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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:18 am 


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Klabauter8 wrote:
Shmups community is hipster-central. It's full of retro hipsters who dislike games merely for being 3D or being relatively popular. Either this or they dislike them because they don't have waifus in them. Or maybe because they are not "hardcore" enough. They spend a shitton of money on PCBs and whine about the genre dying, but not buying a single fucking game on Steam, because Steam is not "underground" enough for them. It's not a big surprise to me many here shit a game like R-Type Final or Silpheed.


Don't be such a sauerkraut.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:22 am 


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:26 am 


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maximo310 wrote:

Don't be such a sauerkraut.

Also stfu. Americans are nothing but retarded kike slaves. Go and die for Israel you fucking mutt.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:51 am 


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The forum doesn't really need kneejerk 4chan shitposts to spur conversation.

Klabauter8 wrote:
I am totally relaxed. I am just very direct and don't beat around the bush when expressing my thoughts.


If these are your thoughts, you should spend some more time beating around that bush and do yourself a favor. You're better at praising R-Type Final than trying to imitate "Anonymous' dank post #14023059".
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:59 am 


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Klabauter8 wrote:
Either this or they dislike them because they don't have waifus in them.

But everyone here told me that lolis killed shmups
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:39 am 


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Klabauter8 is now banned. His posts and behaviour make it obvious he's not the type of person we want to have here.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:58 am 


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Jesus fucking christ, what is it about this forum that makes people go here to snap? Thinking about all the people that have actually contributed to conversations with interesting information and thoughtful observations, only to be banned later on due to some absurd outburst revealing their horrible personality.

Not that "45 minutes of boss milking is great" counts as a thoughtful observation of couse.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:13 am 


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this is your brain on ikaruga


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:26 am 


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I find it remarkable how Banana is a troll clever enough not to get banned from the forum. Not that it is that hard, but apparently Klabauter didn't manage to do the same.

Too bad to lose another Ikaruga fan over here, but oh well. He's also literally the most unreasonably aggressive person I have seen in a long while.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:43 am 


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Bananamatic wrote:
this is your brain on ikaruga

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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:49 am 


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Plasmo wrote:
I find it remarkable how Banana is a troll clever enough not to get banned from the forum. Not that it is that hard, but apparently Klabauter didn't manage to do the same.

Too bad to lose another Ikaruga fan over here, but oh well. He's also literally the most unreasonably aggressive person I have seen in a long while.

Don't be unfair to him. Banana isn't nearly retarded and insane enough a troll to compare with people from the innermost circles of hell at that shmupg dump, like that 'kraut' who just got banned or the metastasized brain tumor Cee that's practically their guru.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:58 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Plasmo wrote:
I find it remarkable how Banana is a troll clever enough not to get banned from the forum. Not that it is that hard, but apparently Klabauter didn't manage to do the same.

Too bad to lose another Ikaruga fan over here, but oh well. He's also literally the most unreasonably aggressive person I have seen in a long while.

Don't be unfair to him. Banana isn't nearly retarded and insane enough a troll to compare with people from the innermost circles of hell at that shmupg dump, like that 'kraut' who just got banned or the metastasized brain tumor Cee that's practically their guru.


True, but I like to pick on him just because. Banana is actually a cool guy. He's just too shy to openly express his love for me.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:06 am 


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I thought you're the type who doesn't want things to be public


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:35 pm 


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Plasmo wrote:
Banana is actually a cool guy. He's just too shy to openly express his love for me.


it's because you haven't offered up that donpachi replay as a love offering yet
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:14 pm 


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One day in the distant future.

In an alternate universe.

It might theoretically happen.

Or not.


