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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:00 am 


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Despatche wrote:
noone plays games anymore

Perhaps everyone's too busy making them. Not unlike the more literature humankind produces yearly, the less it reads.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:18 am 


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Obiwanshinobi wrote:
Despatche wrote:
noone plays games anymore

Perhaps everyone's too busy making them. Not unlike the more literature humankind produces yearly, the less it reads.

Somehow I doubt most of this forum's too busy making games to play them. The scene would be in a much healthier position if there were more of that creator's mindset within it, as it would mean more shmups to play and more people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to game design and production.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:57 pm 



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I agree with that some aspects are bland. The graphics hardly impress and the music doesn't do much for me.

The game's saving grace is the replayability factor. Hunting down all the R's is fun.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:29 pm 


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Obiwanshinobi wrote:
Despatche wrote:
noone plays games anymore

Perhaps everyone's too busy making them. Not unlike the more literature humankind produces yearly, the less it reads.


*raises hand*

I still play though. Just not nearly as much.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:05 am 



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VanillaLucia wrote:
With the freedom that we are given in R-Type Final, I've found that I'm not one to explore very much once I've already nailed down something extremely powerful and easy to use and with the context of the game and its stages, there is very little done to encourage playing as something else and there is also very little done to make the ships not feel like a skin in the long run.

I also got that feeling of sameness after a while. Everything you can pilot has the same speed, the same hitbox, the same normal shot. Some differentiation there would have been welcome.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:56 am 


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:13 pm 


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Taking a cue from the other thread, I feel like necrothreading this discussion has little to do with Final itself, and a lot more with the question no one dares to spell out, ie was Irem's funeral-march-in-form-of-a-game also the testament of the whole genre?

Could it be a case that a lot of the hatred the game has generated was inconsciously driven by our inner reply "fuck, it can't be the end"... And yet, after mobiles and loli, we resurrect the thread as if we recalled the passing of a dear one. Only, not the game: the genre.

(=edit: of course this does not means by any means something as crude as saying that there weren't awesome games in the genre released after 2004. That would be ridiculous, so don't read that between the lines)
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:51 pm 


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Turrican wrote:
Taking a cue from the other thread, I feel like necrothreading this discussion has little to do with Final itself, and a lot more with the question no one dares to spell out, ie was Irem's funeral-march-in-form-of-a-game also the testament of the whole genre?

Could it be a case that a lot of the hatred the game has generated was inconsciously driven by our inner reply "fuck, it can't be the end"... And yet, after mobiles and loli, we resurrect the thread as if we recalled the passing of a dear one. Only, not the game: the genre.

(=edit: of course this does not means by any means something as crude as saying that there weren't awesome games in the genre released after 2004. That would be ridiculous, so don't read that between the lines)


I'm not sure I'd go that far. Gradius V came out just over a year after Final, and, had the genre officially "died" at that point, it would have been a reasonable high note to send it off, given that it was a good sequel to a game that was part of the genre's genesis. I'd look a bit more internally to Irem and their contributions, and say that Final might not feel like a good send-off to the R-Type franchise, for those who felt that Delta was the high point in the series, that Final may (to some) feel like a step back, so that perceived regression may leave a bad taste in ones mouth, figuratively speaking.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:57 am 


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As a lifelong R-type fanatic, I found the R-type Final kinda semi-satisfying game. Far from perfect, and lot of the criticisms said here are spot on, but I was just glad it was made in the first place. None of the R-type games are really BAD, but none of the sequels either hold a candle to the sensation I had when the first one arrived in the arcades back in the 80's. How can you repeat that? You can't.

I will make a list anyway how I rank them from best to "worst".

1. R-Type
2. R-Type delta
3. R-Type II
4. R-Type Final
5. R-Type III (I HATE the first stage and the last boss, otherwise this would be higher)

R-Type dimensions deserves a special mention, I found the semi-3D graphics quite well done. Shame they didn't add the 2nd loop, and shame that some of the achievements were just plain stupid.

Ps. thank you for banning Klabauter8!


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:47 pm 


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MJR wrote:
As a lifelong R-type fanatic, I found the R-type Final kinda semi-satisfying game. Far from perfect, and lot of the criticisms said here are spot on, but I was just glad it was made in the first place. None of the R-type games are really BAD, but none of the sequels either hold a candle to the sensation I had when the first one arrived in the arcades back in the 80's. How can you repeat that? You can't.

I will make a list anyway how I rank them from best to "worst".

