Impressions of ZanacXZanac and Gradius V....

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:24 am

Talk about some killer apps!!

First, Gradius V. I LOVE this game, it's a great example of a mix of old-school shmup gameplay (which I tend to favor) and next gen graphics. You can really see Treasure's influence on this game with the gorgeous and booming explosions! I love the different type of weapon arrays (I am having quite a hard time with the option-swivel on the second array) and the fact that you can recover your options after you die.

And this game is HARD, but not hard in the Gradius III/bang your head against a wall sense, but in a fun sense that keeps you coming back for more.

The only gripe I have against this game is that the Vic Viper starts out SO slow that it feels like you have to speed up at least 3 times to be able to move around enough. But overall, an excellent shmup for the PS2!

Now on to ZanacXZanac-Zanac Neo is simply the best Compile game that I have ever played. The power ups are similar to the original, but with 3 different ships to choose from (I think there's at least one that's unlockable) there's plenty of variety. And yes, there are ten stages and each one is long, but with that good old Compile addictiveness, time flys when you're havin' fun!!

Most of the comments I've read about the graphics in this game rate them as either average or sub-par, but I think they're very beautiful-the cloud stage in particular is stunning, and the explosions, while slightly pixilated are very colorful.

So to sum; get both of these games if you have an import or modded PS2.
It's quite a shame, IMO, that Compile isn't around anymore to do any next gen sequels to their Aleste series. And, while most would probably rather see Treasure do a sequel to Ikaruga, I'd personally love to see them do some more old-school stuff.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:41 am

Gradius V was a very pleasant suprise. Definitely my favorite Gradius. Gaiden not being too far behind it.

Gaiden definitely has the best "last boss" fight. There's just something incredibly cool about the last guy of gaiden. How it talks to you and such.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:59 am

landshark wrote: Gaiden definitely has the best "last boss" fight. There's just something incredibly cool about the last guy of gaiden. How it talks to you and such.

Actually, I would have said that Moai Dimension has the better smack-talk:

"Do you think you can beat me with THAT? LOSER!"

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:17 am

Kiken wrote:
landshark wrote: Gaiden definitely has the best "last boss" fight. There's just something incredibly cool about the last guy of gaiden. How it talks to you and such.
Actually, I would have said that Moai Dimension has the better smack-talk:

"Do you think you can beat me with THAT? LOSER!"

Yeah, that Moai boss has cool smack talk. It's one of the many reasons I love Gradius Gaiden.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:22 am

Gradius Gaiden is so classy, the first time I heard the voices and played the levels and fought the bosses, I knew I had to make it my fave horizontal Shmup ever. Among the greatest lines, is the one that says:

"UFO coming!"

Which is a coincidence, because my nick had been created before I heard it. MWWHWHAHHAHAHAAH!!!!!!

I get so pumped up from the third level onward

.

crithit5000 · Post by **crithit5000** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:45 am

Before this turns into a Gaiden vs. V funfest...

The only gripe I have against this game is that the Vic Viper starts out SO slow that it feels like you have to speed up at least 3 times to be able to move around enough.

Play some older Gradius games, you'll think V's Vic Viper is greased lightning compared to some of the older game's initial speed setting.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:06 am

I agree. Gradius Gaiden has the most balanced "speed" issue in the whole Gradius series (Except maybe by V, which I havent played)

Now, Zanac Neo... it's the best Shmup on PSX by far. I love Gradius Gaiden, but Zanac Neo is just 3 times more awesome

And who knows me, knows how hard it's for me to admit that, but I am beggining to like Zanac Neo so much.... it's now tied with Aleste 2 as my fav shmup ever.... maybe it's even better than Aleste 2....

Post by **Ghegs** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:35 am

dave4shmups wrote: The only gripe I have against this game is that the Vic Viper starts out SO slow that it feels like you have to speed up at least 3 times to be able to move around enough.

I play through most of the game with just one speed-up. I take more only for Stage 7.

