Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

[7711]

Get Akai Katana. Horizontal, great graphics, tons of fun in novice mode, great challenge in normal mode. 3 unique modes for the price of one.
Try out both demo's and then decide. But if you want it for the sake of wanting it. Go ahead.

I'll probably get both at some point (if I can afford it), but I've played most CAVE games including progear, watched a few AK superplays already and heard a lot about it, while I have no idea how Sine Mora plays so I'm most interested in playing the latter.
And I don't know, there's something about both this game's graphics and poorly appreciated games in general that really... fuck it, I just need it

[trap15]

I like games people hate, but those usually have some redeeming value aside from graphics. Sine Mora doesn't.

[7711]

I like games people hate, but those usually have some redeeming value aside from graphics. Sine Mora doesn't.

Maybe thats true but I really can't imagine a game being THAT bad, aside from rushed budget titles I enjoyed pretty much every games I've played so far. So a game looking that interesting from my point of view should be okay. But hey, I'll just have to wait so I really know...
Maybe its because you are looking at it from a strict stgs enthusiast point of view and I don't

[Marc]

I am no strict STG enthusiast, I picked it up the other week because it was on half price sale here in the UK. 600 points down the shitter. It fucking blows.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Maybe thats true but I really can't imagine a game being THAT bad, aside from rushed budget titles

It may have had a big budget, but all they spent their time on was making it look pretty. The gameplay, the interface, the scoring system, the horrible controls... everything is an unpolished, clearly rushed mess. It's 2013 - since when do modern shmups nowadays not let you customize the controls (you literally can only pick from 3 shitty presets last time I played the xbox version)?

Seriously, start reading from here. This is when the game just got released; a lot of people looking forward to it rather unpleasantly discovered that all dem shiny graphics were covering up a steaming turd of a game.

Just watch this if you want to see the graphics, save your money. Spend your money on a decent shmup that doesn't require a rapid fire controller to get any sort of reasonable shot damage out of your main weapon.

[Skykid]

I love it when the Sine Mora thread gets bumped, it's usually just several posts of people exhuming its corpse and gang raping it.

[stryc9]

>Rests arms on shovel<

Game sucks.

My advise to any devs reading this would be to study the fundamentals of what a playable shooter does before messing with shit like time reverse mechanics and random falling pianos.

Alright I'm done. Who's up next?

[shmuppyLove]

Get Akai Katana. Horizontal, great graphics, tons of fun in novice mode, great challenge in normal mode. 3 unique modes for the price of one.
Try out both demo's and then decide. But if you want it for the sake of wanting it. Go ahead.

This.

I saw it for $9.83 at Staples yesterday, and there was lots of stock.

[XoPachi]

I read all the posts here.

Goodness gracious.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Yeah it's a naff game, pretty to be sure but trolls anyone who has played a few good bullet hells and knows what's what. It's a shame though because it feels like many of it's faults could be patched out quite easily, it gives the impression that the devs really stick by their design choices rather than it just been a case of them not knowing what they were doing.

I love it when the Sine Mora thread gets bumped, it's usually just several posts of people exhuming its corpse and gang raping it.

I think discovering that Sine Mora is a shit game despite all the praise it gets in the mainstream is a rite of passage for ppl on this forum. PPl will be bashing this game for years to come lol

As others have said Akia Katana is x10s the game SM and at under £10 is better way to spend money. Sucks that Akia never made it to other platforms while SM did.

[mortified_penguin]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it shit. It's worth a play, imo, for the design aesthetics alone. (Thought arcade mode is complete and utter horseshit).

I'll save my hate for something loaded with lolis.

[Kollision]

thought arcade mode is complete and utter horseshit

that's actually the only decent way to play the game IMO

[moonwhistle]

The practically invisible walls in the worm cave section are ridiculous. In games of this type collidable scenery should either be very clearly highlighted or do no damage. It's incredibly frustrating. The aesthetic is just getting in the way of gameplay.

Reading earlier posts in this thread, I don't believe that this game was pitched to a mainstream audience. Little things like "STG" used in the difficulty description makes it obvious it was designed for fans of the genre. I think it was designed with hardcore fans in mind and then there was some serious back peddling due to all the complaints.

