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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:09 am 


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Yeah, basically none of the issues you mentioned are fixed, it's exactly like the console. Damn you Reiker you tricked me again!*

You can only chose from preset control configurations and digital movement gives you max speed. Keyboard options are use either wasd to move and iop as buttons, or arrow keys to move and asd as buttons. There's also mouse only control which was actually pretty fun for the 20 seconds or so I tried it for.

*just kidding, this time I'm here for fine visuals and various anthropomorphic cats speaking Hungarian. Autofire is ON


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:21 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:32 pm 


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In other random good news, Sine Mora will be a part of the IGC on PS+ (Vita ver.) in October. So yeah, for those that got Vita's and haven't bought this yet, you're in for a treat, maybe, lol. :3
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:08 pm 


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I'm actually very tempted to try this out now to see how bad it really is. :?
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:08 pm 


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It's really not that bad. The story mode is decently fun even if the score attack mode is plagued by bad choices. It's just a mediocre game that people despise because it's hailed by critics as the best shooter since Ikaruga.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:34 pm 



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Special World wrote:
It's really not that bad. The story mode is decently fun even if the score attack mode is plagued by bad choices. It's just a mediocre game that people despise because it's hailed by critics as the best shooter since Ikaruga.

This!.

i bought it for the PSVita and got it off the net for the XBox360, and i enjoy playing it on the PSVita from time to time... but only on Story mode, the other modes just get me angry.

The game looks great, and whan you get the hang of it, you can actually enjoy it (some)... but i really hate that "get hit, lose all of your power ups with a huge chance of not getting them back, right b4 a boss" bullsh!t.

I advice ppl on the fence to actually give it a try... it's not a CAVE game, nor Ikaruga ... but it can be fun, as soon as you figure out the mechanics... just dont play anything beyond Story mode.

edit: changed the mode that can be actually enjoyable.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:07 pm 


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I actually think arcade mode is the most annoying, since it forces harder difficulties on you that really highlight how garbage some of the mechanics are. In story mode's easier settings you don't really notice all the BS as much because it's more lenient.

The worst thing is that Sine Mora could really be a stellar game with just a few tweaks. It's a real shame.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:13 pm 



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Special World wrote:
I actually think arcade mode is the most annoying, since it forces harder difficulties on you that really highlight how garbage some of the mechanics are. In story mode's easier settings you don't really notice all the BS as much because it's more lenient.

The worst thing is that Sine Mora could really be a stellar game with just a few tweaks. It's a real shame.


Thats right. i meant Story mode, not Arcade... and i agree with your last statement... the game has great visuals, and plays fine on the PSVita, with a few tweaks, it could be a really good game... too bad it's probably NOT gonna happen.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:10 pm 



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I purchased the Vita version a few days ago, not knowing much about the game, but willing to give it a shot.

When I first played it, I basically started to experience the first thirty pages of this thread within the span of a few minutes.

I was also thoroughly confused on how I was supposed to beat the first boss. I tried to kill it I don't know how many times, only to find out on my first successful attempt that you just have to weather the storm. To say I was dumbfounded would be an understatement.

This game shouldn't have left the drawing board. It's dysfunctional beyond belief and feels like it was made by a team who didn't know what they wanted to accomplish. I would at least praise the visuals, except that all the enemy designs are so bland it renders the technically impressive graphics worthless.

At least it has the chick with the bun from Under Defeat?


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:32 pm 


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I hope you didn't waste too much on it ..


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:24 am 


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The iOS version apparently eschews the common 1:1 touch 'n drag controls a lot of shmups use (Cave's ports for instance) and goes for a horribly twitchy virtual analog stick, which is probably the worst way they could have done the movement.

And their default autofire for the port has a hard time killing those popcorn planes. Hah. It's clear they never really cared about playability and just wanted something that they could release that looked edgy and had lots of eye candy, game balance be damned.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:38 am 


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BareknuckleRoo wrote:
The iOS version apparently eschews the common 1:1 touch 'n drag controls a lot of shmups use (Cave's ports for instance) and goes for a horribly twitchy virtual analog stick, which is probably the worst way they could have done the movement.

And their default autofire for the port has a hard time killing those popcorn planes. Hah. It's clear they never really cared about playability and just wanted something that they could release that looked edgy and had lots of eye candy, game balance be damned.
I think that video review gave me cancer.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:41 am 


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I tried this game over the weekend. Got it via that Humble Kalypso Bundle a couple of months back.

