Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

This is the main shmups forum. Chat about shmups in here - keep it on-topic please!
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17646
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by Skykid »

MintyTheCat wrote:
Skykid wrote:The best thing to do is be in business for ourselves. If an archaic educational system didn't stifle creativity and march you into an office job in which you get to waste your life earning money for some already rich bastard, it could be a very enterprising world.

If a kid wants to make videogames I see no purpose in spending his youth being force fed an out of date curriculum when he could learn programming during the prime of his mental capacity, and then fulfil his dream by growing up as a highly desirable expert in the field. It may be a hard job, but most people end up doing things they have no passion for just to have an income. That makes for a radically boring life.
I agree, it seems that education over in the UK losing its value ever more - how many "A Stars" do we see each year. When I was younger it was literally impossible to get an "A" in anything :D

The more I work the more I want to work for myself.

I learned to program as a kid and it has given me a career and an education but I do agree, kids are better at picking things up than adults who have often already shut their minds down.

I do enjoy my job and what's more I use the skills I have to work on my own projects - I have a game on the go at the moment if any of you know any pixel artists.
The reason children today are creatively stifled is because of the influences of unregulated media from an early age. This is far more prevalent in the USA than it is in other countries (who have regulations), but regardless, increase in media marketing aimed at kids destroys their ability to think beyond anything except brand allegiance.
If you're interested in knowing how it works (and if you ever have kids, how corporations will effectively make your life very difficult), I highly recommend watching this film, it's a good one:

http://www.youtube.com/user/futureprodu ... uUU7cjfcdM

If that's too much of your time, then this 20 minute talk by Sir Ken Robinson is extremely worthwhile (Called "Do Schools Kill Creativity?") He's a pretty funny guy too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13888
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by BulletMagnet »

Glad as I am to see that the tangent discussion has remained civil, this sort of thing belongs in OT, so try to keep it related to the original topic here.
User avatar
Demetori
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:25 am
Location: A Cave in New Zealand

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by Demetori »

Does them having to work so hard really help the company much? At first I'm sure it would but over time these guys must get burnt out.
Google Translate tells me that Unlimited Mode "is for people who like festivals."
User avatar
chempop
Posts: 3461
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:44 am
Location: Western-MA USA

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by chempop »

If that's too much of your time, then this 20 minute talk by Sir Ken Robinson is extremely worthwhile (Called "Do Schools Kill Creativity?") He's a pretty funny guy too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
I've seen this, it's probably the greatest thing on the Internet about the current state of the education system - Sir Ken Robinson is my hero!
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
User avatar
MintyTheCat
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 am
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by MintyTheCat »

rtw wrote:Reading all this makes me glad I'm part of the scandinavian workforce.

Empowering your employees is actually considered a good thing.
Yes indeed, I have Swedish and Norwegian friends and from what I have experienced they receive a pretty good all round education and can rely on decent services.

I think that the UK could learn a lot from Scandinavian countries.
More Bromances = safer people
User avatar
MintyTheCat
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 am
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by MintyTheCat »

Skykid wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
Skykid wrote:The best thing to do is be in business for ourselves. If an archaic educational system didn't stifle creativity and march you into an office job in which you get to waste your life earning money for some already rich bastard, it could be a very enterprising world.

If a kid wants to make videogames I see no purpose in spending his youth being force fed an out of date curriculum when he could learn programming during the prime of his mental capacity, and then fulfil his dream by growing up as a highly desirable expert in the field. It may be a hard job, but most people end up doing things they have no passion for just to have an income. That makes for a radically boring life.
I agree, it seems that education over in the UK losing its value ever more - how many "A Stars" do we see each year. When I was younger it was literally impossible to get an "A" in anything :D

The more I work the more I want to work for myself.

I learned to program as a kid and it has given me a career and an education but I do agree, kids are better at picking things up than adults who have often already shut their minds down.

I do enjoy my job and what's more I use the skills I have to work on my own projects - I have a game on the go at the moment if any of you know any pixel artists.
The reason children today are creatively stifled is because of the influences of unregulated media from an early age. This is far more prevalent in the USA than it is in other countries (who have regulations), but regardless, increase in media marketing aimed at kids destroys their ability to think beyond anything except brand allegiance.
If you're interested in knowing how it works (and if you ever have kids, how corporations will effectively make your life very difficult), I highly recommend watching this film, it's a good one:

http://www.youtube.com/user/futureprodu ... uUU7cjfcdM

If that's too much of your time, then this 20 minute talk by Sir Ken Robinson is extremely worthwhile (Called "Do Schools Kill Creativity?") He's a pretty funny guy too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
Many thanks, I shall watch these videos.