[ZaKa-tokyobassist]

I'm a sucker for Suda games but playing this demo and trying out Maniac Mode and laughing at the slowdown gimmick, lame patterns, cheap and inconsistent hitboxes and stage hazards complete with the pacing of R-Type Final's slowest moments, ugh...I was losing hope. Then I kicked myself in the ass for going against my intuition and playing Lollipop Chainsaw.

Two turds dropped from Suda back to back. I swear if Killer Is Dead is the 3rd bomb (and no excuses this time since he is actually directing it unlike Lollipop Chainsaw) he's a fraud who made a few games.

[Skykid]

I bought both close to the same time...and even though SM is so much prettier...it was out shined by AK's shin mode.

Sine Mora prettier than Akai Katana? I find this incredibly hard to believe.

[BIL]

This steaming turd in a sea of bloody diarhea

<3 this topic

[nasty_wolverine]

I bought both close to the same time...and even though SM is so much prettier...it was out shined by AK's shin mode.

Sine Mora prettier than Akai Katana? I find this incredibly hard to believe.

wait what? finely crafted 2d art with a perspective that would even make Escher proud is worse than generic fancy 3d graphics?
you must be joking sir.

[Never_Scurred]

Haven't played this yet....better or worse than Otomedius Excellent?

[BPzeBanshee]

Haven't played this yet....better or worse than Otomedius Excellent?

Worse.

[Zaarock]

wait what? finely crafted 2d art with a perspective that would even make Escher proud is worse than generic fancy 3d graphics?
you must be joking sir.

Some of the pre-rendered sprites in AK don't look great or "2d art" to me. Sine Mora has some un-generic designs(mainly bosses) by the designers at Grasshopper which do look pretty cool IMO.

@ZaKa-tokyobassist: the gameplay of the game was all handled by Digital Reality, not suda & grasshopper afaik? Not sure if that applies for Black Knight Sword which they also collaborated on afterwards(I think it's a better game than sine mora anyway)

[malchitos]

I bought both close to the same time...and even though SM is so much prettier...it was out shined by AK's shin mode.

Sine Mora prettier than Akai Katana? I find this incredibly hard to believe.

now now...lets at least give it that much. Not that Akai Katana is ugly...it's a very attractive game too.

[DBreakfast]

I'm a sucker for Suda games but playing this demo and trying out Maniac Mode and laughing at the slowdown gimmick, lame patterns, cheap and inconsistent hitboxes and stage hazards complete with the pacing of R-Type Final's slowest moments, ugh...I was losing hope. Then I kicked myself in the ass for going against my intuition and playing Lollipop Chainsaw.

Two turds dropped from Suda back to back. I swear if Killer Is Dead is the 3rd bomb (and no excuses this time since he is actually directing it unlike Lollipop Chainsaw) he's a fraud who made a few games.

This isn't a Suda51 game. It's developed by some studio called Digital Reality who have an incredible pedigree. Grasshopper just handled the art.

[nasty_wolverine]

wait what? finely crafted 2d art with a perspective that would even make Escher proud is worse than generic fancy 3d graphics?
you must be joking sir.

Some of the pre-rendered sprites in AK don't look great or "2d art" to me. Sine Mora has some un-generic designs(mainly bosses) by the designers at Grasshopper which do look pretty cool IMO.

For me its not totally about the art, but the perspective. I learnt different kinds of perspectives which you can draw things in when i was learning arts. AKS just throws all the rules out the window and still makes it somehow work and look great. and just the amount of madness going onscreen at once, and also has the best bullet and laser sprites in a cave game IMO.

[CStarFlare]

Akai Katana's mix of military hardware and disproportionate magic ninjas doesn't do it for me. Sine Mora at least knows what it wants to be.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Sine Mora at least knows what it wants to be.

Only in terms of the visuals. The gameplay is a mess of badly mashed together gameplay elements taken from other, non-shit games, and robbed of their scoring systems (Giga Wing, Espgaluda).

Akai Katana has giant trains and battleships being summoned out of portals by ninjas while you shoot swords at them. How is that not the most awesome thing ever?

[nasty_wolverine]

Akai Katana has giant trains and battleships being summoned out of portals by ninjas while you shoot swords at them. How is that not the most awesome thing ever?

Seconded...

[shmuppyLove]

Akai Katana has giant trains and battleships being summoned out of portals by ninjas while you shoot swords at them. How is that not the most awesome thing ever?