Minzoku · Post by **Minzoku** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:03 am

Kiken wrote:
landshark wrote: Gaiden definitely has the best "last boss" fight. There's just something incredibly cool about the last guy of gaiden. How it talks to you and such.
Actually, I would have said that Moai Dimension has the better smack-talk:

"Do you think you can beat me with THAT? LOSER!"

I like V's voice acting better. It doesn't sound like the same guy doing all the parts

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:09 am

Minzoku wrote:
Kiken wrote:
landshark wrote: Gaiden definitely has the best "last boss" fight. There's just something incredibly cool about the last guy of gaiden. How it talks to you and such.
Actually, I would have said that Moai Dimension has the better smack-talk:

"Do you think you can beat me with THAT? LOSER!"
I like V's voice acting better. It doesn't sound like the same guy doing all the parts

I like the voice acting better in V too. Is that David Lucas doing the cutscene voice acting?

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:47 am

I am a big Compile fan, but never played Zanac back then. My expectations for Zanac/Zanac Neo were very high.

However, I didn't enjoy Neo as other Compile shmups... It has too rules. I have to gamble for boxes, plus I have to use just my subweapon until I get all the red lander I need... And obviously try to destroy anything on screen in order to keep a high chain.

For some reason, I don't get any results with the Knife-Edge or the Scar-Face. The Hammer-Duke with weapon 6 rules. I've tried the FC-custom but I didn't have a easier time.

I don't know... maybe it's just the fact that I always get to the last boss, and waste my remaining lives there. Or maybe it's the fact that I never use the charge shots... Yeah, maybe it's that. Too many things to consider, too many mechanics. I had a more joyful time with Power Strike II or Super Aleste.

I played the original Zanac and that too is quite hard. I guess better than MSX Aleste, but still not my slice of bread. I'm more the Gun-Nac / Guardian Legend type.

About Gradius V... It rocks. Now I want Treasure to do Salamander III for Konami!!

theevilfunkster · Post by **theevilfunkster** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:59 pm

gradius v is a masterpiece. treasure have done it again! my gaiden is still in the post so ive not had the chance to play it yet. i sure hope its as good as people have been saying

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:02 pm

Turrican wrote:I am a big Compile fan, but never played Zanac back then. My expectations for Zanac/Zanac Neo were very high.

However, I didn't enjoy Neo as other Compile shmups... It has too rules. I have to gamble for boxes, plus I have to use just my subweapon until I get all the red lander I need... And obviously try to destroy anything on screen in order to keep a high chain.

For some reason, I don't get any results with the Knife-Edge or the Scar-Face. The Hammer-Duke with weapon 6 rules. I've tried the FC-custom but I didn't have a easier time.

I don't know... maybe it's just the fact that I always get to the last boss, and waste my remaining lives there. Or maybe it's the fact that I never use the charge shots... Yeah, maybe it's that. Too many things to consider, too many mechanics. I had a more joyful time with Power Strike II or Super Aleste.

I played the original Zanac and that too is quite hard. I guess better than MSX Aleste, but still not my slice of bread. I'm more the Gun-Nac / Guardian Legend type.

About Gradius V... It rocks. Now I want Treasure to do Salamander III for Konami!!

Zanac Neo, Aleste 1, and Zanac have an AI system that varies depending on the weapon. I personally love that system since it does make the game a bit more challenging. However, I like adjusting the difficulty in games like Blazing Lazers too, though those games are definatly a bit easier than Aleste 1 or the original Zanac. I like the MSX Aleste better than the Master System Power Strike/Aleste. Power Strike/Aleste Master System is good, but the enemy patterns are a bit more cheap and the awesome city stage is missing.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:13 pm

So the FC Custom is the ship that's unlockable?

The only Compile shmup I don't care for is Super Aleste (aka Space Megaforce). The level design is totally out of order, in terms of difficulty. And I don't like the stages that much. In some of them, you just have this boss that flys around, and the stage ends when you destroy it. And then there's that STUPID rock-maze stage which feels completely out of place.

