Hellsinker English patch RELEASED!

[gs68]

I'm using the version I snagged off of Groupees, by the way.

[nasty_wolverine]

I'm using the version I snagged off of Groupees, by the way.

It will happen to any D3D9 program that doesnt deal with mode switching btw. Think context lost in terms on opengl. Its a silent failure, that means everything will run as if there is no problem but the graphics will be garbled.

[mauve]

Any plans to get the standalone patch up yet mauve?

Have my hands full as it is. Relax. It'll happen when it happens. The only changes are some typo corrections and fixing the numpad inversion anyway. Very low priority compared to everything else. (you could always just grab the groupees version and support us for bringing this to you guys~)

I'm not sure if this is a problem with my OS (Win7), hardware (Radeon 6570M), or the game itself, but if I'm running the game fullscreen and Windows switches focus to something else, the game becomes unplayable because if I try to switch focus back to the game, all I get is a non-fullscreened window with nothing but grey in the window. The rest of the game is just fine (sound and game internals are still operational), but I'm forced to exit at this point.

This is a general d3d/driver problem, and not really something I can do anything about. Basically when a fullscreen program loses graphical context, it loses all texture data in memory. It can still keep going, but it doesn't have anything loaded anymore. There is, afaik, no way to fix this the way things are. My recommendation would be to use some sort of window resizing application on the windowed version instead. (I'd build it in if I could but, yeah, not happening sorry.)

[BPzeBanshee]

So to clarify: it's a Hellsinker core problem with its video rendering?

I've seen other programs that use Direct3D go out of fullscreen and in just fine when forced by popup windows, so my conclusion is that it's something to do with the developer and/or some legacy component he's using, rather than a IMO cheap shot "oh its D3D9 thing nobody but MS can fix it". I remember seeing the same thing happening on Radio Zonde once, but I didn't think Hellsinker still used d3drm.dll for anything otherwise a lot more people would've had issues running it in 7.

[AntiFritz]

So to clarify: it's a Hellsinker core problem with its video rendering?

I've seen other programs that use Direct3D go out of fullscreen and in just fine when forced by popup windows, so my conclusion is that it's something to do with the developer and/or some legacy component he's using, rather than a IMO cheap shot "oh its D3D9 thing nobody but MS can fix it". I remember seeing the same thing happening on Radio Zonde once, but I didn't think Hellsinker still used d3drm.dll for anything otherwise a lot more people would've had issues running it in 7.

You're correct, only radio zonde and hellsinker version 0.95 required the d3drm.dll file to work.

[mauve]

It is a problem with Hellsinker, correct. When the video context is lost, memory contents are dropped. The game would need to replace them. It doesn't. It's a common problem, most games have stuff in place to resolve this issue. This one doesn't. Simple as that.

I don't think anyone said "nobody but MS can fix it". I never said that, either. But there will not be a fix happening for this version, sorry.

[BPzeBanshee]

Cool beans, just wanted to be sure. I can see why you won't fix it: that kind of issue is not something you simply hack into working order through disassembly.

[BulletMagnet]

Workaround someone suggested to me that apparently works for them but makes zero sense to me:
- http://sanagimaru.nobody.jp/notice.html Hit up the old official site, download the direct3d9 build there, copy it to the game dir and run it. Game should start up in Japanese. (note: it WILL eventually crash because it is lacking some Japanese files.)
- Exit and run the English version. I am told this works and makes up for compatibility problems. Really.

DLed the Groupees bundle last night and tried this but couldn't get it to work...I can get the d9 version to run after moving it to the same folder as the English one, but after quitting and trying the latter it gives me the same error message as when I try starting it up by itself. Any ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?

[mauve]

Honestly I'm not sure what's going on, personally. Dude said it worked for him. I haven't been able to figure out WHY it did. Like I said, makes no sense to me.

I have a strong hunch that it's just not loading directsound or something. But I don't know, I can't replicate it. Sorry I'm trying!

I also suspect it's a filesystem issue and it's having trouble finding the game files, which is why the startup menu doesn't activate. Also not sure what to say about that.

[BulletMagnet]

If it helps, I get three separate error messages whenever I try to open the thing, and they refer to some manner of "EAccessViolation" and "EInvalidPointer." Wish I was more literate/helpful when it came to this sort of thing...

[mauve]

If it helps, I get three separate error messages whenever I try to open the thing, and they refer to some manner of "EAccessViolation" and "EInvalidPointer." Wish I was more literate/helpful when it came to this sort of thing...