I am fairly old school myself (you'd never have guessed would you :D ) and I tend to concentrate on the fundamentals.
As a kid I remember spending a lot of time drawing, writing, reading and mathematics.
I learned English grammar too - which is pretty much disregarded these days in schools.
Having learnt English fairly well I was able to learn Spanish, Japanese and German.
All this came from a good education system and I feel that children today have got something that is much less than what I received.

Creativity is fundamental in many areas of problem solving as the individual has to decide "which" and "how". I find it very frustrating when people see creativity only in the artistic sense.

I remember as a child that we had perhaps only an hour and a half of children's TV and that was all in the evenings. You would do your homework when you got home then watch some programmes that were interesting to yourself (Blue Peter, Mysterious Cities of Gold, The Girl from Tomorrow...) and then continue with your homework.

We also tended to use libraries more often and to read a great deal as we simply didn't have the Internet as it is today.

I think it was a better time to grow up in and there was far less pressure.
It is terrible to find that children and indeed adult become nothing more than drones and can only make choices based on what someone on the marketing team feels they are allowed to have.

Whilst I'm on the topic: avoid McDonalds, Starbucks and all those other chains as they destroy local businesses.
More Bromances = safer people
User avatar
MintyTheCat
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 am
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by MintyTheCat »

Demetori wrote:Does them having to work so hard really help the company much? At first I'm sure it would but over time these guys must get burnt out.
Speaking as an Embedded Software Engineer:

Burnt out is the last thing anyone needs.
A good manager will make sure that this doesn't happen to you and act as a sort of filter/fire-wall from unnecessary chores whilst making sure that your targets are realistic.

From what I have seen, once a developer burns out they don't get over it quickly and in fact nobody wins, not the developer nor the company.

It really comes down to company culture: Management who are terrible tend to push and push and then give absolutely nothing in return. asada mentioned that when he first started his new job that there was no direction - this is pretty bad but sadly happens far too often. I've seen it much worse with graduates who enter the workplace without any ideas about how things should be done and then they just end up getting frustrated.

Good management plans well and is receptive to its developers and testers.
If you think about a coherently regulated system then you have to have useful feedback and indeed you need to use the information given to you through this channel.

The worst companies will lay more and more pressure on a Developer. They tend to do this for a number of reasons.

I truely find the "something for nothing" attitude that these companies foster as being offensive and it's highly indicative that they do not respect the individual or the skills that they have developed and that are utilised by the company on a daily basis.

There will always be bad companies but there are lots of good companies too.
It's just a shame when your country's economy suffers and the opportunities start to dwindle as many people end up being stuck in a job that they hate.

Again think to the long term and concentrate on doing things that make you happy to counter balance all the trash that a bad company will want to throw at you.

Also, to make sure you understand the game, read those HR, Occupational Psychology and Management books so that you have an idea as to what they are likely to try to throw at you. The HR staff usually have a set of methods to put pressure on people I find but if you can beat them at their own game, they tend to give you a wide birth :D
More Bromances = safer people
gray117
Posts: 1233
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:19 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by gray117 »

People can appear to work as long as you want them to... and truly, as a boss, you'll probably make their lives about work...

...But they'll only actually work as hard as they want to, let alone the important issue of quality.



In a general western social context; a pride in quality of work usually engenders a sense of power, even entitlement - I wonder if Japanese culture does not respect the 'creator' of such work in a way, I also wonder if game developers are thought of as somehow significantly lesser/niche/marginal in social terms - this could certainly impact their self esteem and lead to an element of down treading?

I certainly think there's something a bit more complex at work here than straight exploitation - its almost masochistic.
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17646
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by Skykid »

chempop wrote:
If that's too much of your time, then this 20 minute talk by Sir Ken Robinson is extremely worthwhile (Called "Do Schools Kill Creativity?") He's a pretty funny guy too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
I've seen this, it's probably the greatest thing on the Internet about the current state of the education system - Sir Ken Robinson is my hero!
Yeah, he's terrific. Funny too, it's almost stand-up - a brilliant way of relaxing the audience to make them receptive to your points. Smart guy, I can't help but agree with the logic.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
MintyTheCat
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 am
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by MintyTheCat »

Japanese thinking tends to engender a more humble attitude.
When you start anything in Japan you start at the bottom. This includes the arts and everything else. It's pretty old school.

