Shmupmame 4.2: Lagless Mars Matrix, Strikers 1945, Galaga 88

[Arcatech]

Thats the only fault i can spot on this. I usually like to set up a custom button for like charge shots.

Guess I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth though.

[Pulsewidth]

Great post. Thanks for making this patch. I'll enjoy testing it.

[nimitz]

Small taps are actually possible- the dragon is easier to stop on a dime when you need a small move to go through gaps between bullets. There's none of this "give a little, get a lot" shit going on with movement.

The changes made cannot change the behavior in the way you describe, this is a placebo effect.

Not true at all, at least depending on what he means. If he is trying to simply tap to move small increments this is indeed placebo effect. But if he is talking about actually "stopping on a dime" by releasing the move button and stopping earlier then he is right and this build helps.

Just to make this absolutely plain and clear - there's a few different changes in here, but they mostly amount to the same thing; rendering the sprites a frame or two earlier (At the expense of hw accuracy and synchronisation with backgrounds if used).
That means that you see the baddies/bullets/whatever slightly earlier, that your ship will appear to start/stop moving slightly more responsively. It does not mean that for an input of the same duration the game will overall respond any differently.

The ship will not only "appear" to move more responsively but will move slightly more responsively. And yes an input of the same duration will have the same effect in any build, obviously.

For me, this is not a beneficial change to shmups since it results in the sprites and backgrounds falling out of sync.

I fail to see how the background being imperceptibly out of sync affects the gameplay in any way.

the frame buffer

A 'frame buffer' is something quite specific - and it's not this.

My bad. I meant sprite buffer.


mufunyo: where is that TGM community you speak of, I'm curious.

[mufunyo]

mufunyo: where is that TGM community you speak of, I'm curious.

Mostly buried in the murky depths of Quakenet's IRC network. But we also have a website.

http://tetrisconcept.net/forum

[Obiwanshinobi]

Well, it's a hackjob after all. This delay must've been there for a reason and obviously, for the sake of exactness, the lag added by MAME should be sorted out rather than this. The emulation as such hasn't been improved, but many people's gaming experience clearly has. Those who play emulated games commit such compromises all the time. Aesthetically, this one is pretty harmless. To me these games look the same as before, only feel different/control better this time around.

For me, this is not a beneficial change to shmups since it results in the sprites and backgrounds falling out of sync.

I fail to see how the background being imperceptibly out of sync affects the gameplay in any way.

Maybe, just maybe it could mess with the collision detection whilst navigating a ship through the hazardous environment ("furniture" everywhere, like in R-Type). Dunno, depends how collisions are tied to backgrounds. This should be objectively measurable with step-frame method.
P.S. Okay, I see what it does. When sprites scroll at different speed/in a different direction than the background (that's what most of them do most of the time), it's alright. Only when sprite is supposed to scroll at the exact same speed and in the same direction as the background (destructible scenery bits etc.), it appears to "shiver" a little. That is all. It's pretty apparent in a slideshow mode (pause the game with P, then hold Shift and keep tapping P); pots in Guwange, standing infantrymen and whatnot, they all seem to be "jumping" in slideshow, but when you are watching the attract mode at full speed, it's only a wee bit of "shivering". When you are actually playing, you're focused on the balloons and confetti, stuff moving on screen, which is as smooth as ever.

[Ruldra]

Good news nimitz, I just playback'd a 40-minute inp and it never desynched. I noticed this build doesn't use NVRAM either so I guess it's safe to assume inps won't desynch at all.

[nimitz]

Ruldra : great news, thanks

[Sandlegs]

played esprade more than i have in a couple years last night. was truly a fine experience. guwange was also quite awesome. INSTANT WOLF!

[nimitz]

So, after much help from the guys at mameworld and shmup.com. I finally managed to compile mame plus 99. The 137 patches didn't work so I made new ones and after some testing here's the "Pro" edition of Lagless mame is ready for you guys.

Features :
-Savestate support
-Custom buttons
-Customizable Autofire
-record/playback (untested, but should work fine)
-All mamep99 games unlocked

Download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1i3z5mt0tmd

[Ruldra]

I found something interesting: the readme mentions that the background layer and sprite layer aren't completely synched, but you can't really notice that. Well, when you record something at 30 fps and then watch the video, you can clearly see the desynch...you see all enemies and items going left and right slightly (at least with Zero Wing -- I believe vertical games will have stuff going up and down). It looks a bit odd.