At any rate, I'll probably have less issues with the speed in Gradius V once I play it with a decent D-Pad-ie, once that Pad I ordered from Play Asia arrives. It's still an awesome game, though.

BTW, anyone else have a lot of trouble getting used to the option-swivel in weapon array # 2?

Post by **Shatterhand** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:40 pm

When you guys say the "original Zanac", do you mean the REAL original MSX one, or the NES one?

Zanac MSX was the 1st one, then they ported it and made enhacements and different level designs on NES, and then this NES version was ported back again to the MSX under the name of Zanac EX (And it has a few enhacements over the NES version, like the ship morphing and stuff).

The original Zanac on MSX its around the most difficult shmups made by Compile. (Guardic and Final Justice are other 2 examples of difficult shmups from then - I never managed to finished either one).

Zanac NES and Zanac EX are really easy compared to the 1st Zanac. I think it's a big shame that Compile didn't put all Zanac versions on Zanac X Zanac. (Zanac, Zanac 2, Zanac NES and Zanac EX)

When Aleste was released, it was the game that took Zanac out of the "best shmup on MSX" position. But to be fair, I think Zanac aged a lot better than Aleste, and today I think Zanac still is a superior game, in spite of its inferior graphics.

And Aleste 2 is just awesome.

Turrican, most of those mechanics on Zanac Neo are just for score. If you don't play for score you still have one of the finest shmups ever. I only "gamble" for boxes when I get a powerup and I am invicible. I rarely ever remember to use the charge, and a friend of mine use it like a bomb , which I think it's fair enough. And many times I forget about the chain, and just go shoot stuff without worring too much.

I use the Scar-Face most of time ,with Weapon 5, which is just like Weapon 5 from previous Zanac games, and my favourite weapon of all Compile game

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:58 pm

Ghegs wrote: I play through most of the game with just one speed-up. I take more only for Stage 7.

me too! except i would have to tack on "...from credit to credit" at the end of the first sentence. i can get farther in Gradius Gaiden on one credit (still only 3/4 through stage 4 though).

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:14 pm

Shatterhand wrote:When you guys say the "original Zanac", do you mean the REAL original MSX one, or the NES one?

Zanac MSX was the 1st one, then they ported it and made enhacements and different level designs on NES, and then this NES version was ported back again to the MSX under the name of Zanac EX (And it has a few enhacements over the NES version, like the ship morphing and stuff).

The original Zanac on MSX its around the most difficult shmups made by Compile. (Guardic and Final Justice are other 2 examples of difficult shmups from then - I never managed to finished either one).

Zanac NES and Zanac EX are really easy compared to the 1st Zanac. I think it's a big shame that Compile didn't put all Zanac versions on Zanac X Zanac. (Zanac, Zanac 2, Zanac NES and Zanac EX)

When Aleste was released, it was the game that took Zanac out of the "best shmup on MSX" position. But to be fair, I think Zanac aged a lot better than Aleste, and today I think Zanac still is a superior game, in spite of its inferior graphics.

And Aleste 2 is just awesome.

Turrican, most of those mechanics on Zanac Neo are just for score. If you don't play for score you still have one of the finest shmups ever. I only "gamble" for boxes when I get a powerup and I am invicible. I rarely ever remember to use the charge, and a friend of mine use it like a bomb , which I think it's fair enough. And many times I forget about the chain, and just go shoot stuff without worring too much.

I use the Scar-Face most of time ,with Weapon 5, which is just like Weapon 5 from previous Zanac games, and my favourite weapon of all Compile game

Sorry, that was my bad. I know the early Zanac versions are a bit different, but they all have the AI system. I personally like the EX MSX version the best, but the NES version is a very close second. IMO, Zanac 2 is the worst of them. I didn't really care for that one much.

BTW, the NES and MSX EX versions actually seemed a bit harder to me than the MSX one. The MSX one has less enemies on screen. Reguadless of how hard they are, do think the EX and NES Zanacs are a bit more intense and fun to play than the original MSX Zanac, though the MSX Zanac is extremely good too.

