Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by 8 1/2 »

Jockel wrote:
8 1/2 wrote:My final score was a rather pitiful 52,238,505.
oO
The fuck?
How can you finish the game with such a low score? ^^"
I don't see the 1cc near me anytime soon (ugh stage 4 boss, let alone stage 5), and still i have +60mil on my best runs.
That gives me some hope that one day i might be able to 1cc it myself :mrgreen:
I focused only on survival. I'm usually not much of a "for score" player. So long as I can get to the second extend I don't even consider trying to score, and I just concentrate on staying alive. If you can get 60+ mil then you can definitely do it. Stage 4 boss is piece of cake really once you get him down, though he does require some really touchy little tap-tap-tapping that is easy to screw up.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Dave_K. »

8 1/2 wrote:All told, it took me 23 hours and 55 minutes of game time to go from my first game of Ketsui to clearing the first loop.
Nice job! I'm curious of a couple things.
- Did you watch any Ketsui replays before this (seeing patterns and where to position your ship and such)?
- Did you practice any individual stages via stage select?
- Did you use any continues during your practices?
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by 8 1/2 »

- Did you watch any Ketsui replays before this (seeing patterns and where to position your ship and such)?

I watched the super play DVD once when I got the DS version, but have not watched it since getting the 360 version.

- Did you practice any individual stages via stage select?

Nope. I did full runs for nearly every game. No matter how bad, I played through the whole game. I did however play a lot of the DS version, so I got some early boss-only practice.

- Did you use any continues during your practices?

Yep, continued all I wanted, but didn't allow myself to bomb after using one, thus forcing me to learn everything the hard way.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by man9child »

Cool, congrats. I've got to get back to playing Ketsui.

I stopped playing because I just built a supergun and have been playing the only pcb I own, Strider 2. Also, I had been restarting compulsively if I messed up something in the first stage, so I was making it frustrating on myself. I think I'm going to follow your lead and start playing every game all the way through.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by StarCreator »

That's definitely a strategy I need to consider adopting too - and yeah, it got to the point that I was restarting on the slightest error and not actually enjoying the games anymore.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Zero Gunner »

Zweihander wrote:
jonny5 wrote:in any market, especially video games, buying at launch is usually a bad idea if you are worried about depreciation or price drops down the line, because if you buy it at launch for full retail, you can guarantee the price is gonna go down from there

i would think an experienced 'collector' would have realized this :roll:
Radiant Silvergun, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Ibara, Recca, Gimmick!, Eliminate Down, Rendering Ranger R2, Earthbound, Hyper Duel, Rakugaki Showtime, Judgement Silversword, Dicing Knight, in all likelihood Ketsui Extra, and a shitload of other games would like a word.

While it's a general rule of thumb, it doesn't apply to everything.
Or Sapphire, Shinrei Jusatsushi Taromaru, Mizubaku Kids, Metal Slug 1 AES Home Cart Version, or ....nevermind. But regardless I was simply shocked that a game I bought two copies of (that are still sealed since I've not had time to play it yet) is going for half price a month later....especially given that it's a CAVE title and one that fans have been pleading for a home version of for years. I occasionally buy 2 copies of LE versions of games I'm really excited about....not necessarily because I ever expect to sell one down the road but in case the played copy becomes damaged I have an extra, or in case I find a really good trade, and I don't have to worry about possibly buying it at a higher price or in used condition later. Mostly it's because I held off buying the LE version of Skies of Arcadia in favor of the US release and I've never come across a copy that isn't slightly damaged in some way due to the way the packaging was designed. So I kind of made a rule that I don't delay on LEs and I sometimes grab a second copy also. So I wasn't bothered about the sale because I was planning to make money off Ketsui....game speculating is so random that you'll almost never make any money by preemptively buying games in hopes of them accruing value. Just ask the guy that bought 30 copies of Ikaruga from NCS at launch. I doubt he ever made more that $30-40 of each of those at best yet it probably seemed brilliant to him to buy 30 copies of the sequel to Radiant Silvergun. Had Ikaruga reached RS's value he could have made $6000 or more....I'm sure he never imagined that you'd be able to buy the game on Gamecube the very next year and on sale for $5 on a Microsoft console six years later. I simply never expected Cave games to be so worthless they can't hold their value for more than 30 days....especially given some of the prices for their PS2 titles. But I've learned my lesson. NEVER buy a Cave title at launch. Wait for the instantaneous markdowns to occur.

