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 Post subject: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:21 pm 


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So, About a year ago I heard about this game-genre called shmups! I soon learned that shmup is short for shot em ups. I found out that shmups could be horizontal or vertical scrolling 2d shoter. no problem...but then I got cofused. Some how it seemed like everthing with a spaceship could be a shmup... Asteroids was a shmup? But the background doesn't scroll... Your ship turns...It doesn't straife(I might miss-spelled that) And then I games similar to astroids called shmups...twinstickshoters are sometime called shmups... It seems to me that people play around with the word shmup a little to much and I seem to be the only one who cares... And I not real even a hardcore shmup-player... So what is a shmup real...I would like to claim that a shmup is a vertical/horzontal 2d shoter where your ship(or any kind of other object) straifes and you allways(kinda) shot in the same. Not the same direction as your moving... Is it just me or is this what a shmup should be? I find it wrong to call Astroids or mad tv shmups! I find it questionable to call fantazy zone, forgotten worlds and Section Z shmups. Still I accept Psyvariar and Ikaruga(even thought I haven't played it) as shmups! Am I wrong?

MVHH


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:05 pm 


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My eyes.
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:13 pm 



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A Shmup is a game made by Cave, ZUN or that Ikaruga company


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:19 pm 



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A miserable little pile of bullets? :D
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:35 pm 


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Well, you also have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRxCdHWZdZ0
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:38 pm 


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harrihaffi wrote:
Some how it seemed like everthing with a spaceship could be a shmup...


You are nearly right but this line should read everything with spaceships, insects or helicopters.

And loli if it's Japanese.


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:45 pm 


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According to google images, this here is a shmup:

Image

And this is a shump:

Image

Learn the difference, it could save your life.


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:45 pm 


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was that all one sentence? :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:54 pm 


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There are bad threads... and then there's THIS :roll:
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:59 pm 


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moozooh wrote:
A miserable little pile of bullets? :D


Crap, beat me to it.
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:25 pm 


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There is is this game called Moo-She-Ham-Saw-Ma Foo-Tarty

I hear it is a shmup.
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:55 pm 


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shmup
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lol


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:04 pm 


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Translated to something that isn't completely mind-melting:

harrihaffi wrote:
About a year ago, I heard about this genre of games called shmups. I soon learned that shmup is short for shoot-em-up. I found out that shmups could be horizontally or vertically scrolling 2D shooters, but after that I got confused. Somehow it seemed like everything with a spaceship could be a shmup. Was Asteroids a shmup? But the background doesn't scroll. Also, your ship turns instead of strafing (I might have misspelled that [Note: You did]). Then I play games similar to Asteroids that are also called shmups. Twin stick shooters are sometimes called shmups as well.

It seems to me that people play around with the word shmup a little too much, and I seem to be the only one who cares. I'm not really even a hardcore shmup player.

So what is a shmup, really? I would like to claim [Pet Peeve: Don't tell us you'd like to claim it - just claim it. Nobody's going to stop you from claiming anything; we're just going to make fun of you later.] that a shmup is a vertically or horizontally scrolling 2D shooter where your ship (or any kind of other object) strafes and you (almost) always shoot in the same direction, though not necessarily the same direction that you're moving. Is it just me or is this what a shmup should be? I find it wrong to call Asteroids or Mad TV shmups [I don't think anyone here will disagree that Mad TV isn't a shmup]! I find it questionable to call Fantazy Zone, Forgotten Worlds, and Section Z shmups. However, I accept Psyvariar and Ikaruga (even thought I haven't played it) as shmups! Am I wrong?


harrihaffi wrote:
Am I wrong?


Yes.
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:24 pm 


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mesh control wrote:


one of the comments:

"tommy lee jones plays video games"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:08 pm 


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IIRC when I first joined this forum I made a topic that asked the same question which was answered with lots of rolling eyes and quips about opening cans of worms :)

shmup is a loose term which everyone here defines in their own way, what we can agree on though is that everyone defines as a shmup at the very least as vertical and horizontal forced scrolling shooters, which has an avatar (eg ship, man, duck or penis) that is flying. Ill also add in proto shmups like space invaders ad galaga as a pure shmup. Other then that wiki is your friend
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:06 pm 


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TrevHead (TVR) wrote:
IIRC when I first joined this forum I made a topic that asked the same question which was answered with lots of rolling eyes and quips about opening cans of worms :)

shmup is a loose term which everyone here defines in their own way, what we can agree on though is that everyone defines as a shmup at the very least as vertical and horizontal forced scrolling shooters, which has an avatar (eg ship, man, duck or penis) that is flying. Ill also add in proto shmups like space invaders ad galaga as a pure shmup. Other then that wiki is your friend


Thank you for your response.

So I guess this means we need a new word to discribe the genre I like...

MVHH


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:09 pm 


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harrihaffi wrote:
So I guess this means we need a new word to discribe the genre I like...