I agree with you about Zanac X Zanac. The NES version is a fine version of the game, but I fail to see point of putting multiple versions of it in Zanac X Zanac when there are other versions of Zanac, including the slightly superior EX version.

Oh yeah, there's that mysterious Game Boy Zanac listed on Gamefaqs that may not even exist.

BTW, I definatly plan to get Zanac X Zanac for PSX. If worst comes to worst, I may even get that $120 dollar one selling on ebay. I should check to see if that seller has a brick and mortor store since the location is within the state I live in. However, I'm probably going to wait until my birthday for that game.

incognoscente · Post by **incognoscente** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:40 am

BrianC wrote:I like the voice acting better in V too. Is that David Lucas doing the cutscene voice acting?

It's Eric Kelso, not Steve Blum (aka David Lucas).
Eric Kelso was the English-language voices of Fuku-san and Gui Zhang in Shenmue. I've also seen his name in reference to Virtua Fighter 4 (Jacky?).

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:52 am

I played both games, and I like them both.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:00 am

incognoscente wrote:
BrianC wrote:I like the voice acting better in V too. Is that David Lucas doing the cutscene voice acting?
It's Eric Kelso, not Steve Blum (aka David Lucas).
Eric Kelso was the English-language voices of Fuku-san and Gui Zhang in Shenmue. I've also seen his name in reference to Virtua Fighter 4 (Jacky?).

ahh. I'm usually pretty good at noticing Steven Blum, but I guess I have gotten rusty after watching so much anime in subtitles. He's still one my favorite dub VAs, though.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:24 am

Kiken wrote:
landshark wrote: Gaiden definitely has the best "last boss" fight. There's just something incredibly cool about the last guy of gaiden. How it talks to you and such.
Actually, I would have said that Moai Dimension has the better smack-talk:

"Do you think you can beat me with THAT? LOSER!"

Dave4Shmups - sorry to hijack your thread.

I just love how the last guy constantly mocks you in Gaiden. Not just at the start.

The Moia boss is cool. I just wish they didn't tag "loser" onto it as it sounds kind of cheesy. Something along the lines of "Do you think you can beat me with THAT!? You will be crushed!" or "I'll kill you!" would have been better to me.

Vulcan Venture's level 2 voice was pretty cool too "You will never return alive!" as the cool music queues in.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:48 pm

BrianC wrote:
Sorry, that was my bad. I know the early Zanac versions are a bit different, but they all have the AI system. I personally like the EX MSX version the best, but the NES version is a very close second. IMO, Zanac 2 is the worst of them. I didn't really care for that one much.

BTW, the NES and MSX EX versions actually seemed a bit harder to me than the MSX one. The MSX one has less enemies on screen. Reguadless of how hard they are, do think the EX and NES Zanacs are a bit more intense and fun to play than the original MSX Zanac, though the MSX Zanac is extremely good too.

I agree with you about Zanac X Zanac. The NES version is a fine version of the game, but I fail to see point of putting multiple versions of it in Zanac X Zanac when there are other versions of Zanac, including the slightly superior EX version.

Oh yeah, there's that mysterious Game Boy Zanac listed on Gamefaqs that may not even exist.

BTW, I definatly plan to get Zanac X Zanac for PSX. If worst comes to worst, I may even get that $120 dollar one selling on ebay. I should check to see if that seller has a brick and mortor store since the location is within the state I live in. However, I'm probably going to wait until my birthday for that game.

no need to be "sorry"

. I know many people refer to Zanac NES as the "original" Zanac and I just wanted to know of what Zanac you were talking about.

But you really find the 1st one to be easier than NES and EX? I remember I 1cced Zanac EX really quickly (Around my 4th or 5th go), and Zanac NES I 1cced in my 1st go (With lots of experience from previous Zanac EX

), While the 1st Zanac took me years to be beaten (I only finished it a year or 2 AFTER finishing EX), and still give me troubles today.