I think much of asada's manner is due to his culture in that Japanese people don't tend to wade in dogma but do in fact aim to improve over time. It is nearly impossible to do this if you are overly arrogant and believe that you some how do not need to walk the paces.

I know Japanese people who really dislike this of course and some of them refuse to live in Japan but they remain Japanese. I remember a friend who had to stop herself from bowing all the time to me. She was higher up the kendo chain than I was but outside of the dojo she was like a different person.

It is a bit like when you use the formal language to denote respect in Japanese and German, often people are amazed that you first of all learnt it and secondly that you use it to address them. You can sidestep this however as many many things you are let off for as your are a foreigner :D

I think the best bosses really know how to work with their employees to make things happen. For most of us there really is no point in trying to threaten us as we are more often than not smarter than the boss :D
More Bromances = safer people
User avatar
bcass
Posts: 2645
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:10 am

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by bcass »

MintyTheCat wrote:Eventually the UK will wake up and so will Japan. You cannot expect to compete against China and India as things stand and there will only ever be a balance if both these countries reassess themselves for the long term.
So true. There's a monumental lack of foresight right now in the UK. A grotesque undercurrent of apathy and selfishness. It's actually quite disturbing. The UK is such a staid place to be right now. Anything good that happens here always happens in spite of the system. So much possibility and talent wasted because there is no long-term plan. No vision from those who can change things.

On a chearier note, I used to work as a developer for one of the biggest Japanese companies, and it was truly the best working environment I've ever worked in. Broke my heart when I had to leave.
User avatar
MintyTheCat
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 am
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by MintyTheCat »

bcass wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:Eventually the UK will wake up and so will Japan. You cannot expect to compete against China and India as things stand and there will only ever be a balance if both these countries reassess themselves for the long term.
So true. There's a monumental lack of foresight right now in the UK. A grotesque undercurrent of apathy and selfishness. It's actually quite disturbing. The UK is such a staid place to be right now. Anything good that happens here always happens in spite of the system. So much possibility and talent wasted because there is no long-term plan. No vision from those who can change things.

On a chearier note, I used to work as a developer for one of the biggest Japanese companies, and it was truly the best working environment I've ever worked in. Broke my heart when I had to leave.
Is there any chance you can go back to work there? How's your Japanese?

I most certainly detect the meanness when I am back there - especially on the Underground and the transport 'system' - read 'hobby'.
I just feel that the systems don't work well and there's a lot of none thinking going on.
The other thing that irritates me is that they keep on changing the meaning of words so that they no longer mean what they should mean. For example: I had a disagreement with a lady last year over the name of her department - "Rapid Response"... When she'd finished giving me all her silliness I asked her "so you clearly are incapable of doing anything 'rapidly' given your turn around of five months or whatever and you simply cannot put a number of anything". To which I laughed at her as you so often have to do in the UK as it's the only thing you can do given the conditions.

Many of the system seem counter intuitive to me and it certainly isn't like that in Germany.
I think it's important to promote 'good thinking'. :)
More Bromances = safer people
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17646
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by Skykid »

Pointless debate. England's shit and everyone know's it.

The main benefit of being in the UK is that everyone is so slack, underpaid and fed up, no-one gives a shit about enforcement. You can get away with just about anything.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
MintyTheCat
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 am
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by MintyTheCat »

Skykid wrote:Pointless debate. England's shit and everyone know's it.

The main benefit of being in the UK is that everyone is so slack, underpaid and fed up, no-one gives a shit about enforcement. You can get away with just about anything.
:D
More Bromances = safer people
User avatar
Udderdude
Posts: 6266
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:55 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by Udderdude »

As a game dev myself I feel like I can add a different perspective on this than the replies I've seen so far. Sorry for the late reply but I didn't even know this thread was here until now. :P
When I first joined Cave my job was to test completed games. This was all day, everyday. People thought I was lucky because not only could I play a lot of games, but I also made my living doing it. However, I only felt agony. Now I don't even play the games I make because of this agonizing past experience - never mind the games of others. I’ve made many games in my career here at Cave, but honestly I’ve played very few of them. Since I began working at this company, I don’t have any videogames in my house.
This is definitely true, a lot of people don't realize that "Game tester" is basically a crappy job. His reaction is a bit extreme, though. It's very difficult to make a game and then play it with the intention of seeing it from an outside observer would, as well. After working very hard and testing a game constantly, it can lead to burnout and not wanting to play anything for awhile. If you're constantly stressed out, even playing a game can start to feel like a job that you want to quit.
I think if I were to play the games that I make I would only feel regret for the things that I could have or should have done. I’m far too critical of the way things turn out. Its better to turn this energy into creating new games rather than dwelling on what I could have done with games I have finished.
This is definitely a strong feeling. It's especially bad when you have someone else who asks you to finish the game by certian deadline and there's some things you never get to do that you wanted to. Myself, I had to quit my job to give myself enough time and energy to make my games how I really wanted them. Not everyone has that luxury, though. It's risky!
I played my first video game in Kindergarten. ... After I played it so much and it became too easy I began to make my own rules such as “don't jump more than twice”. With those new rules I felt as if I had created a new game.
I think this is common in people who eventually become game developers, coming up with new sets of rules. Myself personally I was drawing ideas and drawings of games in 1st grade.
User avatar
Siren2011
Banned User
Posts: 793
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:51 pm
Location: The sky on my television set.

