8th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - commentary thread

[Dale]

Mero's list is sweet. Great to see so many votes for GunSmoke the game was pretty under represented in previous top 25's, I didn't expect this to make a comeback but ya never know.

[evil_ash_xero]

Is Bangai-O up for this? I REALLY don't consider it a shmup, but if it is, I will probably have to put it in there. It rocks the casbah.

[Herr Schatten]

Is Bangai-O up for this? I REALLY don't consider it a shmup, but if it is, I will probably have to put it in there. It rocks the casbah.

Questions like that will be answered in the discussion thread.

[Ed Oscuro]

So it would have been answered, in the form of a comment, if evil ash x0. commented on the fact that he was considering putting Bangai-Oh in his Top25, and you could have said it was / wasn't acceptable in commenting on his comment, by way of commenting on the reason we "inculde certain games in our lists, or why we exclude others" as being not a legal vote is a good reason to not include it. Arbitrary thread delineation preserved!

My commentary is that Herr S. is a tease. (This commentary is a commentary appropriate to the commentary thread.)

[Rob]

Is Bangai-O up for this? I REALLY don't consider it a shmup, but if it is, I will probably have to put it in there. It rocks the casbah.

Questions like that will be answered in the discussion thread.

But it was already answered by my favorite rule:

09. You may not vote for games that you do not believe are shmups. If you do not think that Granada is a shmup, you may not vote for it. However, as long as the votes of others respect the categories outlined in rule #08, your opinion shall have no bearing on the eligibility of other votes.

You can't lie to yourself, ash.

[spikehead]

You can't lie to yourself, ash.

Unless he is schizophrenic.

[ncp]

Lots of Batrider votes, maybe we'll see it above Garegga where it belongs

[cools]

Only reason I'm voting is to weigh in some Batrider and Pink Sweets love

[ncp]

I'd like to see some other votes for Futari 1.01... stupid 1st-print-only bullshit. Maniac is so awesome!

[Herr Schatten]

So it would have been answered, in the form of a comment, if evil ash x0. commented on the fact that he was considering putting Bangai-Oh in his Top25, and you could have said it was / wasn't acceptable in commenting on his comment, by way of commenting on the reason we "inculde certain games in our lists, or why we exclude others" as being not a legal vote is a good reason to not include it. Arbitrary thread delineation preserved!

My commentary is that Herr S. is a tease. (This commentary is a commentary appropriate to the commentary thread.)

I get your point, but the thread delineation is not as arbitrary as it seems. The idea of the commentary thread was born last year, when the interesting talk about peoples' votes got drowned in all the bitching about the rules and about games' eligibility going on in the original discussion thread. This year, there seems to be little desire to discuss the rules, and there are only few questions regarding the eligibility of games, so I agree that the discussion thread seems a little unnecessary. You must understand, though, that part of the reason why I agreed to run the top 25 vote this year despite my work schedule was that I would not have to make any judgement calls or cope with any discussions. Bloodflowers kindly agreed to take over that duty.

Discussion about the voting (including the eligibility of certain games) go in the discussion thread. Bloodflowers will take care of them.

Discussion of votes (and pretty much everything else regarding the top 25) go in the commentary thread. (I won't answer any questions regarding the eligibility of games here.)

[Ed Oscuro]

I know what the reasoning is, but it's pretty subtle. I have to apologize for the way I made that point (at least hopefully it was amusing).

On another point - wasn't it a bit early for the Top 25 this year? I was surprised it came up so soon. Considering I haven't been steeped in shooting games the last couple months, this makes me realize the Top 25 often makes me get around to playing some of my favorites (and looking at other candidates - I won't say "new" ones) when it rolls around. I also somewhat felt there was short notice. Of course, if this was happening months later and I started playing then, I'd still not be in a good position to feel settled enough to vote then either

[emphatic]

I'm just glad I could add 5 games to my list. One that I did enjoy in my youth and tried in MAME to once again enjoy, one that I actually own as PCB/cart that I've not had time to learn until recently, one that I should have played but stayed away from because of needle bullets and two more Black Labels.

Shmup life is sweet ATM.

[Ed Oscuro]

Oho, I'm silly; we have a full month for voting (wrongly read end date as June 11, not July!). I guess I'll have a list ready by then!

[professor ganson]

But it was already answered by my favorite rule:

09. You may not vote for games that you do not believe are shmups. If you do not think that Granada is a shmup, you may not vote for it. However, as long as the votes of others respect the categories outlined in rule #08, your opinion shall have no bearing on the eligibility of other votes.

You can't lie to yourself, ash.

Yeah, I noticed that rule as well and thought it was well crafted. Nice work, Herr Schatten!

[Dale]

Battle Toad's list is pretty awesome. All these Ikaruga votes make me nauseous though.

[ncp]

needs more mountain of faith votes, I'd die if it made the top 25

also radiant silvergun was going to stay down and then jpj puts a heavily weighted vote for it. lol.

