. By stage 4 the game is burying me with bullets. And with only two extends I don't last very long =/.
I'm going to go with "Please play Parodius Da! start to finish and say that again with a straight face"

really though, the better Parodius games are a lot more fair, Gokujyou Parodius isn't a cakewalk, but anyone can 1CC it if they practice it just a little. More or less the same for Talkative (PS1 version only please -_-) and Sexy Parodius.

I own all 3 arcade boards and an Otomedius PCB, so I've compared them to the ports far too much. Play the arcade games when you can, the video emulation is "inaccurate" in mame because the alpha channel doesn't work 100% correctly yet. Gokujyou is 100% video accurate except for the flames at the beginning of the Moai Head ship.

A good strategy with Parodius is when the game is wailing on you, wail back. All of them have a TON of slowdown intentionally coded in for that reason, and with 4 options and some kind of laser, you should have no problems beating the game's speed down so you can handle the barrage of bullshit it throws at you.
Seahawk wrote:
Ruldra wrote:
Seahawk wrote:If the cube seed is random how did they figure it out? If the PS2 version is any indication, there might be over 20 different cube patterns.
Look at the top right of the picture.
Image

Under the 2P score you can see two lines, "SEED" and "REMAIN". These two lines are not visible in the game. My guess is that they're running a debug board, this could even be an official Konami event. Seed is just the random seed, remain I would guess is how many cubes are left. You get 100 cubes for normal difficulty and up, and ~35 or so on easy, so that counter is useless really.

The PS2 port gives you two settings to adjust the cube attack with, your ship speed and something called level.
The cube pattern is still random even if you pick the same level.
So with that known and thanks to this picture I think that adjusting the level is directly adjusting the rank value for the game. So rank ranges from 0-32 for Gradius III.

Thanks to this picture the cube attack mechanic becomes a little clearer. The cubes enter the screen on one of five lines. I tested this on my own Gradius III run and it was like clockwork. As the attack progresses the cubes start to vary on their entry points, but by the time they do you're either dead or safe, so that doesn't matter.
The Jpn text in the pic is also supporting that idea.

.....wtf am I doing? I beat this game already, why I am concerned with this >_>;.
And I thought I was a Gradius nerd. Seriously this is the coolest Gradius related thing I've seen in a long fucking time, and Konamistyle gave me free shipping on Otomedius X when it eventually ships. (I have the smaller LE, so it is heavier -> Win)

That website also has a very low resolution gameplay video of the first 3 levels of Otomedius Excellent, which is kinda nice if you don't mind spoilers.
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Sumez
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Re: Someone convince me to keep Gradius III

Post by Sumez »

dieKatze88 wrote:
Seahawk wrote: I'm going to go with "Please play Parodius Da! start to finish and say that again with a straight face"
really though, the better Parodius games are a lot more fair, Gokujyou Parodius isn't a cakewalk, but anyone can 1CC it if they practice it just a little. More or less the same for Talkative (PS1 version only please -_-) and Sexy Parodius.
The first Parodius (Da) would be the one I've played the least. I have it in the SS Deluxe Pack, but honestly I've only played a bit of the SNES version, I admit when I said they are much easier than the Gradius games I was talking about the other three games.
Other than that, Oshaberi ("talkative") Parodius isn't exclusive to PS1, I have it on Saturn, and it was originally a SNES game, although there's a bunch of changes and one or two new stages in the Saturn/PS1 version (most of them pretty enjoyable, but I miss some of the stuff from the SNES one). And yeah, all the voice over stuff is in the SNES game too.
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Herr Schatten
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Re: Gradius Discussion Thread

Post by Herr Schatten »

None of the Parodius games is as frustrating as Gradius III.

Parodius Da! is probably the one that's balanced best and gives the most satisfying overall challenge. Therefore it's my favourite of the bunch. It's not easy to 1CC, but it's definitely doable.
Gokujyou Parodius has brutal rank, but if you learn to manage it a bit, again, the game becomes doable.
Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius is actually ridiculously easy to 1CC if you use the right character.
Sexy Parodius is quite easy, too, the only real problems are meeting the mission goal in the penultimate level and the special stage.

Most importantly, the kind of bullshit level design that's abundant in Gradius III (and IV) is nowhere to be found in the Parodius games, and it's actually possible to recover from death in most, if not all, spots.
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Sumez
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Re: Gradius Discussion Thread

Post by Sumez »

But most importantly, they have more penguins. Sexy Parodius wins because of S&M penguins.
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