On a side note Hardcore 101 posted their article on the game:

http://hg101.kontek.net/ketsui/ketsui.htm
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by ncp »

We all see you were trying to make money off it, please stop your shenanigans.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Trevor spencer »

Zero Gunner wrote:[On a side note Hardcore 101 posted their article on the game:

http://hg101.kontek.net/ketsui/ketsui.htm
I enjoyed that review ;) cheers
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Zweihander »

Zero Gunner wrote:
Zweihander wrote:
jonny5 wrote:in any market, especially video games, buying at launch is usually a bad idea if you are worried about depreciation or price drops down the line, because if you buy it at launch for full retail, you can guarantee the price is gonna go down from there

i would think an experienced 'collector' would have realized this :roll:
Radiant Silvergun, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Ibara, Recca, Gimmick!, Eliminate Down, Rendering Ranger R2, Earthbound, Hyper Duel, Rakugaki Showtime, Judgement Silversword, Dicing Knight, in all likelihood Ketsui Extra, and a shitload of other games would like a word.

While it's a general rule of thumb, it doesn't apply to everything.
Or Sapphire, Shinrei Jusatsushi Taromaru, Mizubaku Kids, Metal Slug 1 AES Home Cart Version, or ....nevermind. But regardless I was simply shocked that a game I bought two copies of (that are still sealed since I've not had time to play it yet) is going for half price a month later....especially given that it's a CAVE title and one that fans have been pleading for a home version of for years. I occasionally buy 2 copies of LE versions of games I'm really excited about....not necessarily because I ever expect to sell one down the road but in case the played copy becomes damaged I have an extra, or in case I find a really good trade, and I don't have to worry about possibly buying it at a higher price or in used condition later. Mostly it's because I held off buying the LE version of Skies of Arcadia in favor of the US release and I've never come across a copy that isn't slightly damaged in some way due to the way the packaging was designed. So I kind of made a rule that I don't delay on LEs and I sometimes grab a second copy also. So I wasn't bothered about the sale because I was planning to make money off Ketsui....game speculating is so random that you'll almost never make any money by preemptively buying games in hopes of them accruing value. Just ask the guy that bought 30 copies of Ikaruga from NCS at launch. I doubt he ever made more that $30-40 of each of those at best yet it probably seemed brilliant to him to buy 30 copies of the sequel to Radiant Silvergun. Had Ikaruga reached RS's value he could have made $6000 or more....I'm sure he never imagined that you'd be able to buy the game on Gamecube the very next year and on sale for $5 on a Microsoft console six years later. I simply never expected Cave games to be so worthless they can't hold their value for more than 30 days....especially given some of the prices for their PS2 titles. But I've learned my lesson. NEVER buy a Cave title at launch. Wait for the instantaneous markdowns to occur.

On a side note Hardcore 101 posted their article on the game:

http://hg101.kontek.net/ketsui/ketsui.htm
If it makes you feel any better I bought Wartech: Senko no Ronde when it was released, new, for $60.

Still, I feel I got more than $60 worth of enjoyment out of it already, so that's all that matters to me.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by BrianC »

The Ketsui article is very nice, but some of the comments in the thread at HG101 about it made me roll my eyes.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by ncp »

He's just mad 'cause he can't score :wink:
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Rob »

BrianC wrote:The Ketsui article is very nice, but some of the comments in the thread at HG101 about it made me roll my eyes.
Playing for score isn't part of the modern gaming scene mentality.
Any online shooter (Modern Warfare, Halo, Gears of War, etc.) and other action games have scoring systems. For the unlockables crowd there's also gamerscore. The mentality is definitely in place, people just don't want it from old looking single player games or games that are actually challenging.
After Burner Climax came out, which, despite featuring similar basic ideas - a short game meant to be played over and over to increase scores - has tons of unlockable stuff in form of the EX Options, which gives rewards for accomplishing various goals.
Rewards are: game wins itself for me with jumbo aiming reticle and infinite everything.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Dragoforce »

Funny how he doesn't understand that shmups aren't modern games.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Trevor spencer »

awful fans ? what a cunt

I honestly dont think were a bad bunch here, i rarely have any problems and really only spend most my time on this forum now
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by ncp »

Trevor spencer wrote:awful fans ? what a cunt
i hope the irony here is intentional
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Zero Gunner »

Zweihander wrote:If it makes you feel any better I bought Wartech: Senko no Ronde when it was released, new, for $60.