But I don't think Banana is talking about the Donpachi replay anyway, since he has no interest in that game afaik. And besides, there's a public screening at Stunfest, so anyone who is interested can just watch it there.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:41 pm 


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unfortunately not everyone is blessed with the time or money to afford a luxury like attending Stunfest

but I am sure you will provide a public recording or allow one at Stunfest of course
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 5:01 pm 


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i'm more interested in what is the dumb pink sweets trick
not interested in playing it, just curious


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:58 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
i'm more interested in what is the dumb pink sweets trick
not interested in playing it, just curious

I thought we were just referring to "Pink Sweets has a lot of boss milking (so it's okay that R-Type Final has boss milking)"

I assume Pink Sweets boss milking is more interesting than 45+ minutes of doing the same really easy shit over and over again, but having never played it at a remotely high level, I couldn't say.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:00 am 


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Before Klabauter8 got banned from here and Icarus' stream, I had a brief exchange with them on Youtube while they were being pointlessly aggressive towards Trap. I said 'there's no need to get your berries in a bunch', but now I see he's bunched his berries so tightly they've burst. Now there's berry mess all over the table.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:29 am 


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There's a line between being "very direct" and constantly getting sidetracked by the opportunity to throw whatever slurs you can think of at people you don't like. It's not even that fine a line, but apparently it's too fine for some people to notice.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:12 am 


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Austin wrote:
God, this is some of the most face-palm worthy shit I have ever read on this forum. Get over yourself, dude.

You definitely didn't read that post, and you probably didn't even read the bit you quoted, so why should I care about what you think?

Special World wrote:
I thought we were just referring to "Pink Sweets has a lot of boss milking (so it's okay that R-Type Final has boss milking)"

Actually, it's "R-Type in general has a lot of checkpoint milking, so it's okay that Final has a lot of checkpoint milking" and "it's silly to rag on a game for being dumb (but not broken) while trying to defend a game that's dumber (and arguably broken sort of)". There's also "Final's problem is not that big of deal because it applies to a very specific part of the game that you don't even have to partake in" and "we could absolutely ban the Final exploit like we're encouraged to do with every other game, even ones that actually counterstop".

People make this a lot harder than it is because noone plays games anymore, and because people have needless double standards for different games. The Final exploit is a red herring; if it was not in the game at all, we'd still have these threads.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:48 pm 


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I wanted to share my experiences with R-Type Final as it was the first R-Type I've owned (but I've played every other R-Type via emulators or by relatives who had the games) and I've greatly enjoyed it. Though, when I think back on it, most of me liking R-Type Final was probably due to the fact that I was much younger and was not exposed to very much (and even did not play very much of the other games), and that this was the "last" R-Type as I knew it. It's been about ten years since I've last played it and there's so much I would want to change to the game because there are things I've wanted to see and there are things I actually did not like very much in retrospect.

As an atmospheric game, I feel that R-Type Final did well for its time as it was much more "ambient" and more haunting but that makes me question whether or not they could have done more than what they did. To start, I liked the music because when I first listened to the music it was very different from the previous R-Type games and I thought of it as a novelty. But this changed over the years when I listened to music from other people and realized that most of what R-Type Final had in its soundtrack consisted of loops, samples, and very little "substance" in the melodies that do exist. Stage 3.0 is a stage I recall taking hours to complete because I used the exploit to build playtime to unlock the 101 ships and would camp the top-left corner before the boss would trigger and would always be stuck listening to the stage theme repeating four-or-five chords and I eventually got annoyed of the music because there wasn't much to it other than the brass and string instruments playing the same chords together and drawing it out. While this served as my musical influence when I attempted composing music, I learned very quickly that having very slow chords and nothing else in the background (and later having orchestral percussion going at it on a repetitive loop) does not result in very engaging or interesting music. It could be "atmospheric," but if we were in a first-person situation and had to think of a song that would come to mind or if you were listening to what the ambience would sound like in the background, the Stage 3.0 music would not be the sort of fit I would be looking for at all especially when compared to the future music in R-Type Tactics and R-Type Tactics II. I spent so much of my younger years listening to this game's soundtrack and being inspired by it, but the unfortunate truth was that most of the soundtrack I would listen to would be of about two or three songs, most of which don't play in the normal game (specifically the Stage F-C's initial music, the AI Battle's menu music and the Upper Class AI Battle music). In all honesty nowadays, my interest in the soundtrack is more to figure out what loops were used because I've been curious of seeing where else they've been used and seeing where they originated because most of R-Type Final's music is built from being a simple and short loop of these sounds.