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by Siren2011 »

Myself personally I was drawing ideas and drawings of games in 1st grade.
Ha. Same here, and exactly around that age too. I also used to line all my Power Ranger action figures up and come up with movie scenarios, plan out the camera angles, write the script, etc using them as my "puppets" if you will.

I came up with the idea for a Power Rangers movie before it even happened. When I received word that one was indeed being released in theaters, I freaked out. "Daddy, they stole my idea!"

I also had my fair share of daydreaming about Ducktales for NES waiting for me at home while I was in class. I was such a terrible student. lol. But I had a seemingly limitless imagination...ah, good times. Times long gone...
"Too kawaii to live, too sugoi to die. Trapped in a moe~ existence"
User avatar
ancestral-knowledge
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:44 am

Re: Cave Shooting History Translation - Makoto Asada

Post by ancestral-knowledge »

I don't know but i feel i have a pretty good job as a software developer at my company.

Friday 21st octobre i had an outstanding day :

09:15 : Arrival at work (15 min drive so i get up at 08:45) .
09:15 - 10:00 : Checking news sites on FF and answering mail. mostly private Bullshit mail. Opening /b/, ebay, shmupsforum, arcadeotaku and surf. Note: these tabs stay open all day and get refreshedd every now and then.
10:00 - 12:00 : work some shit off i want to. I do this while listening to my Cowon S9 audio player over big headphones from Teufel. I like Death Metal, Classical, Trance and some other genres. Every now and then i get a cup of coffee (but only 2 a day at max) and grab a banana or a kiwi because fruits are everywhere laid out in our company and for free. Water comes free to so i drink that. i never eat breakfast. I always stuff myself up with bananas from work.
12:00 - 12:30 : I talk with my coworkers about everything. New movie, new cool technology that could help us working. One guy says i should join Call of Duty.
12:30 - 14:00 : We play Call of Duty 4 via LAN at our company. Yes you have not misread that. Awesome game with so much going on. The server is always on and we have currently 20 people playing. I am very bad at this game and get snipered off everytime until i ragequit.
14:00 - 16:30 : I do the rest of my work and i do it in a blaze. C++ and .NET is fun. With the new functionality of C# 4.0 i try to use some of the new cool statements for my code i read of in the .NET developer magazine.
16:30 - 17:00 : i read some interesting articles in the developer magazines that lie here everywhere. I discover a nice tool that will help me with my coding. Since it costs about 230 US $ (Visual Assist X) I fill out a formal request my boss has to sign. I go to his office with that request. Later we develop an email that everyone who currently develops C++ should look into this and consider getting it because it speeds up your coding and enforces good coding practises.
17:00 - 18:00 : I could go home now but i decide to stay in order to restructure my code and redesign parts of the program which will help us when things will change in the source code. I upload everything to SVN.
18:00 - 18:20 : I login and give a brief report in our system what i have done today. I describe everything and write down 8 hours. I start to argue with a coworker that our intern system is kinda sucky and we should do something about it.

I do not get an astronomical pay but i like my job and as long as i meet the deadline noone gives a fuck what i do or whether i come to the office at all or play call of duty there. I have my computer set up so i can work from home but the guys at the office are really funny so i aways drive there. Currently i am thinking when to spend my holidays. For starters i get 30 paid days off and since i just started in april here and i have not taken anything of it yet i think i just take the whole december off. Our company forces us to take our holidays to prevent people from overworking so you won't have ANY benefit from working too hard or not taking your holiday time.

Maybe to you it sounds like a fairytale but this is was my friday. Sometimes i work for 11 hours straight when i am interested to program an efficient algorithm or some parts of the code are just intersting or need a refurbishing but normally i keep it cool and try to stay fresh in the head.
Post Reply