Pirate shmup-o's (split from Fast Striker)

[Jeneki]

Went to NCSX to order DFK black label, and thought I'd add Fast Striker along with it. Oh noes! NCSX lists Fast Striker as Unavailable! I can't buy it there! Woot, they don't want my money, that give me the perfect excuse to ...









buy it from Play-Asia instead.

[dunpeal2064]

The fact is that downloading licenced software without paying for it via legitimate means is illegal.

338,100 Spitfire 1-4 Mame

This. Take your moral crusade elsewhere you hypocritical cunts.

Downloading a decades out-of-print game that never had a home version is not quite the same as downloading a small production, still in print, aimed at a niche audience... I know that wasn't specified in the quote, but it really is a huge difference.

Not really. Nintendo still sells decade old games on their console. Shooters are actually quite alive thanks to this. If everyone who was going to buy that just Dl'd it instead, that would still have an impact Of course I'd rather support a small company, but its the same shit.

In my book, you should follow the laws you preach, not amend them to fit whatever you see as right. I personally don't DL games, but thats just because I don't judge a game fairly if I didn't pay for it. If others want to, thats up them. Unless it actually affects you, why whine? Especially on this site, where so many people are downloading cave games, and then using the excuse "Well, they region-locked it, and I don't like region locking, so stealing it is ok, even though this game is brand-spankin new"

[Paradigm]

Downloading a decades out-of-print game that never had a home version is not quite the same as downloading a small production, still in print, aimed at a niche audience... I know that wasn't specified in the quote, but it really is a huge difference.

I understand that, but I'm tired of people getting on their high horse about it one minute, then thinking it's OK to bend the rules to suit themselves the next. Piracy is piracy.

In my book, you should follow the laws you preach, not amend them to fit whatever you see as right.

Exactly.

Especially on this site, where so many people are downloading cave games, and then using the excuse "Well, they region-locked it, and I don't like region locking, so stealing it is ok, even though this game is brand-spankin new"

This was gonna be my next point. Just because a game is region locked, you think this entitles you to pirate it? Ridiculous. This is the internet, Japanese 360's are readily available. Either open your wallet or shut the fuck up. You even have some dude in this thread arguing against Fast Striker being pirated, but then admitting he downloads CAVE games to a JTAG'ed 360... unbelievable hypocrisy.

[Wonderbanana]

Downloading a decades out-of-print game that never had a home version is not quite the same as downloading a small production, still in print, aimed at a niche audience... I know that wasn't specified in the quote, but it really is a huge difference.

Yeah! Like Guwange!

Oh wait...

[Skykid]

You even have some dude in this thread arguing against Fast Striker being pirated, but then admitting he downloads CAVE games to a JTAG'ed 360... unbelievable hypocrisy.

I think that's yet another example of humour/sarcasm not translating well in forum speak.

Downloading a decades out-of-print game that never had a home version is not quite the same as downloading a small production, still in print, aimed at a niche audience... I know that wasn't specified in the quote, but it really is a huge difference.

Yeah! Like Guwange!

Oh wait...

Zing!

[Tigershark]

338,100 Spitfire 1-4 Mame

Yep, hands up.

In context yes that was hypocrtical and in a black and white world you are quite correct.

[KBZ]

I can't wait to save $50 and download GunLord when it comes out. Who is with me? Paying for games is for pussies.

[gavin19]

Doh! It's (probably) the same torrent with the same trackers but posted on two different sites to increase the potential traffic and thus strengthen the torrent.
But I really can't believe that people are now trying to give advice about how how make torrents more effective in this thread.
If this was getting funny before then it's got even funnier now

I didn't offer any advice. I was under the impression that demonoid had gone totally private so therefore it would have had to have been two separate torrents. My mistake. Normally these things end up on BC or UG almost immediately but no-one has bothered as of yet.

[stryc9]

This thread is great.
At it's highest abstraction downloading copyrighted software is illegal, there is no argument there. And the rules are rarely/never enforced on your average hard drive hoarder, so inevitably it comes down to the individual making a decision drawn from their own moral standard regarding the subject. Another factor is the one of the box fetish, so you can figure that into it as well. For example, I have downloaded software, like EVERY PERSON WITH AN INTERNET CONNECTION ON THE PLANET, the difference being that I simply want to check it out to see if it's any good first. Should we really rush blindly into an expensive Import purchase if it is questionable the game is any cop? For shooters, it's really kinda simple. All of Caves shit is worth picking up, so no need to download that. Most shooters it's pretty obvious whether they have any potential or not from videos and the wealth of information available from this here site should clear up any doubts you have re: any particular title. So for me these days I rarely even bother with all that, cos well, Iv'e been gaming for about two and a half decades and I havn't picked a dud game in donkeys years.
Not even Death Smiles IIX.

@ MJclark: You made me laugh man. I love how this shit split off from Fast Striker (puffs on blunt)

[gavin19]

For example, I have downloaded software, like EVERY PERSON WITH AN INTERNET CONNECTION ON THE PLANET, the difference being that I simply want to check it out to see if it's any good first.

EVERY PERSON ALSO KEEPS IT ANYWAY. Depending on financial circumstances, morals etc virtually every piece of software that is 'tried' (please), is kept and used regardless. Don't suggest otherwise or try to take the high ground by pretending that you are one of the exceptions to the rule.

Should we really rush blindly into an expensive Import purchase if it is questionable the game is any cop?

That was valid in 1993 when I was deciding to import some SNES JRPG on the strength of one magazine review. Now there are multiple sources, trailers, clips, opinions etc etc.

For shooters, it's really kinda simple

For shmups it's worse. Generally a game that gets highly praised, say GTA IV, is almost universally accepted. Yet a shmup can be almost perfect for most people, but it could have one little quirk in the scoring system and that's it rejected. Much fussier.