I personally did not have very many issues with the actual gameplay but my issues I do have come with the later options of ships in the game as well as how things were rebalanced or simply altered to fit the game's format. I feel that some of the ships should have had more references to their legacies or should have new stories to make them seem relevant to previous games as the R-13 from R-Type Delta was only unlocked the moment you completed Stage 3.5 yet you can unlock most of the other ships from R-Type Delta beforehand just by playing as other ships for a set period of time or by completing specific stages. For me, I would have loved for each ship to have a reason to play through a stage for a challenge and for the atmospheric experience as I've almost always played through Stage 3.5 using the RX-12. I would have loved for the R-9Leo to have its gameplay from R-Type Leo by not having a force unit and removing that safety from the players and as a result potentially have an alternate ending because it can't defeat the final boss in Stage F-A or for the R-90 from R-Type III to be capable of swapping wave cannons and selecting which force units to use instead of having to separate them into two separate ships when the second version is already extremely overpowered. Coming from R-Type Delta, the gameplay then feels neutered because the slower pacing and the slower speed makes playing ships like the R-13 less fun and less frantic because it takes longer to charge and because there unfortunately is less strategy in needing to hook the force unit to enemies while using the chain to stop waves. While I'm not too upset with the slower pacing of the game, I am personally more upset with the lack of options available to the player to tinker with some of the game's more interesting equipment because the wave cannons that require the force unit and the ships that had two wave cannons (as well as visual transformations) were neat to me but were so late into the game and don't share the same firepower that other ships have to the point where it wasn't viable for me to consider playing as them when I'm plowing through enemies with the R-902 with the ability to one-shot everything and have an extremely safe and controllable force unit while preparing that one-shot kill. While I'm not saying that ships like the R-99 shouldn't exist (because it's what I would consider to be the "signature" ship in the game), I feel that there should be much more in the way of balancing the game's stages, enemy encounters, and the gimmicks between different wave cannons and force units to give a reason to play the ships other than to simply unlock other ships through playtime. I would love if there were more sections in the game beyond Stage F-A and F-C that could be risky to an R-902 to make both the Giga Wave Cannon and Cyclone Force potentially not viable but as far as I could tell in my experience there is nothing in the game that really poses a threat to having those two together. Though with this approach, I feel we could potentially expect something like Dariusburst's Chronicle Mode to run through stages with fixed equipment just for a challenge or something to do. With the freedom that we are given in R-Type Final, I've found that I'm not one to explore very much once I've already nailed down something extremely powerful and easy to use and with the context of the game and its stages, there is very little done to encourage playing as something else and there is also very little done to make the ships not feel like a skin in the long run.

I spent my teenage years playing R-Type Final and I still have very fond memories of it, but I believe enough time has passed for me to acknowledge that while I enjoyed the game there is so much more that Irem could have done and still can do even if this is "the end." And while other games have solved some of the issues I have with R-Type Final, I would still love and hope to see another R-Type game show up in some form just because this was among the first shoot'em ups I've ever played and I'm grateful it brought me this far in my life.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:32 am 


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But that's the entire problem: any positive remark on this game involves this nonsense about "Irem could have done more". More what? Noone ever explains, but they do keep asking for things that not even shmup developers in 2018 could do, and that no game has actually done because it's ridiculous. The whole point of having the R-13 behind stage 3.5 is... as a shoutout to Delta, exactly what you were asking for. You want every ship line in the game to have its own unique stage? Yeah, good fucking luck designing that. The Leo is in the game even though it has no "reason" to be, and they even gave it a Force, just like they gave all the other cameo ships, because they pretty much had to; Final is actually designed around having a Force, unlike Leo or Gallop or whatever. Final already has a bunch of stages, even branching paths. None of the previous games do anything like this, but you're still saying this isn't good enough? You're honestly taking issue with very necessary changes? You're blaming the developers for your own unwillingness to experiment?