And I think EX really is the best of them all. Zanac 2 is just a remake of the 1st Zanac with different levels. (I think Compile actually called it "Zanac: 2nd version") . It's more a "Zanac 1.1" than Zanac 2

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:27 pm

From what I played of the MSX one it seemed easier in some ways, but maybe if I play a bit more I might find it harder. Maybe I was just fooled by the more enemies on screen in the other versions. However, I do find all versions of Zanac to be harder than Blazing Lazers, at least at the default difficulty.

From what I heard, there is also a Zanac 3, but I heard it's the worst of the Zanac games and not even designed by Compile. This one site had some sort of file for it, but it wasn't playable on an emulator.

Zanac X Zanac sounds like an awesome game with a good variety of selectable ships and modes. It's also the only Compile shooter with a 2 player mode.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:13 pm

Zanac 3 is not oficial. I once was fooled to believe in that too. It's actually a hack of the game that make it start in the last level, with a diferent layout and more enemies on screen (Which makes the game slowdown). I dunno what happens when you beat the 1st level, as I never managed to do it

.

It also doesn't have the "Compile" logo, only the Ponyca logo. Zanac was a trademark of Pony, not Compile, so it's easy to believe that it was a sequel not developed by Compile.

Funny how Zanac Neo DO start in the last level of Zanac, huh?

Oh, and don't ask me how Compile got the rights to make Zanac X Zanac.

There's also Zanac Metallica, which is another hack of Zanac. This one is really weird, all the colors are changed, and nearly everything you destroy drops a "warp", and whenever you get a warp, the colors CHANGE again.

Besides this, it's pretty much the same Zanac.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:27 am

landshark wrote:The Moia boss is cool. I just wish they didn't tag "loser" onto it as it sounds kind of cheesy. Something along the lines of "Do you think you can beat me with THAT!? You will be crushed!" or "I'll kill you!" would have been better to me.

I have to disagree, the "loser" part is what makes the whole thing. Not only does it completely catch you off guard the first time, but it's hilarious.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:21 pm

I haven't searched any review archives for Gradius V, but just wondering if I'm the only one who found Gradius V's hit detection to be quite frustrating?

I mean the hit detection seems so inconsistent I have no idea when I'm going to get hit or die. It feels like half the time bullets and lasers are just passing thru my ship like magic.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:57 pm

tehkao wrote:I haven't searched any review archives for Gradius V, but just wondering if I'm the only one who found Gradius V's hit detection to be quite frustrating?

I mean the hit detection seems so inconsistent I have no idea when I'm going to get hit or die. It feels like half the time bullets and lasers are just passing thru my ship like magic.

It does take some getting used to and I really don't know exactly where it is. I think it's the cockpit area.

On level 5's boss I just guess and usually end up doing ok. I'm always freaked out on that boss because of the mystery-box.

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:44 am

The hit-box is the cockpit- the darker colored area. I actually found it to be far less troublesome than in most Gradius games, where it is much bigger but still doesn't fit the size of the ship.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:20 am

Will a U.S Metal Gear Solid disc detect a Gradius Gaiden save when Psycho Mantis tells you what sort of games you like to play? I have always been curious about this as a few years ago when I borrowed it and played it through I had no Konami saves of any kind on my mem card. My friend said an FIFA save he had of course was detected. I think. "You like to play..soccer." Come to think of it does the GC MGS disc detect any saves?

Sorry if this is a bit OT.

Think I will pic up Gaiden then will work my way to V.

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:43 pm

Dylan1CC wrote:Come to think of it does the GC MGS disc detect any saves?

Yup. I think both Mario Sunshine and Eternal Darkness were mentioned by name.

shmups.system11.org

Impressions of ZanacXZanac and Gradius V....

Impressions of ZanacXZanac and Gradius V....

Re: Impressions of ZanacXZanac and Gradius V....

Re: Impressions of ZanacXZanac and Gradius V....