Yeah, it's the same thing I got from the other guy. (edit: specifically, these boxes. All of these are caused by referencing null data, so it failed to load something up.)

It's trying to open some data and failing to do so.

WHY it's failing, I really don't know. It can't seem to find its own stuff. (Maybe create a shortcut and tell it to run in the game directory? I don't know.)

[gs68]

after you pressing alt + f4 on certain boss, instead of program exiting, it display some text message... and after you read it, the program will exit

Which boss? The only instance I know of pre-exit text is when you complete The Way of All Flesh, read all of the Strategy Recorder, and then exit to get the sound test: (spoilers)

Tried every boss except for the one at the end of The Great Majority and the three choices of final bosses.

[mauve]

as far as i know that's nonsense

[Captain]

If it helps, I get three separate error messages whenever I try to open the thing, and they refer to some manner of "EAccessViolation" and "EInvalidPointer." Wish I was more literate/helpful when it came to this sort of thing...

Don't mess with GARLAND.

[mauve]

And bundle's over. Thanks to everyone who picked it up or supported it.

Have no idea what's up from here on out but we'll figure it out.

Also I will make a serious crack at the Win8 thing seriously but I don't know when.

[BulletMagnet]

Also I will make a serious crack at the Win8 thing seriously but I don't know when.

Any and all effort expended is appreciated.

[gs68]

Garland: The trippiest and most awesome lost-and-found service ever made.

[shmuppyLove]

hnnnnnnnnng this game

How do I play omg I can't even distinguish between bullets and items

[nasty_wolverine]

hnnnnnnnnng this game

How do I play omg I can't even distinguish between bullets and items

its not that hard. bullets are mostly brown, cyan and red(lasers only). bullets and items are pretty differentiated so its just a bit of getting used to. I would give it atleast a week to get used to the game mechanics and graphics. it gets a lot fun after that.

[gs68]

Does anyone have an ALL clear .rep file using Deadliar? I want to read his dialogue (the kind that pops up during stages, not between stages) but I hate playing as Deadliar.

[Zaarock]

Does anyone have an ALL clear .rep file using Deadliar? I want to read his dialogue (the kind that pops up during stages, not between stages) but I hate playing as Deadliar.

The japanese scoreboard has downloadable replays (the top score is with deadliar). There are some missing scores but it's the best source for most things..
Deadliar is difficult to use but has high scoring potential, seems like an alright balance. Characters having very different optimal routes can be confusing though :p

edit: I also only used infernal sabbath until I started getting into the scoring system

[gs68]

Thanks.

Personally I just stick to Kagura w/Infernal Sabbath and let loose. Other characters seem daunting to learn how to use properly.

[nasty_wolverine]

Thanks.

Personally I just stick to Kagura w/Infernal Sabbath and let loose. Other characters seem daunting to learn how to use properly.

Not really that great a character for scoring. even kagura xanthel fares better. moon cradle is the best in my opinion. takes a little getting used to but awesome after that. does ridiculous damage and has a good scoring potential too. xanthel is just badass but awkward to use.

tbh using infernal sabbath takes all the fun out of hellsinker and just turns it into a normal STG. just shoot everything and dont die. try using kagura mooncradle (xanthel for badassness) , fossilmaiden or minogame. deadliar is tricky, so i would avoid it. The fun of hellsinker is pointblanking enemies, grazing lasers, dismantling bosses a piece at a time, gaining immortality bonuses, earning breakthroughs while keeping the rank pumped up. try watching a high level replay of the game. you will get what i mean.

[gs68]

Meh, I have fun with the "boring" character. I'll switch to other characters when I goddamn feel like it.

[BPzeBanshee]

Could someone please explain to me how it is that Deadliar is apparently a tricky ship to use? I actually thought it was the easiest ship for me to use quite frankly. Minogame's timing requirements I find difficult to get used to and Kagura's various forms seem like one clusterfuck to learn after the other. Am I missing something?

[Captain]

minogame has invincibility outside of bombs.
kagura is weird.
fossil is hard as fuck.
deadliar is balanced

although if you bother to actually use all of his moves, he's incredibly op.

[mauve]

I thought Fossil was easiest, but that's me.

Dead Liar was really difficult for me which was a problem because I needed to test all the dialogue bits he has in every stage, including alternate possibilities. (test version had forced invincibility built in, heh. I think some of the trailer footage was taken with it... and no I didn't make the trailer itself)

[nasty_wolverine]

Deadliar's shot powers down pretty fast, although not as fast as kagura xanthel but recovery is a bit slower than xanthel. His options 2 throw attacks are a bit confusing and slightly difficult to use. but to make up for that his shot has moderate to high power (if using penetrating attack), the options do slow but steady damage, and his bomb gives him a split second invincibility which is useful for positioning, and also one of the more powerful of the other characters (I think second to xanthel point blank laser bomb). easy to learn but difficult to master.