Your post is not unique. How could it be, when this is a topic dedicated to posts like that? If this is why "R-Type Final really sucks", then people are just being assholes and don't deserve games like Final. That "dream game" they want wouldn't work because noone would buy it, they'd just say it's not good enough. You can't just demand more like that, there's no more blood to squeeze.

Shmups were basically dead by the early '00s. A lot of arcade devs disappeared around the turn of the millenium, and all that was really left were groups who were able to find a very specific niche. And even then, CAVE almost died. If it wasn't for DDP2 and IGS basically bailing them out, the genre would have died years ago and we probably wouldn't have had these forums since, like, 2005. In spite of this, Irem decided to make a game that was bigger than anything else they've done, then finally call it quits.

I feel like I'm talking to the Mega Man fans circa 2012, when they didn't realize that their series was dead. This genre is dead, guys! I hope we all understand this, even if we don't want to do anything about it. It's dead because, I guess, CAVE is dead. This forum used to be a lot more active and a lot more interested in even little doujin games coming out, but not anymore. I don't hear anyone talking about Outside or Zedius, and it took forever for anyone to actually talk about Eden's Eclipse and Blue Wish Desire. And it's not just here, it's anywhere; this forum is the only real English-speaking spot on the net to actually talk about these games, and people are mostly leaving, not really joining.

Here's what Final really looks like:

1. It's not as good as Delta, but Delta is so far above most games in the genre that it's basically impossible to outdo it just like that. Rest assured that noone else has tried.
2. Just play the game with the R-9A or the other starter ships. They are given to you for a reason. If you refuse to do that and even blame the developers for something, that's 100% your problem.
3. Someone complaining about things that they'd normally praise in other games for being worse about it does not help their point in the slightest. Whine about Final stage 1 as this major thing that brings the entire game down? You better whine about III stage 1 much harder, and start thinking about putting the game under Final for it. I'm not even talking about III stage 4 either.

In a conversation where everyone's just dogpiling a game for being "bad", people need to put the flaky opinions aside and start looking at the facts. If you're gonna start comparing a game to other games, you'd better fucking know about all games mentioned
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:26 am 


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So nice to see my old thread back. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:29 am 


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Despatche wrote:
It's certainly a better game than III at least. III is just misery, even after stage 1.


:shock:

Madness.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:35 am 


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I never played any r-type game
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:20 am 


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Everyone likes to see you angry too, so it works out!

evil_ash_xero wrote:
:shock:

Madness.

And right after you posted that, you posted:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
I don't. I keep mixing up the shrapnel for some of the bullets. Drives me nuts.

Anyway, R-Type III is the game that has R-Type III stage 4 in it, which is a lot worse than anything you think is in Final.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 am 


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Despatche wrote:
Your post is not unique. How could it be, when this is a topic dedicated to posts like that? If this is why "R-Type Final really sucks", then people are just being assholes and don't deserve games like Final. That "dream game" they want wouldn't work because noone would buy it, they'd just say it's not good enough. You can't just demand more like that, there's no more blood to squeeze.


Mind you, I did not jump into this thread to bash R-Type Final but I am not here to praise it either for being the "perfect" shoot'em up and entry to R-Type that could have ever happened. I am very grateful that Irem was able to pull off what they could and create the game that we ended up with because that game was among the few shoot'em ups I have actually owned and played. The reason why I mentioned being wishful about the cameo ships having more is simply that - I feel it would be neat to see more being done for the cameo ships just because it's even more of a nod than what already is. I don't feel it's a crime or something to be punished for to be wishful on what could have been even after seeing the results. I have the feeling that many of the people who worked on this game may have wanted more - and simply couldn't do it because of one constraint or another. Maybe the music is simply the way it was because Irem opted for that style for this game and onwards - or maybe it had something to do with their budget. There are so many "what-ifs" that this game brings to me and I don't feel there's harm in speculating on what could have been even when I already enjoy what is and what has been.

Despatche wrote:
And it's not just here, it's anywhere; this forum is the only real English-speaking spot on the net to actually talk about these games, and people are mostly leaving, not really joining.