1. R-Type
2. R-Type delta
3. R-Type II
4. R-Type Final
5. R-Type III (I HATE the first stage and the last boss, otherwise this would be higher)

R-Type dimensions deserves a special mention, I found the semi-3D graphics quite well done. Shame they didn't add the 2nd loop, and shame that some of the achievements were just plain stupid.

Ps. thank you for banning Klabauter8!


Probably agree with that list. I think Super is different enough to count as a separate title though, and if it wasn't for the checkpoint issue I'd probably rank that above 2 personally.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:26 am 


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You know, coming from someone who was first exposed to the series with II, I now don't find it objectively better than Final. I guess what I'm trying to say is, when I want classic arcade R-Type, I always get more satisfaction from the original one. On the other hand, while Delta is the undisputable king of console R-type, Final brings enough ideas and themes to the table, to the point that playing just Delta doesn't cancel or subsume the Final experience.

having said that, where does Leo fit in that list?
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:41 am 


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Turrican wrote:
You know, coming from someone who was first exposed to the series with II, I now don't find it objectively better than Final. I guess what I'm trying to say is, when I want classic arcade R-Type, I always get more satisfaction from the original one. On the other hand, while Delta is the undisputable king of console R-type, Final brings enough ideas and themes to the table, to the point that playing just Delta doesn't cancel or subsume the Final experience.

having said that, where does Leo fit in that list?


Good question. I simply forgot about it, because it just does not feel like R-Type, more like a spinoff, like R-Type tactics. But I don't feel like revising the list, since it has more to do with my personal feelings rather than any reliable objective assesment on what R-type game in the series is best. That's why I excluded Super R-type as well. And Game boy versions, and PC-E Cd-Rom version. That could make a good thread though, there are lot of versions which have their own merits and disadvantages.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:02 pm 


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I think there's a lot of subjectivity in this kind of question as well. I've always preferred R-Type II, even though I kind of suck at it, because as a kid, a local bowling alley had the cabinet. I think I probably only had occasion to play the original R-Type on a cabinet one time, but I pumped a lot of quarters into the R-Type II cabinet in town, and despite never making it very far in, I always enjoyed the atmosphere, the "synthesized" vibe the music had, the somewhat muted graphical look, and just the overall feel of the game. But as has been said here, many prefer the original, and I'm guessing it's partially because that's what people played first. Had I played Leo first, and come to the rest of the series later, not knowing about the Force Pod mechanics, I may have been thrown for a loop, and longed for the simplicity of Leo, even though I had a cool "new" mechanic to play with. If you came to Final first, odds are, you like it better than some other entries, if not best, even if you know objectively that it may not be the best in the series.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 10:33 am 


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MJR wrote:
As a lifelong R-type fanatic, I found the R-type Final kinda semi-satisfying game. Far from perfect, and lot of the criticisms said here are spot on, but I was just glad it was made in the first place. None of the R-type games are really BAD, but none of the sequels either hold a candle to the sensation I had when the first one arrived in the arcades back in the 80's. How can you repeat that? You can't.

I will make a list anyway how I rank them from best to "worst".

1. R-Type
2. R-Type delta
3. R-Type II
4. R-Type Final
5. R-Type III (I HATE the first stage and the last boss, otherwise this would be higher)



MJR! Marc, Turrican and FRO too! The old-schoolers are out in force (no pun intended...).

I pretty much agree with that list also, though I might put II before Delta. Definitely the original is my favourite, and both II and Delta play really well. I actually love Final, whatever its flaws may be. It may not play as well as I/II/Delta, but I just enjoy spending time with that game -- everything from the title screen, to the little blurbs at the beginning of the stages, to the moments of emptiness interspersed with the action, the sombre ending, the gallery of 101 ships and weapons, the unlockable Bydo information and ship pictures, and so on. I think it's a great game -- maybe my favourite PS2 game in fact -- and certainly I like it more than III (which is still a good game). I'd probably put Leo at about III's level -- but it's obviously very different.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:10 pm 


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I need to play Leo properly. I remember when I first got MAME, it was one of the first games I downloaded as I'd never seen it other than a few screen shots in C&VG or Mean Machines. But it wasn't what I was expecting from an R-Type game, and I've only gone back sporadically through the years. I'd probably have given it an easier rise had it not been called R-Type, stupid as that sound to my 40 year old self now.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:14 am 


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Haha, me too, probably around 2002 or so I got MAME, and Leo was also one of the first games I wanted (Xexex -- which I knew as Orius -- was another). Were the pictures I saw in VG&CE or in EGM back in 1991/92? I don't remember . . . but like you, Leo was only pictures to me.