Fossil maiden is a overall a really cool but complicated character. tapping shot gives good fire power, holding down actually increases range and power. also has a fast tap bullet clearing attack which increase spirits while doing heavy damage. also 360 rotate to shoot down baddies in any given direction. the subweapon area attack is weak at first but moderately powered after holding down a bit, even more powerful if she is inside the attack radius. you can take out a lot of the bosses easy by just placing it on top and just concentrating on dodging bullets. also the shot+sub dual sword gives double edged benefits (theres a pun in there somewhere but its too lame), use yellow for score, purple for taking out almost anything. it has 2 bomb modes, rapid tapping gives you invincibility and holding down lets position the bomb vertically, being pretty damaging. again easy to learn but difficult to master. what you ll forget most of the time is to tap shot for bullet clearing laser and instead of activating invincibility using bomb or vice versa.

minogame just has too many damn attacks. tap shot which is low powered but increases spirits quite alot. the charge melee is powerful but takes time to charge. sub level is damaging but short lasting. sub level 2 red chasing lasers of doom is really powerful screen clearing but takes a bit of time to charge. shot + sub level 1 does good damage but pretty useless other wise. shot + sub level 2 is damaging and good but also gives you invincibility while holding down shot inside. the bomb is ridiculously powerful but not concentrated at all. most of the time a beginner will be using the invincibility trick or red homing lasers to clear screens. difficult to learn completely, difficult to master completely. however if you just stick to using few of the attacks, easiest character to get to stage 4.

kagura moon cradle is just awesome. never run of shot, point blank is the name of the game. always recharging sub missiles with powerful and long lasting damage. the hold attack of the sub is a little awkward but does good lasting damage. the bomb is a little low powered. overall moderately difficult to learn but easy to master.

kagura infernal sabbath is great for survival. shot function like a normal shmup ship, but luna goes down way too fast. hold attack does good damage but positioning is a bit tricky in certain places. good damaging bomb. overall easy character. IMHO takes the fun out of hellsinker. but hey, play it however you feel like.

Now, kagura xanthel is just plane awesome and awkward at the sametime. your shot runs out and you have to wait for it to reload. thats what puts most people off. but the a full load of shot is as damaging as any of the weaker bombs. a good tactic is to hold shot and point blank, completely empty luna, then release the charge attack, and the short period between reloads use the sub to deal a bit more damage. point blanking a level 2 sub is as powerful as a moderate powered bomb. and the full level 5 bomb point blanked can take out some bosses in a go. very over powered, but with great power comes great resource management. extremely difficult to get used to the shot running out, but once you got that covered, way to fun to use.

never really used, kagura epliptic chariot, feels way to under powered to use.

For beginners I would recommend deadliar, minogame, or kagura infernal sabbath, because the are easy to use or have good tricks for survival. advanced players definitely should use either fossilmaiden or kagura moon cradle both have similar scoring potential, though fossilmaiden has a higher score. deadliar and minogame have the highest score potential but very tricky to use for scoring, never could get used to them. kagura xanthel is if you want more challenge out of hellsinker, has the highest kill score, watch the replay, it will change the way you see the game.

and why did i write this long post. i just felt like it.

[MathU]

Does Minogame really have one of the highest scoring potentials? I'm really not so sure about that. A Minogame player has the second highest score right now after a Dead Liar player, but that may simply be due to selection bias. Minogame cannot take advantage of a particular trick using Mistletoes or Kagura's armor for full collection of spirit crystals at the end of the Shrine of Farewell; the most you can usually get is about 3/4 of them. This is a huge difference in potential earnings when accessing the shrine late in the game compared to the other three character selections with such item-gathering devices.

[Captain]

Deadliar's shot powers down pretty fast, although not as fast as kagura xanthel but recovery is a bit slower than xanthel. His options 2 throw attacks are a bit confusing and slightly difficult to use. but to make up for that his shot has moderate to high power (if using penetrating attack), the options do slow but steady damage, and his bomb gives him a split second invincibility which is useful for positioning, and also one of the more powerful of the other characters (I think second to xanthel point blank laser bomb). easy to learn but difficult to master.[/size]

Are you aware that he has a freaking charge attack?