I feel this is extremely normal in just about any community and not just those in shoot'em ups. Everything comes and goes and things change but I feel that it's impossible to be able to say whether or not that is for the best. It's amazing to me that games like Dariusburst made it out of Japan and that I've ended up double-dipping on it because I have relatives who already identify so greatly with the game and it's amazing that I can still find someone to talk about the games I played in my childhood with. I don't feel it's right to be particularly critical of people who want to recall their fondness for games they like and their criticisms for games they didn't like. Otherwise to moderate and to control what people "ought" to believe and what they ought to think in order to be a part of the community or to be part of even a dead community is not only elitist but also extremely counterproductive.

Despatche wrote:
Here's what Final really looks like:

1. It's not as good as Delta, but Delta is so far above most games in the genre that it's basically impossible to outdo it just like that. Rest assured that noone else has tried.
2. Just play the game with the R-9A or the other starter ships. They are given to you for a reason. If you refuse to do that and even blame the developers for something, that's 100% your problem.
3. Someone complaining about things that they'd normally praise in other games for being worse about it does not help their point in the slightest. Whine about Final stage 1 as this major thing that brings the entire game down? You better whine about III stage 1 much harder, and start thinking about putting the game under Final for it. I'm not even talking about III stage 4 either.


1. I don't feel like I can rate whether or not I liked R-Type Delta more or less than R-Type Final and I don't feel I can qualitatively say the same in comparing the games from one another. Each game in the R-Type franchise has something very different to offer and every game does something that one game does not just as much as it doesn't do something that the other games do offer. Given the high praise that R-Type Delta has and how different it was from the rest of the R-Type games, it doesn't take much to realize that "statistically" it is impossible to match that kind of effort and experience. As a result I don't feel it's fair to say one game was better than the other - but it's ridiculous to equate this to meaning "but you can't criticize that one thing that happened because you liked it more or you liked it less."

2. On my very first playthrough of the game, I was loyal to the R-9A and stuck to it for the entire first run before dabbling and playing with the other ships. My blame isn't on the developers or even other players, but rather that in some way if it were possible for a sequel of any sort (or even for future video game design in learning by experience and by seeing what others have done), I would love to have seen more variance in the gameplay based on what the player is using. As I have mentioned, R-Type Final already tried this on very few and specific instances and I liked them. But in the greater scheme of things, there are many more games that have conveniently adopted that as well and it's neat to me to be able to see that happening in other games (for instance how Dariusburst makes each ship play very differently to the extent that some ships have different strategies for fighting bosses and dealing with hordes of enemies). I'm not bashing Irem for "not doing enough" but rather speculating on what "could have" been if it were the case that Irem decided to try mixing different mechanics for ships on a greater level than they already did. Of course, if that were the case, then the game would not have been the R-Type Final I spent so much time playing.

3. I don't know if you were trying to responding to me in this, but I really liked R-Type Final's first stage and especially loved returning to it in R-Type Tactics II. I thought it was a neat blend of familiarizing the player with what they can expect to deal with and at the same time keeping the same sort of atmosphere the previous games have had. R-Type III's first stage to me had always come off to me as being one of my favorite first stages in a shoot'em up because the way the stage is laid out and the way the stage prepares the player for the game always had me feeling like I was ready to be the one fighting the Bydo. While of course every R-Type seemed to start off with that, my critique of R-Type Final's first stage is what I feel to be the intended goal and reaction Irem may have wanted. In all that shock in realizing that you're not being blasted with rock music or something upbeat like the previous games, you're set exploring something and investigating that happened and there is no pre-emptive fanfare for a tragedy.

