7th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Results

Post by **system11** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:51 pm

charlie chong wrote:proof pics please. i really don't care what you think of "eurotrash" like me elixir but to say that 90% of the people who voted for ketsui haven't played it properly is just bullshit.
oh yeah i'm so upset i cant get on an internet forum . don't you think i would get the internet at home if i cared that much.it's only £20 a month

I would have said about 50% haven't played it myself.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:52 pm

How am I meant to provide pictures of people not playing Ketsui?

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:58 pm

Elixir wrote:How am I meant to provide pictures of people not playing Ketsui?

Then don't make claims that you can't verify.

There were 36 people that voted for Ketsui. I can immediately name more than 4 that have played it extensively and owned it - and that's just off the top of my head (and personally). Bang goes your "90% haven't played it", huh?

The truth is, we have no idea how many people voted for it and hadn't played it. Then again, we also have no idea how many people voted for Battle Garegga and haven't played it thoroughly either.

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:10 pm

i wanted proof pics of elixir's ketsui score not pics of people not playing ketsui.

whatever you think of me i voted before the ketsui hype thread and even said in the kdf thread that i wanted it to gain it's place fairly and squarely because i believe thats what the game deserves .

my conscience is clear

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:16 pm

The difference is that Battle Garegga was not bandwagoned into first position like Ketsui was to third.

I don't have a picture of my 1cc of Ketsui, but I'm not sure what good that would do. I'm not saying people who haven't 1cc'd the game aren't entitled to have an opinion of it, but most people have only played it at friends/conventions/arcades and haven't actually owned it. The game gets a ridiculous amount of hype from PCB owners and then suddenly when people spoon feed how great it is to everyone here, it's on the Top 25. I'm sorry, but that's crap.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:20 pm

ketsui was 4th btw

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:22 pm

Elixir wrote:The game gets a ridiculous amount of hype from PCB owners and then suddenly when people spoon feed how great it is to everyone here, it's on the Top 25. I'm sorry, but that's crap.

Actually I believe that there's some truth in that statement.

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:35 pm

Not that I in any way feel I have to justify myself (especially to Elixir) - but I think I can safely say I've played Ketsui extensively. I've owned it 3 times now (the first of those times was well before the hype or forum interest, because I only paid £200 for it). And while I'm still not by any means brilliant at it (I can't clear it, yet), that hasn't stopped me pouring hours and hours into trying

I do, however, find it irritating when there seems to be such a stigma attached to liking either rare of expensive games

It was the same when I used to be heavily into MD stuff...I genuinely preferred playing Gleylancer to the Thunder Force series - but I remember having many an argument with people who were claiming I only liked Gleylancer because it was rare

Sure, because it's clearly on the same level as Divine Sealing (in both quality and rarity)...

And as for the Ketsui 'campaign' (I put campaign in inverteds, because it was about as serious as the average episode of Ren & Stimpy!) I very much doubt it encouraged many people who weren't already planning to vote to do so. Twas just some light-hearted fun.

mortified_penguin · Post by **mortified_penguin** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:35 pm

Pfft, who cares about ketsui. I'm more perturbed that Giga Wing made it on the list at all.

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:35 pm

I had another look at the chart... while I believe that Ketsui is one of the most hyped game in the genre since 2004 or so, I still think that it's a game worth belonging to the list of best shmups ever made. I don't care about the placement, I can look at this year's results, forget about the positions, and say yes, those are the 25 big guns, or almost all of them are in that range.

Now, if i would care about the positions, the "cave fanboys have spoken" thing just doesn't make too much sense to me since we have 2 great Raizing games up there....

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:39 pm

mortified_penguin wrote: I'm more perturbed that Giga Wing made it on the list at all.

This means WAR!

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:39 pm

Okay just to recap: A game that you apparently think very highly of got the position it deserved, but you're upset because people who haven't extensively played it voted on it? So you would have rather not seen it on the top 25 at all? That would do "IKD's pride and joy" much more justice?

Clearly what you should do in this situation is get angry over a bunch of guys in tophats with cows in their signatures.

...?

You lost me.

edit: jesus a lot of people posted between the time I opened this reply window and the time I actually wrote it. Guess it's kind of obvious who it's direct at though

Danbo · Post by **Danbo** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:50 pm

This is good because now we can all call Ketsui overrated.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:53 pm

Danbo Daxter wrote:This is good because now we can all call Ketsui overrated.

Ketsui is pretty awesome, but not THAT awesome.
Top 25 position I can understand though. Just not that high.

I think I must start a GWDF campaign for next year.
For justice!

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:57 pm

Elixir wrote:I don't have a picture of my 1cc of Ketsui, ..

hmm what a surprise

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:01 pm

moozooh wrote:Haha, this is actually completely reasonable. This year's top-25 had entry requirement of having played most of the games represented on the previous ones, the next could be having played most of these games well.

Great, I know my list doesn't need to be changed

Danbo · Post by **Danbo** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:01 pm

Also to anyone complaining about the dominance of Cave games... how many other companies have been consistently making shmups in the last 5 or so years? They wouldn't be able to keep making them if they weren't good, and most of the old console non-manic shmups don't interest me at all.

edit : really I just think 25 games to name is too many - i doubt many people around here have 1cced 25 games so they end up padding it out with whatever games they can think of.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:06 pm

charlie chong wrote:
Elixir wrote:I don't have a picture of my 1cc of Ketsui, ..
hmm what a surprise

You do realize that Ketsui boards don't save scores, right? And that I've sold my board?