[Smraedis]

Hmm I guess that would make videos look a bit funny too... think I may still test this too, and see what happens.

[LaserGun]

Looks like dicking around with mame and it's lag problems wasn't a waste of time, Nimitz good job

also, quick question, does the .99 version only remove lag from the drivers specified in the .137 version?

[nimitz]

also, quick question, does the .99 version only remove lag from the drivers specified in the .137 version?

Yes, only the specified drivers, nothing else. The rests behaves like mamep 99.

[captpain]

also, quick question, does the .99 version only remove lag from the drivers specified in the .137 version?

Yes, only the specified drivers, nothing else. The rests behaves like mamep 99.

Out of curiosity, why are they enabled? I guess it's for convenience.

For what it's worth, I'd rather have the other games disabled and simply use a different version of MAME for them.

This completely owns, by the way.

[ED-057]

This rules. Here is a mirror for any who'd rather avoid the ad-laden file hosting site.
http://www.hyakushiki.net/shmup/mamep_~1.zip

[jonny5]

probably a stupid question, but which roms do we use with this mamep99 build?

[emphatic]

probably a stupid question, but which roms do we use with this mamep99 build?

The MAME 0.99 ones?

[jonny5]

probably a stupid question, but which roms do we use with this mamep99 build?

The MAME 0.99 ones?

'tis what i assumed....i did say it was a stupid question

can anybody recommend where to get older sets(or individual roms)....i only know where to get current sets

im really only after progear no arashi so if anybody feels like being super nice and hooking a brother up and saving me some searching that would be awesome just shoot me a PM

[nimitz]

I made a mame folder with all the improved shmups in the 99 version for personal use

If anyone is interested here it is:

It's a mame list of all 65 "shmups" (including mercs, outzone) I usually put the version used in the high score threads.
Just put the file in your mame\folders\ directory

Link (This is a .ini file of 633 bytes it's basically a list of game names):
http://www.mediafire.com/?zy1mmw2lkjt

edit: I decided to include everything, including the semi-broken toaplan games

[jonny5]

I made a mame folder with all the improved shmups in the 99 version for personal use

If anyone is interested here it is:

It has 56 "shmups" (including mercs, outzone) I usually put the version used in the high score threads.
ust put the file in your mame\folders\ directory

perfect!!!

thanx so much for this....makes things much easier for me now....lag free(closer anyways) progear definitely peaked my interest

nice work!!

[Keade]

The romset hasn't changed drastically from 0.99 to the current version, but generally speaking, if you need an old ROM, I think there are 2 solutions :
- Get a very very old romset, download the roms updates packs and update (using software such as ClearMAMEpro)
- Get the latest romset and use rollback roms (the inverse). I would go for that solution.

I didn't take time to actually test this but I eventually will : there are a ton of old MARP inps I want to see.

[jonny5]

i plan to grab those roms nimitz posted, delete all but progear and throw it on my mame rig....

im mainly interested to see how it plays compared to the PCB/mame without the driver fixes....

cuz progear in normal mame is annoying.....

[nimitz]

I never posted any roms, what I posted is a "mame folder" which is a list of games to use in a mame gui version to sort games.

[jonny5]

I never posted any roms, what I posted is a "mame folder" which is a list of games to use in a mame gui version to sort games.

yes....my apologies....i just realized that

didnt read your post very carefully(at work)

im setting it all up now....i will post back with my impressions....i havent really played progear (since i sold my PCB) due to the input lag in mame....

[jonny5]

very noticeable improvement on progear

huge thanks for this nimitz!

[orange]

has anyone else had trouble getting 360 sticks to work on this? every controller i have works except my 360 stick

edit: also said stick works on every other version of mame i have tried

[Obiwanshinobi]

If your Windows detect the stick correctly (check up on "game controllers" in the control pannel), you can just use JoyToKey.

[mufunyo]

If your Windows detect the stick correctly (check up on "game controllers" in the control pannel), you can just use JoyToKey.

And induce another 2 frames of lag

[Jockel]

could anyone make a debian package out of it?
pretty pleeease?

[Arcatech]

Is there any way this could be incorporated into GGPO? It would make the online experience that much better.

But I think that program uses FBA or something else like that. too bad...