Despatche wrote:
In a conversation where everyone's just dogpiling a game for being "bad", people need to put the flaky opinions aside and start looking at the facts. If you're gonna start comparing a game to other games, you'd better fucking know about all games mentioned


I'm personally very curious of what these "facts" of yours are because I find it extremely difficult to factually engage in a discussion of what is "good" and what is "bad" when this topic was already grounded on subjective experience. Unless by some means you can tell me why I am wrong about my personal experience with this game, R-Type Final is my favorite of the series simply because to me this game encapsulates what R-Type is to me. Maybe I'm not a really a "fan" of shoot'em ups and maybe I've just spent my childhood playing the wrong games, but I personally don't agree with your bar for knowing the games mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:31 am 


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just ignore him, he's the weird dude you hang out with just so he doesn't shoot up the place


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final really sucks
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:51 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
just ignore him, he's the weird dude you hang out with just so he doesn't shoot up the place

Cool mirroring, bro.

VanillaLucia wrote:
Mind you, I did not jump into this thread to bash R-Type Final but I am not here to praise it either for being the "perfect" shoot'em up and entry to R-Type that could have ever happened.

Neither am I... that's one part of the problem. This is not "people who like the game" versus "people who dislike the game".
VanillaLucia wrote:
I don't feel it's right to be particularly critical of people who want to recall their fondness for games they like and their criticisms for games they didn't like. Otherwise to moderate and to control what people "ought" to believe and what they ought to think in order to be a part of the community or to be part of even a dead community is not only elitist but also extremely counterproductive.

Here's another part of the problem, that "criticism" part. There's a huge difference between a personal dislike and a genuine problem with the game. The former is not criticism, never has been, and would drive developers insane if they ever had to take it seriously. The latter is criticism, but people have this really bad habit of making personal dislikes out to be genuine problems with the game.

So no, it's not elitist to ask people what words mean, especially when they seem to be posting yet another wall of personal likes or dislikes that's making itself out to be The Word on a given game. You know, like what's been going on in this thread about R-Type Final.
VanillaLucia wrote:
Each game in the R-Type franchise has something very different to offer and every game does something that one game does not just as much as it doesn't do something that the other games do offer.

This isn't really true. R-Type and R-Type II have way too much in common, and Delta and Final have way too much in common. For the record, Super R-Type and III also have certain details in common... I think they share staff.
VanillaLucia wrote:
As a result I don't feel it's fair to say one game was better than the other - but it's ridiculous to equate this to meaning "but you can't criticize that one thing that happened because you liked it more or you liked it less."

Yes, you very much can, and should. Comparing reactions to the same thing being executed in the same way, or something being executed in a better or worse way, is a very important tool to wading through the stereotypes and tradition that piles up in large and old communities.
VanillaLucia wrote:
My blame isn't on the developers or even other players, but rather that in some way if it were possible for a sequel of any sort (or even for future video game design in learning by experience and by seeing what others have done), I would love to have seen more variance in the gameplay based on what the player is using.

You're asking for something that's extremely difficult and arguably impossible, given the state of the gaming market. Your speculation is someone else's insane demands.
VanillaLucia wrote:
R-Type III's first stage to me had always come off to me as being one of my favorite first stages in a shoot'em up because the way the stage is laid out and the way the stage prepares the player for the game always had me feeling like I was ready to be the one fighting the Bydo.

Try playing R-Type III seriously for a while. You're gonna get real sick of stage 1 real fast. No other stage 1 in the entire series has this effect.
Despatche wrote:
I'm personally very curious of what these "facts" of yours are because I find it extremely difficult to factually engage in a discussion of what is "good" and what is "bad" when this topic was already grounded on subjective experience. Unless by some means you can tell me why I am wrong about my personal experience with this game, R-Type Final is my favorite of the series simply because to me this game encapsulates what R-Type is to me. Maybe I'm not a really a "fan" of shoot'em ups and maybe I've just spent my childhood playing the wrong games, but I personally don't agree with your bar for knowing the games mentioned.

As usual, someone thinks I'm here for a fight. That's yet another part of the problem: any opposition to the idea of wanton "opinion" is seen as fighting words.

I don't have the slightest clue how to answer any sentence of this paragraph, because you're talking about something so fundamentally different. I also don't have the slightest clue how to rephrase what I've said so that you understand what I'm saying, because as far as I can tell I've explained it as simply as I can. I do not know your personal definitions, I only really know mine. Sorry.
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