When I loaded it with a friend of mine -- an excellent R-Typer actually, but he too had never seen Leo -- we were absolutely blown away by those graphics. But by the time we'd credit-fed our way to the end, we weren't as impressed. I think it's a very good game, but it's R-Type in name only.

III is the weird one for me. Whereas I and II are obviously cut from the same cloth, as to an extent Delta and Final are as well, III looks and feels quite different from both its predecessors and its sequels. I used to use the Cyclone Force all the time in that one, but recently I used the Standard Force and I enjoyed it more. But for me it's still a good game, not a great one (the only game in the main series I would describe that way).


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:09 am 


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Bananamatic wrote:
i'm more interested in what is the dumb pink sweets trick
not interested in playing it, just curious

From what I understand it's not really just a trick, but kind of a different playstyle that involves a lot of button mashing at the start and suiciding throughout the run.
Unfortunately I don't know how PS works so I don't understand anything about it.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 2:41 pm 


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imo R-Type Final would benefit a lot from improving just one single aspect: the soundtrack
playing it is like marching through a funeral, honestly

this is the same problem I see in titles that could be potentially more fun if only they had decent to good OSTs, e.g. Thunder Force VI and Sine Mora
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:13 am 


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Kollision wrote:
imo R-Type Final would benefit a lot from improving just one single aspect: the soundtrack
playing it is like marching through a funeral, honestly

this is the same problem I see in titles that could be potentially more fun if only they had decent to good OSTs, e.g. Thunder Force VI and Sine Mora


I agree that a good OST goes a long way towards improving a game. I too was disappointed about Final's soundtrack initially -- especially as compared with the incredible Delta soundtrack. But then, the whole "funeral" thing started to make more sense to me: the end of the Bydo, the end of the pilot who defeats the Bydo, the end of the R-Type series itself. Even -- in retrospect, and along with Gradius V, and recognizing certain later exceptions like TFVI -- the end of an entire era for the genre. The Final OST is not something I'd listen to on its own, but I've come to appreciate it in this context.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:19 pm 


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Bydobasher wrote:
Kollision wrote:
imo R-Type Final would benefit a lot from improving just one single aspect: the soundtrack
playing it is like marching through a funeral, honestly

this is the same problem I see in titles that could be potentially more fun if only they had decent to good OSTs, e.g. Thunder Force VI and Sine Mora


I agree that a good OST goes a long way towards improving a game. I too was disappointed about Final's soundtrack initially -- especially as compared with the incredible Delta soundtrack. But then, the whole "funeral" thing started to make more sense to me: the end of the Bydo, the end of the pilot who defeats the Bydo, the end of the R-Type series itself. Even -- in retrospect, and along with Gradius V, and recognizing certain later exceptions like TFVI -- the end of an entire era for the genre. The Final OST is not something I'd listen to on its own, but I've come to appreciate it in this context.


I have a CD I made of the soundtrack that I used to use as background music, but when I tried listening in my car, it fell flat. It works well as atmospheric filler, but little beyond that.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:53 pm 



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It's not a bad game (no R-Type game is, not even Super) but it's got it's priorities wrong. It seems more preoccupied with waving farewell to the world and setting a this-will-never-be-beaten record for ships than, you know, delivering a fun shoot-em-up. How about a splash of colour? How about offering more than the genre staple 8 stages? How about giving us a 2-player mode? It's the 21st century after all. Furthermore, give us some action.
How many times can you work your way through those uninspiring stages? Certainly not 101 times.
A better approach would have been perhaps giving 50 ships and doubling the stage count.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:02 pm 


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tizerist wrote:
It's not a bad game (no R-Type game is, not even Super) but it's got it's priorities wrong. It seems more preoccupied with waving farewell to the world and setting a this-will-never-be-beaten record for ships than, you know, delivering a fun shoot-em-up. How about a splash of colour? How about offering more than the genre staple 8 stages? How about giving us a 2-player mode? It's the 21st century after all. Furthermore, give us some action.
How many times can you work your way through those uninspiring stages? Certainly not 101 times.
A better approach would have been perhaps giving 50 ships and doubling the stage count.


Agreed, I can't replay Final as often as I/II/Delta, but my brother and I still had fun acquiring all those ships. However, I do appreciate how you can switch ships whenever you continue or even at the end of stages. I got much more use out of ships that way than if I had to use the same ship until you started a fresh game.

I do love the idea of 50 ships and double the stages though! Gee, that would have been awesome....