Actually you don't need anything new. :)
Stick with your own definition and just label everything else as a "borderliner".

Enjoy the games, that's all that matters.
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:17 pm 


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Kollision wrote:
harrihaffi wrote:
So I guess this means we need a new word to discribe the genre I like...

Actually you don't need anything new. :)
Stick with your own definition and just label everything else as a "borderliner".

Enjoy the games, that's all that matters.


You might be right! I don't really like new stuff...So it would be pretty stupid to make something new myself, now wouldn't if?
Put I don't know I think it's because I'm geting older and finding it less fun to play and more fun to talk about games...and talking about something that doesn't have a name or even worse has a name that can mean anything can get very confusing...

MVHH


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:25 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:37 pm 


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Ater checking a few Wikipedia articles, here is the best definition I can come up with:

A game in which the protagonist doesn't fight on foot, that is focused on dodging impacts and in turn firing to take down enemies.

I'm curious to hear if anyone can come up with any exceptions to that (Ikari Warriors, Pocky & Rocky etc fall under Run 'n' Gun).
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:06 pm 


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Annoyboy wrote:
TrevHead (TVR) wrote:
has an avatar (eg ship, man, duck or penis) that is flying.

The player-controlled avatar in Moon Patrol doesn't fly. Or is that an autoscrolling run 'n' gun? :P

At any rate, I think the definition should include a mention of avoiding enemy fire while controlling an object that doesn't have platform style control.

Edit: Do people consider games such as Ikari Warriors and Shock Troopers to be shmups, or something else?


Ahhh...well I wouldn't say flying is a rule...cause I would like to call gun.smoke a shmup and your playing as a cowboy runing on the ground on that one to...but unlike moon Patrol...the view is from a birds prespective... so you move in all 4 directions and not just 2...but I didn't mention this earlier...Then again if moon patrol isn't a shmup, what genre is it? A platformer...kinda but not really... Maybe We don't need a new name for shmups...maybe we need a name for every game that is mistaken for a shmup...

MVHH


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:07 pm 


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Shooter: a game in which you blow stuff up/kill things, using guns, missiles, "lasers" (i.e. plasma shots, because actual laser weapons are almost never used) and similar projectiles.

When you start going into sub-genres like shmup, run & gun, rail shooter etc. then you get arguments over what is-what isn't, in the same tedious way you try to break from "rock" music as the all-encompasser then have an argument over what is or isn't "post-hardcore".

Everyone has their own definitions regarding what qualifies and will argue it to the ends of the Earth. I'm sure someone will even manage to disagree over my definition of "shooter" up there! It's fun while civilised, but like any discussion, will rarely stay that way.


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:09 pm 


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You were quoting me while I was completely rewriting my post. XD
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:19 pm 


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Annoyboy wrote:
You were quoting me while I was completely rewriting my post. XD


It seems so...anyhow you're still talk about flying...or should I rewrite my reply?

MVHH


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:29 pm 


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Annoyboy wrote:
I'm curious to hear if anyone can come up with any exceptions to that (Ikari Warriors, Pocky & Rocky etc fall under Run 'n' Gun).


Guwange?


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:32 pm 


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bah I should'nt of opened my big mouth, can of worms opened :)

The real question should be what are shmups but its it possible to describe them without someone shooting holes in your definition.

Next time ill stick with: You control an avatar that shoots and dodges the enemy.

EDIT: Nope thats wrong as theres shmups that dont even shoot like ZUN's shoot the bullet and dodge em ups

So this should do it: You control an avatar that dodges the enemy
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:34 pm 


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Quote:
So this should do it: You control an avatar that dodges the enemy


Super Mario Bros.? :P LOL

It seems the real problem with giving a definition for what a shmup is, is the confusion/disagreement about what types (static, on-rails, run 'n' gun etc) belong as a sub-genre and what should be considered a totally different genre altogether.

Anyway, I'm bowing out of this topic while it's still friendly.
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:53 pm 


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Annoyboy wrote:
Quote:
So this should do it: You control an avatar that dodges the enemy


Super Mario Bros.? :P LOL

It seems the real problem with giving a definition for what a shmup is, is the confusion/disagreement about what types (static, on-rails, run 'n' gun etc) belong as a sub-genre and what should be considered a totally different genre altogether.

Anyway, I'm bowing out of this topic while it's still friendly.


Sounds kinda resonable...Subgenres and some games that should be called crossovers like thunder force 2...
So shmups are games like 1942 and Xevious...(Don't have a good example for a horizontal shmup...a pretty basic one R-type and Gladius are to complex) Ikaruga and psyvariar are games that are shumps but try to be diffrent...
And games like moon patrol, shock troopers, Commando, Smash tv and Mercs are games that belong somewhere in the shoter genre...that shmups are a subgenre of...

MVHH


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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:47 pm 


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Shumps.
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 Post subject: Re: What is a shmup!!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:50 pm 


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What is shmup!? Baby don't snipe me, don't snipe me, no mo'...


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