And badass guitar rock

I'm going to play it RIGHT NAO

[TrevHead (TVR)]

It may have had a big budget, but all they spent their time on was making it look pretty. The gameplay, the interface, the scoring system, the horrible controls... everything is an unpolished, clearly rushed mess. It's 2013 - since when do modern shmups nowadays not let you customize the controls (you literally can only pick from 3 shitty presets last time I played the xbox version)?

It's actually more common than you'd think as Castle Crashers has the same problem, you're fucked if you want to map it to your arcade stick and are forced to use a pad where block which needs fast timing is locked to the R Trigger which has a large deadzone. It seems that most (western) devs think an arcade stick is only for FTGs rather than all arcade games.

As I beleive you mentioned elsewhere this game did have a number of us looking forward to release but had our hopes crushed when we finally played it. I think Reiker was either trying to make a STG that pleased both casual and semi hardcore (Jamestown proved the concept successfully) but was totally ignorant or plain just didn't care about some STG fundamentals. (Like how the game is semi broken when you take hit, no floating item rebounds or 2-3 sec invulnerability window)

I worry that the fallout from our response to SM has painted us in a bad light with the mainstream. IE stick in the muds that no western indie should ever pander too. Which while we are purists that isn't the case, SM is nigh on broken when your ship takes a hit that it's like a 10 sec stun block in a FTG, ppl who play FTG's wouldn't let shit like that fly just like we wouldn't with SM. Reiker also made the mistake of trying to shoehorn in a random number generator to level the playing field which while works in CoD doesn't in a STG imo.

wait what? finely crafted 2d art with a perspective that would even make Escher proud is worse than generic fancy 3d graphics?
you must be joking sir.

Some of the pre-rendered sprites in AK don't look great or "2d art" to me. Sine Mora has some un-generic designs(mainly bosses) by the designers at Grasshopper which do look pretty cool IMO.

For me its not totally about the art, but the perspective. I learnt different kinds of perspectives which you can draw things in when i was learning arts. AKS just throws all the rules out the window and still makes it somehow work and look great. and just the amount of madness going onscreen at once, and also has the best bullet and laser sprites in a cave game IMO.

Yeah the perspective difference in AK between the ground, which is like a vert on it side, with the air elements that are straight hori is abit jarring in first impressions, I love it now though as it makes a refreshing change to a STD hori like DeathSmiles. Also Akia is a damn fine looking game though imo CAVE really went to town with the effects, ie the cherry blossoms, special attacks with gold filling the screen to the massive explosions which might be the best I've ever seen.

Sine Mora is one of the best looking 3D shmups around which adds to the frustration when playing it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Akai Katana's mix of military hardware and disproportionate magic ninjas doesn't do it for me. Sine Mora at least knows what it wants to be.

It's Japanese stuff (light tanks, aircraft carriers, and ninjas of course). Unless I'm terribly mistaken there's not ONE gimp in Sine Mora (the voice box thing...I just looked up the characters - not what I was expecting from what I had heard, but it still doesn't count) and it looks kind of cutesy, bright, and fuzzy overall. How's that Suda 51?

[CStarFlare]

Like how the game is semi broken when you take hit, no floating item rebounds or 2-3 sec invulnerability window

For all of Sine Mora's problems, this isn't really a big one. Use your capsule when you take a hit to grab your powerups and you'll get 80%+ of them back every time. Usually all, unless you're in that fucking wind tunnel.

Which while we are purists that isn't the case, SM is nigh on broken when your ship takes a hit that it's like a 10 sec stun block in a FTG

You don't get stunned when you take a hit.

I worry that the fallout from our response to SM has painted us in a bad light with the mainstream. IE stick in the muds that no western indie should ever pander too.

The community's response to Sine Mora does put us in a bad light.

- Inventing problems that don't exist
- Declaring minor annoyances to be game breaking
- The same people piling blind hatred on the game every time this thread gets bumped by someone who sees it for sale for $.99 on steam

It's pretty obvious that the community has taken something about Sine Mora as a personal insult - whether it's the creators asking for advice and disregarding it, or how it was marketed to the media that is still licking the game's balls, there's bad blood here. It's like reading a Fez thread - the creator pissed people off, so they stubbornly refuse to make or acknowledge any positive statements about the game.