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:17 pm 


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We deal with personal opinions here and each head has a sentence.

I particularly like R-Type Final. By the way, I like all the games in this iconic series!

My ranking of the best for the "worst":

1. R-Type Delta: for me, the most impressive of the series and one of the great horizontal shmups of all time. Irem's masterpiece!;

2. R-Type: the genesis of the series in the form of an absolute classic. If Gradius was Super Mario World, then R-Type was Sonic The Hedgehog;

3. R-Type III - The Third Lightning: developed especially for Super NES. Irem cleverly knew how to take advantage of the unique hardware features of this amazing console, presenting cool effects and a fluidity far superior to the previous game of this system, Super R-Type;

4. R-Type Final: contains an immense variety of ships each with its own characteristics and it's fun to continue in the game until unlock all of them, although this requires good doses of patience and perseverance. Yes, it's far from the best PS2 shmups - this position belongs with praise to the incredible Gradius V with the notable Cave´s darlings DoDonPachi DaiOuJou and Mushihimesama coming after - even with slowdowns, certain uninspired stages and any other claim, R-Type Final has Irem's DNA and consequently is a good match.

5. R-Type II: about two to three steps below the original, but still very good;

6. Super R-Type: an interesting mix of the R-Type II's stages ported in a poorly manner for the Super NES, resulting in heavy slowdowns and some other problems. However, there is a highlight that I think is a consensus in this one: the great soundtrack, beautifully crafted and using masterfully the fantastic SNES's Sound Chip. Even with all the problems, a good and fun game;

7. R-Type Leo: I felt in this one an immense absence of the force, suppressing a major strategic feature of the series. Nevertheless, R-Type Leo is fun and beautiful, but enters the last position on my list.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:46 am 


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You're right about the soundtrack on Super, it's a good one. I never think about that game; and haven't played it in many years. But I do remember that soundtrack, still.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:34 pm 


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Bydobasher wrote:
You're right about the soundtrack on Super, it's a good one. I never think about that game; and haven't played it in many years. But I do remember that soundtrack, still.


I own the original American cartridge and hear it running on my Super NES (first model) is really a delight! I would love to see Irem launch a collection containing all the games in the series for current systems and, of course, correcting errors like adding checkpoints and eliminating slowdowns in Super R-Type. I think a collection under these conditions would have a nice acceptance in the shmup community, but the release should be extended to the US at least and not those annoying collections restricted only to Japan.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:54 am 



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I think it's fair to say though, that Delta puts Final in a headlock, and then performs a suplex piledriver tombstone on it. Final doesn't even wake up in time for the count. :D


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:31 pm 


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Kobayashi wrote:
I own the original American cartridge and hear it running on my Super NES (first model) is really a delight! I would love to see Irem launch a collection containing all the games in the series for current systems and, of course, correcting errors like adding checkpoints and eliminating slowdowns in Super R-Type. I think a collection under these conditions would have a nice acceptance in the shmup community, but the release should be extended to the US at least and not those annoying collections restricted only to Japan.


While it's not quite what you're looking for, CastleMania Games is doing a licensed, legit SNES cartridge with both Super R-Type and R-Type III on it, which is up for pre-order:

https://castlemaniagames.com/shop?olsPa ... ectors-set

I pre-ordered mine a couple months ago, because it's way cheaper than acquiring R-Type III legitimately, and since it's licensed, it's a win-win.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:36 pm 


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Wow, that's cool. I didn't know about CastleMania games . . . seems they do some interesting things.

I just had a go at Super R-Type in an emulator, promptly died on the first boss, and then remembered why I don't play this one much. What could they have been thinking when they eliminated checkpoints? It's just bizarre....


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:36 pm 



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Play with save states. Otherwise it’s stupidly hard.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:56 pm 


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tizerist wrote:
Play with save states. Otherwise it’s stupidly hard.


I could respond in a snarky fashion, with "git gud" but I know what you mean. I'm working on the original R-Type now, and it can be brutal until you learn the paths. I would say the same for Super R-Type; it's more painful, because it means you'll have to learn a stage in its totality in order to reach the boss, then hone that stage skill while learning the boss pattern. It's not ideal, but it's doable. I'm finding out quickly that persistence pays off. For years, I hit a wall with Stage 3 in R-Type, and couldn't ever figure out how to get through the stage w/o being reckless. But I'm now consistently getting to the end of Stage 5 on 1 credit, after only 3 weeks of play, averaging *maybe* an hour a day. I suspect by the end of the month, I'll at least have the first loop figured out.
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