Still, I feel I got more than $60 worth of enjoyment out of it already, so that's all that matters to me.
Agreed. But you kind of expect wonky stuff to occur when a niche game like Wartech releases in the Western market. Raiden Fighters is a great example. $60+ for the Japanese version or $20 or less for the US release. And Senko no Ronde can be found new for $10 without much effort now (which gave me cause to wait on SnR2 since I already have a pile of as-of-yet-uplayed-shmups waiting to be loved). Granted these games had transitions of months or even a year before they hit those lovely rock-bottom prices which is what makes a supposedly "limited" Cave game getting cut in half so quickly surprising. Really it's not that big a deal, it's just really surprising. Honestly I'm more surprised at this point that I'm still being attacked over a moment of venting (over a surprise markdown that honestly should tick off everyone who bought a copy at least a little) but that's the internet for you....
ncp wrote:We all see you were trying to make money off it, please stop your shenanigans.
Yes....I am the EvILz!!!! All your Cave shmup are belong to me! Bwahahahahahah!!!!

Trevor spencer wrote:awful fans ? what a cunt

I honestly dont think were a bad bunch here, i rarely have any problems and really only spend most my time on this forum now
I post here and on adventuregamers.com and that's it and I agree this is a much better community, albeit much smaller, than something like IGN. I think that comment was about the fact that Cave fans do get rather extreme...which isn't a problem necessarily but it seems like some Cave fans act like they are the only developer in existence and if you're not a 1-CC'ing High Scorer then your life has no meaning....then again a lot of squaresoft and nintendo folks act the same way....
Trevor spencer wrote:
Zero Gunner wrote:[On a side note Hardcore 101 posted their article on the game:

http://hg101.kontek.net/ketsui/ketsui.htm
I enjoyed that review ;) cheers
I agree. It's a good write up. I wonder if anyone going to apologize for lambasting HG101 in that thread a couple months back? I recall that most members here took the absurd point of view that no one at HG101 was a real gamer because they'd never written a Cave article or discussed scoring systems in depth (yeah....like those discussions make people run right out and track down an obscure game they've never heard of...lol). Honestly I think they do a great service and I've discovered a handful of excellent games simply because of their articles that I didn't know existed.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Trevor spencer »

ncp wrote:
Trevor spencer wrote:awful fans ? what a cunt
i hope the irony here is intentional

yeah , i thought it was funny :mrgreen:
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by supergrafx77 »

I don't see the point where this thread is going. Akihabura slashes prices all the time to get rid of stock that is not moving as fast as it should at places like Bikku Kamera and shit. Regardless of Ketsui's cheaper prices now, I guarantee you it will become pretty expensive when the prints are sold out. Especially if it does not make it over to the states/Europe, ect... This isn't some BS sequel that has no retaining value. It is a CAVE game. CAVE is great. All praise CAVE. However, I don't give a flying fuck if the price goes up or down since I bought the game for being Ketsui, a beautiful fucking CAVE game. This isn't some gay ass final fantasy or squaresoft shit, whatever you said.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by EPS21 »

BrianC wrote:The Ketsui article is very nice, but some of the comments in the thread at HG101 about it made me roll my eyes.
Only thing wrong with Cave fans is their cardboard box fetish (not just a Cave thing either). At least HG101 forums got to the right universal conclusion that all fans of any genre have their vocal retarded minority that inaccurately represent the fanbase.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by ncp »

supergrafx77 wrote:I don't see the point where this thread is going. Akihabura slashes prices all the time to get rid of stock that is not moving as fast as it should at places like Bikku Kamera and shit. Regardless of Ketsui's cheaper prices now, I guarantee you it will become pretty expensive when the prints are sold out. Especially if it does not make it over to the states/Europe, ect... This isn't some BS sequel that has no retaining value. It is a CAVE game. CAVE is great. All praise CAVE. However, I don't give a flying fuck if the price goes up or down since I bought the game for being Ketsui, a beautiful fucking CAVE game. This isn't some gay ass final fantasy or squaresoft shit, whatever you said.
...