All these Ikaruga votes make me nauseous though.

yeah how dare these people vote for good games

[Dragoforce]

I'm a little bit embarrassed by the fact the it's only me and JAPJAC that voted for Viewpoint. Hopefully mr.robot will save the day. Good to see that Twinbee Yahoo! got votes from three people. More people need to play that.

[emphatic]

I'm a little bit embarrassed by the fact the it's only me and JAPJAC that voted for Viewpoint. Hopefully mr.robot will save the day. Good to see that Twinbee Yahoo! got votes from three people. More people need to play that.

Viewpoint is very pretty. Pretty boring.

[Dale]

All these Ikaruga votes make me nauseous though.

yeah how dare these people vote for good games

More like the most overrated game since Gunstar Heroes.

[Dale]

I'm a little bit embarrassed by the fact the it's only me and JAPJAC that voted for Viewpoint. Hopefully mr.robot will save the day. Good to see that Twinbee Yahoo! got votes from three people. More people need to play that.

I like this game a lot. Unfortunately their isn't a top 50. If Boagman votes it will be his number1.

[Ed Oscuro]

If Boagman votes it will be his number1.

So who's putting Vulgarus in the #1 spot? I was kinda surprised to see it in the middle of Rob's list but I shouldn't have been.

[Enhasa]

On another point - wasn't it a bit early for the Top 25 this year? I was surprised it came up so soon.

I checked thanks to easy thread index, and this is actually the latest it's ever been. It's slowly drifted from April to early May to late May to this year. Not complaining one bit, just noting for amusement.

Good to see that Twinbee Yahoo! got votes from three people. More people need to play that.

This just barely missed my list, this or Sexy Parodius have to be my favorite Konami shmups. Other stuff I really wanted to include but couldn't pull the trigger were: 19xx (completely awesome everything, especially presentation, besides stupid 100% scoring system), Raiden DX, P-47 Aces, Pocky and Rocky, Harmful Park (crank dat difficulty), and I dunno what else, guess that's mostly it then lol.

Speaking of which, Dragoforce had a particularly interesting list with Yahho and Metal Black in the top 3, Boogie Wings top 10, and other neat choices. Bill has maybe the most "solid" list, as in something that could look somewhat respectable if it was the actual top 25. Oh yeah I love clp's list but that's cuz it's got Psyvariar and Garegga at the top or something, lol.

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh god, Styx Boagman's list is up. One game. Apparently no other shooters were ever made.

I'm starting to feel space collapsing around myself-

[Enhasa]

Maybe it's a joke. Like Vulgarus. Unless that's not a joke and you just made a typo!

As Captain Commando himself would say:

Capcom's first game was Vulgus, made in 1984!

[Dale]

You didn't see me put that as my number1? It actually fell behind Le Souer two or three years ago into the 2nd spot on my list. It's a choice I've thought about greatly.

[Ed Oscuro]

As Captain Commando himself would say:

Capcom's first game was Vulgus, made in 1984!

Another subtle joke, since Son Son was the first.

I admit Vulgarus is on par with "LOL Micro$oft"
It felt good though.

[Battletoad]

Battle Toad's list is pretty awesome. All these Ikaruga votes make me nauseous though.

Thanks.
The end of my list was a bit complicated. For now I just now ~20 shooters which I would describe as "awesome", so I had to add some "good" ones. I still like Ikaruga, I just don´t like it for score. Wanted to post my list anyways as I didn´t see enough reason why not to.

[Herr Schatten]

But it was already answered by my favorite rule:

09. You may not vote for games that you do not believe are shmups. If you do not think that Granada is a shmup, you may not vote for it. However, as long as the votes of others respect the categories outlined in rule #08, your opinion shall have no bearing on the eligibility of other votes.

You can't lie to yourself, ash.

Yeah, I noticed that rule as well and thought it was well crafted. Nice work, Herr Schatten!

I don't think that I was the one who came up with that particular rule, but I think it's a very good and important one, too.

Oh god, Styx Boagman's list is up. One game. Apparently no other shooters were ever made.

Apparently, he hasn't read the rules for voting. Or maybe he's delivering a joke vote deliberately. Either way, his vote is invalid unless he expands it to 25 games.

[Rob]

I was kinda surprised to see it in the middle of Rob's list but I shouldn't have been.

Because it's good, right? Intense retro.

[boagman]

Oh god, Styx Boagman's list is up. One game. Apparently no other shooters were ever made.

Apparently, he hasn't read the rules for voting. Or maybe he's delivering a joke vote deliberately. Either way, his vote is invalid unless he expands it to 25 games.

Actually, I did read the rules/background, but failed to understand them. I guess it's my fault. My apologies...I guess I can find a way to round out the list, as Viewpoint isn't the only game, nor shooter, ever made. It's just the best of both categories, IMHO. Still never played a more enjoyable game.

If you don't like it, or my undying love for it, *you* get to vote, too. ::rolls eyes:: Besides, I only attempted to vote as a result of a PM I got telling me that I probably should do so.

I do question the "Styx" reference, though. What's that all about?