Pirate shmup-o's (split from Fast Striker)

[TrevHead (TVR)]

So, can you make good art and make it freely available? Of course! But can you make good art that also requires significant time and money investments and still give it away? Possible, but unlikely

Exactly, and programming is very time intensive both in making the games and in learning how to do so in the first place. The same can be applied to any artist who is at the top of their particular craft. I doubt we would see classical music players of the same caliber of Sarah Chang because her parents probably wouldnt of bothered fostering the talent in such a forcefull way if it was just some side hobby to keep the kid busy untill she went to univercity

[TrevHead (TVR)]

LOL man why is everyone so butthurt about it...all I hear is

RABLE RABLE RABLE RABLE RABLE RABLE

Im not sure who your saying is but hurt but if you mean the the anti pirating sentiments. Its quite understanderble. Unlike mainstream games, Shmups and other niche games work with tighter budgets and require the goodwill of its small community to buy their stuff and not pirate it. If it wasnt for all these butthurt folk here who put their money where their mouth is, there wouldnt be any shmups in the first place.

[emphatic]

Shmups - they hurt your butt.

[drauch]

"oooooooooooh aghhhhhhhh" (Guile death scream).

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Shmups - they hurt your butt.

Im a PC gamer been arse raped is a common ocurance for me

[captpain]

Shmups - they hurt your butt.

You should see my butt, emph.

erm wait

[CStarFlare]

no one wants your hurt butt :|

[Strider77]

I downloaded it also, but I had it pre-ordered BEFORE I downloaded it. Torrents are awesome and this... I dunno, I want these guys to make their money but sometimes a torrent of a game is just, useful. I was waiting on my copy to show up in the mail and had no guilt in downloading it. I have the original on the shelf now so that CDR is a coaster. Did the same thing with Last Hope, have an original on the shelf and no idea where that CDR is now.

[Tylerxuppercut]

"oooooooooooh aghhhhhhhh" (Guile death scream).

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (cammy death scream)



plz dont hurt my butt

[BPzeBanshee]

"oooooooooooh aghhhhhhhh" (Guile death scream).

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (cammy death scream)



plz dont hurt my butt

GYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

(Ketsui, like the Nutri-Grain 'Iron Man' ads)

[gray117]

I downloaded it also, but I had it pre-ordered BEFORE I downloaded it. Torrents are awesome and this... I dunno, I want these guys to make their money but sometimes a torrent of a game is just, useful. I was waiting on my copy to show up in the mail and had no guilt in downloading it. I have the original on the shelf now so that CDR is a coaster. Did the same thing with Last Hope, have an original on the shelf and no idea where that CDR is now.

Yeah but would you upload it if the torrent didn't exist?

... Wouldn't a better approach be to ask the developers for a download version as well as a disk version?

^Might not have happened for the first game [eg. last hope], might have happened for the second game - IF you had asked. Instead the illicit route unfortunately stops people even bothering to send an email to the devs about such things.

Whether or not sharing impacts profits negatively, it still clouds the issue, devalues any potential investment, and simply takes control away from the owners and creators.

[mjclark]

Yeah but would you upload it if the torrent didn't exist?

... Wouldn't a better approach be to ask the developers for a download version as well as a disk version

Just to play devil's advocate here, surely the torrent then saves the dev's time and resources since they now don't have to develop and distribute a demo themselves.
In fact maybe the torrent uploader should receive a portion of the games advertising budget for all their hard work lol

[Tylerxuppercut]

Yeah but would you upload it if the torrent didn't exist?

... Wouldn't a better approach be to ask the developers for a download version as well as a disk version

Just to play devil's advocate here, surely the torrent then saves the dev's time and resources since they now don't have to develop and distribute a demo themselves.
In fact maybe the torrent uploader should receive a portion of the games advertising budget for all their hard work lol

lolz check and mate!

[mjclark]

Indeed lolz!
I guess this whole thread could've been avoided (which would have been a pity really- ha ha) if the OP had PM'd me instead. I did get a PM but he'd withdrawn it before I had time to open it.
I've since PM'd the OP to try and clear this up but he hasn't yet replied.
If you're going to point the finger at someone then maybe you should have the balls to look them in the eye when you're doing it lol

Shmups Forum has always been a friendly and intelligent community and we all love shmups (though obviously have different ways of showing it!) so hopefully once this increasingly entertaining thread has run it's course (if it ever does) and everyone's untwisted their knickers, got their rattles back in their prams etc. we can all kiss and make up

[gray117]

lolz what?

Someone go kiss ngdev.

[Heartwork]

Whether or not sharing impacts profits negatively, it still clouds the issue, devalues any potential investment, and simply takes control away from the owners and creators.

Wait what? This is demonstrably not true. The ability to download a game almost never negatively impacts the market value of the hardcopy. Do an eBay search for almost any well-regarded Dreamcast title; most of the older ones go for something in the realm of $80 these days, and all of them are available on the internet for free. Hell, even look at the prices of a games like MvC2. Hardcopies of that game are still worth $80-100, despite that game being released as a downloadable game on XBLA and PSN several months ago. The price of the hardcopy didn't change at all when that happened.