Graphics are nice, but it plays like a mediocre shooter. It's not bad, but it ended up being pretty boring really fast.

Also, it may just be me, but there were parts where I couldn't distinguish which elements in the game were part of the gameplay and which were only part of the background.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:21 am 


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I feel like Sine Mora was developed for the casual crowd, and it shows.

Mainstream reviewers and a lot of non-"hardcore" players love it, but here on sys11 it's more of a black sheep than anything.

Same with a lot of "euroshmups" like Tyrian 2000 and Raptor: CotS. (Although I at least like Tyrian 2000; I could not stand more than one stage of Raptor.)
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:38 am 


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gs68 wrote:
I feel like Sine Mora was developed for the casual crowd, and it shows.

Mainstream reviewers and a lot of non-"hardcore" players love it, but here on sys11 it's more of a black sheep than anything.

Same with a lot of "euroshmups" like Tyrian 2000 and Raptor: CotS. (Although I at least like Tyrian 2000; I could not stand more than one stage of Raptor.)
Pretty much. It reminded me a lot of that old screwattack top 10 shmups video where they said daioujou is too hard and then proceeded to praise ikaruga, tyrian and the like. I'm sure if sine more had existed back then it would have been in the video.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:23 am 


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Tyrian 2000 (hell, even OpenTyrian which is Tyrian 1.5 under modern engine) is so much better than this.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:50 am 


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gs68 wrote:
I feel like Sine Mora was developed for the casual crowd, and it shows.

Mainstream reviewers and a lot of non-"hardcore" players love it, but here on sys11 it's more of a black sheep than anything.


I agree, and as a result I've never settled on how I feel about the game. It's lack of a true arcade game structure and all the other things brought up throughout this thread do really bug me despite my best attempts to enjoy it, and then at the same time I think cracking making a shmup for the wider mainstream audience is a great thing, both as a design achievement and perhaps for the genre.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:59 am 


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Problem is that there's no design achievement here. Making a good spiritual successor to The Guardian Legend or Xexyz that crosses genre lines and expectations would be a great design achievement. Making a very mediocre shmup with a 2edgy4u story that receives attention because of the pretty graphics/art and the developer behind it is not in any way a design achievement.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:10 pm 


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Fair point. Perhaps my wording was wrong.

Perhaps it's more that they ave overcome a design conundrum; how to make a shmup that simulates what a modern scrolling STG does, but for a mainstream audience. Certainly, others there have failed time and again.

But then those failures have on the large part still appealed to the devoted shmup playing community. The real design achievement would be appealing to both crowds in a single game (mode).

I guess Ikaruga and Gradius V have done that to a degree, but maybe only culturally rather than through their gameplay mechanics/make-up. Perhaps only over time have they become something the mainstream gamers points to as the 'go to' example of a great shmup, and probably largely through what those players have heard rather than what they've played. Commercially I doubt it could be argued they were a mainstream success. I wonder how widely those games were positively reviewed (or reviewed at all) in mainstream games media around the time of their initial console launches?

Not that a game taking time to find it's full audience really matters if it did eventually find its full audience. I'm sure Ikargua XBLA's download numbers did pretty well. Does anybody know?
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:22 pm 


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I can at least attest that Gradius V received decent enough reviews from Electronic Gaming Monthly back then. Like 7's and 8's out of 10.

I honestly think that the relative success of Sine Mora just comes down to a few things:

1: Suda 51 name behind it

2: Good art and aesthetics I guess.

3: Seemingly clever new gameplay mechanic (forget execution...)

4: being easily obtainable (don't have to import or walk into a store and buy a game with 20 loli's on the cover...)


Honestly, I think the game will be forgotten in no time. It just got decent reviews and decent sales due to how easy to pick up and seemingly interesting it was.
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Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:00 pm 



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Overated awfull old school pc game( TEAM 17 PROJECT X ) springs too mind when i think of sine mora !


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:04 pm 


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cubadoo23 wrote:
Overated awfull old school pc game( TEAM 17 PROJECT X ) springs too mind when i think of sine mora !


I sort of like Project X! :oops: But only through nostalgia. As an Amiga obsessive in the early nineties, it was part of what got me into shmups. It's awful, and hugely Euro-, but I've a soft spot for it.