Of course you wouldn't, because you don't own the game nor do you know jack shit about shooting games in general.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:06 pm

Super Laydock wrote:
Elixir wrote:The game gets a ridiculous amount of hype from PCB owners and then suddenly when people spoon feed how great it is to everyone here, it's on the Top 25. I'm sorry, but that's crap.
Actually I believe that there's some truth in that statement.

…and I'm the bad guy when I say that

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:07 pm

Elixir wrote:
charlie chong wrote:
Elixir wrote:I don't have a picture of my 1cc of Ketsui, ..
hmm what a surprise
You do realize that Ketsui boards don't save scores, right? And that I've sold my board?

Of course you wouldn't, because you don't own the game nor do you know jack shit about shooting games in general.

actually he does own it

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:10 pm

Elixir wrote:Of course you wouldn't, because you don't own the game nor do you know jack shit about shooting games in general.

Oops, nice try - better luck next time.

http://www.arcadeotaku.com/forum/viewto ... 59&start=0

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 pm

Chi_Ryu wrote:
Elixir wrote:Of course you wouldn't, because you don't own the game nor do you know jack shit about shooting games in general.
Oops, nice try - better luck next time.

http://www.arcadeotaku.com/forum/viewto ... 59&start=0

Merked!

Erinu · Post by **Erinu** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 pm

All this pishposh over more CAVE games being in the top25 this year

lollin' @ this. Can we get a reality check in here? One would assume that CAVE killed half of the forums families or something...

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:18 pm

Chi_Ryu wrote:
Elixir wrote:Of course you wouldn't, because you don't own the game nor do you know jack shit about shooting games in general.
Oops, nice try - better luck next time.

http://www.arcadeotaku.com/forum/viewto ... 59&start=0

So he wanted to compare scores, that's why he wanted me to post my 1cc. Truth is, I don't remember it, all it did was make me mark it off my 1cc to-do list. It wasn't played for score in the first place. I'm sure having a higher score means his opinion of the game is superior to mine and everyone else's here.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:23 pm

you said he didnt own the game/wasnt experienced at it.....this pick refutes that statement....

it wasnt posted 'for the score'.....

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:25 pm

So whats the ETA on the entire list? I can't wait to try the bottom 25.

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:27 pm

my opinion is no better than anyones.. it is you who assumes your opinion is instantly superior to anyone else. after all i do know "jack shit" about shooting games .i've only been playing them since centipede on the 2600 so 25 years of playing is obviously not enough to form my own opinions

thats what i'm getting at.you make blanket assumptions about people with no base in fact. i made a blanket assumption about your ketsui 1cc since you are the only person who knows whether you did it or not. you may actually have 1cc 'd it and i know that but without proof it's just another internet bullshitter spouting off

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:27 pm

Elixir wrote:So he wanted to compare scores

I don't think you can assume that.

msm · Post by **msm** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:34 pm

Grinning Cat wrote:Not that I in any way feel I have to justify myself.... - but I think I can safely say I've played Ketsui extensively....And while I'm still not by any means brilliant at it (I can't clear it, yet), that hasn't stopped me pouring hours and hours into trying

i sort of wanted to say something similar to this. it's my first year voting due to the much more leanient criteria, and with or without the KDF i'd still have been voting for ketsui. hopefully more people will see how good it is later in the year with the port

overall i think the list is very good but it's a shame dragon blaze and shikigami 2 aren't in there.

i predict more dispair in future years for the people who don't like cave, with them being the only really active developer these days and they have "new" stuff like deathsmiles, dfk and espgaluda2 which will probably feature more prominantly in the future...i might be way off on this but i also think the only way there's going to be a move away from the newer (cave) type games is if the voting eligibility criteria is put back to it's previous state. with higher entry requirements the only people able to vote (i know not everyone sticks to the rules) will be thoes who have been playing shooters for long enough to have fond memories of the older games. i've been playing shooters for about 5 years and still come nowhere near the old voting requirements. having said that i'm not sure shmups are really attracting any new players anyway so

i'll shut up now

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:39 pm

charlie chong wrote:my opinion is no better than anyones.. it is you who assumes your opinion is instantly superior to anyone else. after all i do know "jack shit" about shooting games .i've only been playing them since centipede on the 2600 so 25 years of playing is obviously not enough to form my own opinions
thats what i'm getting at.you make blanket assumptions about people with no base in fact. i made a blanket assumption about your ketsui 1cc since you are the only person who knows whether you did it or not. you may actually have 1cc 'd it and i know that but without proof it's just another internet bullshitter spouting off

You were the one who said that I should spend more time playing games and less time posting on the internet. I said I've 1cc'd the game but I didn't vote. You asked for proof, which I don't have, but is irrelevant because being skilled at the game has nothing to do with having an opinion of it. It's like I said, I like the game, but this isn't how you vote for it.

I was the one who said the majority of voters should play the game instead of voting for it. I can't "prove" that the majority of Ketsui voters haven't played the game, but it's the most overhyped game on this forum. It goes right beside Touhou hate and overrating RSG. I mean come on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how overrated Ketsui is. It lies within the shmups forum etiquette and you all damn well know it does. That aside, it's pretty fucking sad that people had to petition just to get the game where it is now.

Out of all the years since Ketsui's release, it hasn't come into the Top 25 this way. A petition starts to get it up there, and bam, it's now considered one of the top 5 shmups. A PCB. Which most people don't own. Is in the top 5.