@ MJclark: You made me laugh man. I love how this shit split off from Fast Striker

I didn't read anything funny? The thread was never really about Fast Striker specifically, it could have been any uploaded recent release.

(puffs on blunt)

That explains it all

[stryc9]

I'm not taking any moral highground. I'm just showing you an example of the grey area that exists in terms of a persons intent when downloading stuff. The other two categories include the people that DL anything and everything from the net, and probably wont even look at it, and the ones that I guess will hurt our industry the most: shooter fans that don't care about boxes and arrange CDs, had no intention of buying X shooter from the begining but every intention of playing said shooter and wringing every ounce of enjoyment out of it without paying a cent. I'm not judging anyone here or elsewhere regarding the subject; just trying ad another angle to the argument. And of course this thread is funny. And you just made it even funnier.

You could be right about the 'with shmups its worse' thing though.

[moozooh]

Downloading a decades out-of-print game that never had a home version is not quite the same as downloading a small production, still in print, aimed at a niche audience... I know that wasn't specified in the quote, but it really is a huge difference.

You know why it isn't? Because you take it upon yourself to make a moral call for another person. "This act of pirating is ok, and this isn't. When I pirate an old game from a popular dev, it's ok, when he pirates a new release from an indie, it's not." That's hypocritical.

[louisg]

Downloading a decades out-of-print game that never had a home version is not quite the same as downloading a small production, still in print, aimed at a niche audience... I know that wasn't specified in the quote, but it really is a huge difference.

Not really. Nintendo still sells decade old games on their console. Shooters are actually quite alive thanks to this. If everyone who was going to buy that just Dl'd it instead, that would still have an impact Of course I'd rather support a small company, but its the same shit.

I specifically said games which do not have home versions after being out for decades, or games which are essentially abandoned. You don't see Radar Lock on Nintendo's service, for example, or the arm wrestling game. It's likely that Nintendo has no interest in bringing those to a home system. So, if you want to play them, at least to date, there are only two possibilities. And, if you aren't into PCBs, there is only one possibility. This is even more true for driving games, where to play them properly you would absolutely require a full cab.

I'm not saying it's not copyright infringement. I'm saying that for certain games, there is only one realistic way for people to ever see them again, and that is to play them through MAME. Spitfire is likely one such game which will never see a commercial home release. Yes, there is a downside: this may discourage publishers from giving rare games a well-done home release (though considering how big these download services are, I doubt it). Still, you can't really equate that with uploading Fast Striker, or MAME Ketsui at the exact time that Ketsui is released for the XBox.

[mjclark]

Because you take it upon yourself to make a moral call for another person. "This act of pirating is ok, and this isn't. When I pirate an old game from a popular dev, it's ok, when he pirates a new release from an indie, it's not." That's hypocritical.

Yeah- that whole finger-pointing thing has never been a good way to go
and since we're on the subject of legality:
From the Forum Rules-
"General:
* Legality. Serious note – you're legally responsible for anything you post here.
* Conduct. Another serious note – no personal attacks...."
The OP seems to be directly violating these rules by the whole first post but especially the "Nice guy, eh?" bit. I assume he was a bit bothered when he posted but now an apology would be nice, cos that whole "making this personal" thing is really distasteful and not in the spirit of this forum
Of course people have said much worse things to each other on here, but I'm sure we all agree that stuff like that is better left to PMs.
and

Still, you can't really equate that with uploading Fast Striker, or MAME Ketsui at the exact time that Ketsui is released for the XBox.

From what I can see, the members of this forum who were involved with MAME Ketsui are highly respected and it's generally agreed here that
it's an extremely good thing!!!!

[dunpeal2064]

Downloading a decades out-of-print game that never had a home version is not quite the same as downloading a small production, still in print, aimed at a niche audience... I know that wasn't specified in the quote, but it really is a huge difference.

Not really. Nintendo still sells decade old games on their console. Shooters are actually quite alive thanks to this. If everyone who was going to buy that just Dl'd it instead, that would still have an impact Of course I'd rather support a small company, but its the same shit.

I specifically said games which do not have home versions after being out for decades, or games which are essentially abandoned. You don't see Radar Lock on Nintendo's service, for example, or the arm wrestling game. It's likely that Nintendo has no interest in bringing those to a home system. So, if you want to play them, at least to date, there are only two possibilities. And, if you aren't into PCBs, there is only one possibility. This is even more true for driving games, where to play them properly you would absolutely require a full cab.

I'm not saying it's not copyright infringement. I'm saying that for certain games, there is only one realistic way for people to ever see them again, and that is to play them through MAME. Spitfire is likely one such game which will never see a commercial home release. Yes, there is a downside: this may discourage publishers from giving rare games a well-done home release (though considering how big these download services are, I doubt it). Still, you can't really equate that with uploading Fast Striker, or MAME Ketsui at the exact time that Ketsui is released for the XBox.

I see your point. However, my point is, what gives you the right to pick and choose what illegal activities are and aren't allowed. Because of the way you feel about it? What if others don't agree? Thats what a law is for, and if you want to apply it, don't pick and choose what you can do, and then bash on others.

I know what you are saying, and I feel for NG:DEV for losing that money, but that has been happening to musicians for years. It sucks, but its a side affect of the internet.

In my opinion, people should just make their personal choices as to what they will do in the matter, and leave it at that. Don't try to push what you feel onto others. If you want to push the actual law of it, then don't try to fix it so you feel ok with stealing different games, just because they are less likely to see a home console port. Just my 2 cents

[Ghegs]

Okay, I think we've had enough of this. As for you who had the balls to start name-dropping private trackers and start asking for invites, I'll deal with you in a moment.