Back on topic, I guess all I'm really saying about Sine Mora is, despite not being a good shmup in the classic form, it achieved something in terms of the audience it met with, and I'm hopeful it might serve, in its own small way, as a gateway to more shmups for those gamers out there currently missing out on the genre. If it does that even a little, I'm glad for it, because the more people into the genre, the more the genre thrives, and so we all gain.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:17 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
I can at least attest that Gradius V received decent enough reviews from Electronic Gaming Monthly back then. Like 7's and 8's out of 10.

I honestly think that the relative success of Sine Mora just comes down to a few things:

1: Suda 51 name behind it

2: Good art and aesthetics I guess.

3: Seemingly clever new gameplay mechanic (forget execution...)

4: being easily obtainable (don't have to import or walk into a store and buy a game with 20 loli's on the cover...)


Honestly, I think the game will be forgotten in no time. It just got decent reviews and decent sales due to how easy to pick up and seemingly interesting it was.


I forget about this game until I see this thread.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:07 am 



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spadgy wrote:
Back on topic, I guess all I'm really saying about Sine Mora is, despite not being a good shmup in the classic form, it achieved something in terms of the audience it met with, and I'm hopeful it might serve, in its own small way, as a gateway to more shmups for those gamers out there currently missing out on the genre. If it does that even a little, I'm glad for it, because the more people into the genre, the more the genre thrives, and so we all gain.


Reiker's own posts on this board seem to suggest that the concessions he claimed to make for the casual crowd didn't really make much of a difference. A quote from some other thread he made:

"Looking at the (Sine Mora) sales numbers, it's now clear that the "casual outsiders" are not really interested in the genre, no matter how "shiny" your game is."

In other words, he ignored the (completely reasonable) suggestions from communities like this one for the sake of chasing an audience that doesn't give a crap either way. Whoever could have seen this coming?


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:32 am 


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Basically the same thing happens for fighting games. Every time someone tries to dumb down the game, the "casuals" (I hate the word but I will use it now since I can't think of a better one) never put one ounce more of time or effort into it than they usually do, and the people who actually care about the game end up getting alienated by all the crappy design that butchering your game like that results in.

Not that you can't make a game more accessible. I mean, look at Marvel Vs Capcom. The game was designed to attract newcomers and be something of a party game while still being a good fighting game, and the design made sense from both perspectives. And look at the result: Mvc2 has been one of the most played games by competitive fighting game fans in the entire genre.

As I said before, Sine Mora isn't more accessible, it's just badly designed. It got 15 minutes of fame because the stars all lined up correctly with the art/developer name/ease of obtaining it as a downloadable release, but everyone has pretty much forgotten it by now. Except the people here, ironically.
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:47 am 


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And it'll keep getting bumped for years every time someone here tries it and posts about how mediocre/flawed it is .. fun times.


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:12 pm 


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GSK wrote:
Reiker's own posts on this board seem to suggest that the concessions he claimed to make for the casual crowd didn't really make much of a difference. A quote from some other thread he made:

"Looking at the (Sine Mora) sales numbers, it's now clear that the "casual outsiders" are not really interested in the genre, no matter how "shiny" your game is."


So it didn't sell too well? Then I guess I'm totally wrong. Well… I still like what the game tried, even if it failed.

Squire Grooktook wrote:
everyone has pretty much forgotten it by now. Except the people here, ironically.


Ha ha! Good point!
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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:34 pm 


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So there's been no news about the "sequel" for this all year, sigh of relief?
Quote:
Jan 31, 2013 - Former Digital Reality creative director Theodore Reiker - best known for his work on the shockingly sophisticated :!: shmup, Sine Mora - has left to start a new studio, Prior Games, where he'll be working on another Japanese-Hungarian co-developed shmup for 2014.
Codenamed Project Verona, little is known about it, but Reiker said in an interview with Joystiq that it would be "more conservative in its gameplay and less ambiguous in its storytelling," and that it will branch out of the genre's conventions.


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:33 pm 


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1i got drunk, hunted this thread down just ito say this game is got so many things wrong it makes it shit, and i hate the thing! and yet I love it when the thread gets bumped as it means can swear about it in my own mind !!!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:34 pm 


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Enemy wrote:
1i got drunk, hunted this thread down just ito say this game is got so many things wrong it makes it shit, and i hate the thing! and yet I love it when the thread gets bumped as it means can swear about it in my own mind !!!! :D



off to the i'm drunk thread i think !!!!!


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