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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by ChurchOfSolipsism »

I don't see how the thread could be derailed any further, so here we go...
supergrafx77 wrote:This isn't some gay ass final fantasy or squaresoft shit
I keep reading stuff like that on this board all the time... do people really think that playing and/ or liking Ketsui is "manly"? It's a fucking videogame, man. You're not gonna turn into He-man or Peter North because you're good at bashing buttons.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by StarCreator »

ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:You're not gonna turn into He-man or Peter North because you're good at bashing buttons.
My hopes and dreams, ruined ;-;
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Dazzyman »

Guys obviously forgot about all the genres what are based on scoring like oooh I dont know the big bloody Rock Band and Guitar Hero games.

All games are pretty much the same you play to survive and score shmups no different. If he cant see that he doesnt understand games. As for Cave fans being twats Ive never looked at anyone into shumps as a Cave person. Your either into shmups or your not as everyone Ive come across doesnt just play Cave games.

Bit silly article and comments really. Needs to get a few facts right before he puts people down. Either that or hes purposely doing it to get a rise if so jog on m8 not intrested theirs tits all over the internet for everything out their what people like. If you cant see that then more fool you to tarnish everyone with the same brush.

Cant beat a proper unbiased opion as a writer though pml :lol:

As for lack of unlocks etc.. wtf go play the bloody game some more!?!
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Acid King »

I wouldn't bother with it, Brian. It's a useless discussion to take part in. As with any community of people who care about quality within a particular genre or product, such as with beer, coffee, cookware, cars, etc... people outside of that community are going to be dismissive of them and really just not comprehend why anyone cares about nuance.

"Why am I going to pay $50 for a butcher knife when I can get a Ginsu knife and it's bonus knives for $20?"
"Why am I going to pay $10 for a bag of coffee when I can get a bag twice as big for $3?"
"Why am I going to pay $40 for a case of Dogfish Head when I can get a 30 pack of PBR for $15?"

They're using different criteria to to judge their purchases and it's the same with games. As great as it would be to have more people appreciate the myriad differences in gameplay between scrolling shooters, to understand the attraction of score play, and generally appreciate shooting games for what they are, that is balanced, well crafted evolutions of one of the oldest genres in video games, it's just not going to happen. Value is not related to quality for most people. Let's just hope that Cave survives the oncoming shit storm and can find a profitable way to keep putting so much time and money into scrolling shooters because otherwise it's only a matter of time before the genre goes straight to cheap ass, poorly made indie game hell.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by professor ganson »

Nice game so far. Now I just need to get how the scoring works.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Jockel »

ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:It's a fucking videogame, man. You're not gonna turn into He-man or Peter North because you're good at bashing buttons.
i lold.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by emphatic »

Don't know if anyone else has noticed, but the "Aspect ratio" setting for Ketsui is 4:3 or 5:4. I always thought it would be 4:3 or 16:9 for some reason. Putting the game in 5:4 MUCH improves the look of the game on a higher res monitor IMHO.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by Fudoh »

Putting the game in 5:4 MUCH improves the look of the game on a higher res monitor
not in general. You're probably hitting some sweetspot of the game's scaling engine. Just like 720p/Yoko/83%/16:9 hits the sweetspot and eliminates any scaling artefacts on the horizontal axis.

Which combinations of settings (like 720p/Yoko/83%/16:9) were you running when you noticed the improvement ?
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by emphatic »

Fudoh wrote:Which combinations of settings (like 720p/Yoko/83%/16:9) were you running when you noticed the improvement ?
This was on a quad-sync arcade monitor running 1024x768/TATE/94%/4:3/LANCOZ. Nearest neighbour looked really good as well (super sharp, pixelated), but the Lancoz filter gave just enough smoothness to look better not worse. IMHO, the 5:4 aspect can be compared to the TATE vs. TATE HOSEI screen modes in the ARIKA CAVE ports for ESPGALUDA and DDP-DOJ. So it's probably because it's closer to the original hardware aspect.

I found the 5:4 setting in DDP-DOJ BL EX and Mushihimesama Futari as well btw. Don't know if Futari's original resolution is wider than 4:3 though, but Ketsui/ESPGALUDA/DOJ sure is.
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Re: Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

Post by moozooh »

It's probably the same as with Progear, where setting the screen to be wider than 4:3 improves the proportions of bullets (first and foremost) and most in-game graphics, but makes for a rather uncomfortable difference between vertical and horizontal movement speed.
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