[burgerkingdiamond]

Indeed lolz!
I guess this whole thread could've been avoided (which would have been a pity really- ha ha) if the OP had PM'd me instead. I did get a PM but he'd withdrawn it before I had time to open it.
I've since PM'd the OP to try and clear this up but he hasn't yet replied.
If you're going to point the finger at someone then maybe you should have the balls to look them in the eye when you're doing it lol

Shmups Forum has always been a friendly and intelligent community and we all love shmups (though obviously have different ways of showing it!) so hopefully once this increasingly entertaining thread has run it's course (if it ever does) and everyone's untwisted their knickers, got their rattles back in their prams etc. we can all kiss and make up

Well NGDEV are the only people who really have the right to get mad, and they seem to be keeping out of it. I've made my feelings known. Now back to playing my downloaded CAVE ports on my jtag.

[gray117]

Whether or not sharing impacts profits negatively, it still clouds the issue, devalues any potential investment, and simply takes control away from the owners and creators.

This is demonstrably not true. The ability to download a game almost never negatively impacts the market value of the hardcopy.

Sorry should have been clearer; I didn't mean consumer investment, but rather potential business investors, publishers, licensing, and even other developers.

I don't think you can compare ngdev as a business to capcom, or even snk. I would look at them in terms of the attitude grev originally received, as concerned their older properties.

[gavin19]

Its a shame since I'd say the NG-Dev would be well within their rights just to walk away from the Dreamcast scene now and concentrate on other projects on more secure and possibly more lucrative systems

Every platform is almost totally broken now anyway. The game would be pirateable(?) no matter which it was developed for.

Yeah but would you upload it if the torrent didn't exist?

Ultimately someone will upload it anyway, makes no difference. Every DC game ever made has ended up on usenet/bittorrent at some stage, this one is no different. Thing is, why upload it to 2 different trackers? TPB would have sufficed and made for a 'stronger' torrent. If I was uploading something it would be to one place. Two different places just smacks of attention seeking.

Artist who get paid for their work create better art because they dont have to go out find a real job to pay the bills and spend more time improving in their craft and making better things for us to enjoy

Like Van Gogh you mean?

[gray117]

Ultimately someone will upload it anyway, makes no difference. Every DC game ever made has ended up on usenet/bittorrent at some stage, this one is no different.

This is time dependant - so yes when absolutely makes a difference. And this game is different in source, timing, distribution and numbers.

Asie from legal definitions: Few things are inevitable, much could be described as tolerable, some - such as this imho - is regretable.

Like Van Gogh you mean?

This is not a good current example. Try most of the employees at capcom, ubisoft, or even cave ... something like that?

[mjclark]

Thing is, why upload it to 2 different trackers? TPB would have sufficed and made for a 'stronger' torrent. If I was uploading something it would be to one place. Two different places just smacks of attention seeking.

Doh! It's (probably) the same torrent with the same trackers but posted on two different sites to increase the potential traffic and thus strengthen the torrent.
But I really can't believe that people are now trying to give advice about how how make torrents more effective in this thread.
If this was getting funny before then it's got even funnier now

[gray117]

^ certainly made me laugh ... albeit from a different perspective.

[Tigershark]

Just because "someone" will upload it or download it doesn't mean it's ok to download it.

I'd always rather have the original game but then again I'm like that with music - I always want the CD with the accompanying artwork than some digital download.

The fact is that downloading licenced software without paying for it via legitimate means is illegal. Period. It's illegal for a reason - it's stealing. End of.

[mjclark]

The fact is that downloading licenced software without paying for it via legitimate means is illegal. Period.

Seems a bit sexist.
Is it still illegal even if the person downloading it isn't having a period?

[Jockel]

The fact is that downloading licenced software without paying for it via legitimate means is illegal.

Yes.

it's stealing.

No.
It's copyright infringement.

[mjclark]

The fact is that downloading licenced software without paying for it via legitimate means is illegal.Period

Are you sure? This is shocking news if it's true
and I'm still not sure about that "period" thing either.

Also, smoking weed is illegal, so are you going to savagely indict people who do that too?
Maybe everyone guilty of these horrific crimes should go and turn themselves in to the law- something needs to be done or this tidal wave of crime will engulf Europe and North America leaving no room for decent folk at all.
Perhaps the best thing to do is outlaw electricity which will stop all this downloading nonsense before it's even started.

[Skykid]

I bet every person in this thread has downloaded something that has infringed copyright, including the OP (you're way into your doujin scene man. )

NGDev have let it lie, so should we. Downloading stuff is a fact of internet life.

And it's great.

[Drachenherz]

One great thing about living in switzerland is:

It's perfectly legal to download Movies and Music. DLing software is illegal and a copyright infringement.

Uploading complete or nearly complete movies or tracks is prohibited on the other hand...

Now, this has nothing to do with the thread itself, but I just like to hear the clickety-clack of my keyboard when I'm typing.

[Paradigm]

The fact is that downloading licenced software without paying for it via legitimate means is illegal.

338,100 Spitfire 1-4 Mame

I bet every person in this thread has downloaded something that has infringed copyright

This. Take your moral crusade elsewhere you hypocritical cunts.

[louisg]

The fact is that downloading licenced software without paying for it via legitimate means is illegal.

338,100 Spitfire 1-4 Mame

This. Take your moral crusade elsewhere you hypocritical cunts.

Downloading a decades out-of-print game that never had a home version is not quite the same as downloading a small production, still in print, aimed at a niche audience... I know that wasn't specified in the quote, but it really is a huge difference.