7th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Results

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:00 am

V replacement w/ TF4 V

nimitz wrote:I think the judges should be people with more than 3000 posts.

Or possibly just me.

I really don't care about the rank, just the games included. Here's my bizarre fantasy shumps.org top 25.

Robotron 2084 (1982)
Juno First (1983)*
Fantasy Zone (1986)
R-Type (1987)
Kyukyoku Tiger (1987)
Gradius II (1988)
Lost Worlds (1988)
Darius 2 (1989)
Recca (1992)
Super Aleste (1992)
Thunder Force IV (1992)
Varth (1992)**
Batsugun (1993)
Raiden DX (1994)
RayForce (1994)
Battle Garegga (1996)
Einhänder (1997)
Raiden Fighters Jet (1998)
Guwange (1999)
Psyvariar (1999)
Dragon Blaze (2000)
Mars Matrix (2000)
Ikaruga (2001)
Ketsui (2003)***
Gradius V (2004)

*Not Stargate, partly out of spite and there's already Robotron.
**I think I was the only one who voted for this last year, but it's a quality stand-in for 194xs (none of which I can pretend to like enough for a make believe list).
***If you demand Ketsui, I'm taking away your Donpachi.

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:04 am

My view is that this is a "top" 25, not a "greatest" 25 or "definitive" 25. I would hope that newcomers would look at the top 25 lists (and honourable mentions list) from 4 or 5 years to get an idea of the core of the list that appears year-on-year.

Has anyone thought about crunching the numbers from previous years to produce a cumulative top 25 list?

dpful wrote:How has everyone played ketsui? it costs a thousand dollars? I don't have an xbox, did it come out?

No, it hasn't yet come out on Xbox - everyone has played Ketsui by buying a thousand dollar PCB. And then (in some cases) selling it for a thousand dollars (Hence total cost to me: $0).

It's an interesting top 25 (12 of my list made it in, with a further 2 as honourable mentions

), but I am saddened to see a lack of Flying Shark (or other early Toaplan stuff), and am confused about the inclusion of Dangun Feveron in the list! And c'mon peops, where's the love for Sky Kid?

I am, however, glad to see that DeathSmiles got an honourable mention, especially since comparatively few people will have played extensively it since the port was new at the time of the poll.

And finally:

sikraiken, edited down wrote:Garegga is too high
DDP does not belong above DOJ
Mushi is garbage
Guwange above Progear and Dangun?
Drop Radiant Silvergun. It's overrated.
No to Border Down
You guys haven't even played Futari

Shelcoof · Post by **Shelcoof** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:44 am

Where is the Thunderforce LOVE???

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:49 am

honestly rob, i don't think i've ever seen someone so vocal about their views as you. sometimes they can be funny, but it's like every youtube video you do, every other thread you start, it's always what your take is on [XYZ]. you're that over opinionated you're practically female

i think the trouble is that, as my KDF teammate has stated, people have a different interpretation of what the top 25 is, and are working from their own set of criteria.

i think some people are looking at it far too academically. i see people dropping games and shifting stuff around because they want a "well-rounded" list. if you were putting together a top 25 albums of all time, would you have a crisis of conscience if you put in 10 or more rock albums..? i don't think there's anything wrong with cave getting a large chunk of the vote. firstly, you need to take into account just how many shmups they have released thus far. and (deathsmiles 2 perhaps permitting) they're the only company who still give a shit about the genre anways. if we did this poll in the mid 90s everyone would be moaning that there'd be too much toaplan. and people bounce round nonsensical vacuous terms like "overrated". or as someone succinctly put it: popularity = bad

(it's like you've been here for years

)

ganson: you say you view the top 25 as containing stuff that as a beginner you need to get to know. but then you complain about a lot of very accessible titles on there, only happy that garegga got #1, and it's probably the *least* beginner-friendly title on the list

kengou: yeah that's pretty much how i vote too.

and ceph ......

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:26 am

jpj wrote:honestly rob, i don't think i've ever seen someone so vocal about their views as you. sometimes they can be funny, but it's like every youtube video you do, every other thread you start, it's always what your take is on [XYZ].

The videos are reviews, so they have to be a take on something. But I am interested in opinions other than my own or I'd just post in a recap-style forum-blog.

if you were putting together a top 25 albums of all time, would you have a crisis of conscience if you put in 10 or more rock albums..?

No, it'd be like including 10 Beatles albums. Popular = bad, too. The best thing to do would be to stop addressing "overrated" comments. It is very boring (the use and response).

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:27 am

I have no complains at all about this list. All great games, in an order that moreless reflects my feling about the genre.... Battle Garegga being 1st seems a bit out, I have to admit. It feels like you have this game, considered by many people eternally belonging to the second place, and now it's number one, and that can seem quite unexpected. But that's ok, since to me it's one of the game that deserves getting to the top of the chart.

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:14 am

lol @ butthurt people .needs twin cobra but i wont complain cos i like a lot of games in the list tho and ketsooe mayde it in the top 5.

as for high post count voters fuck that shit. from now on we should make it only people who post in the high score forum

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:44 am

Rob wrote:
jpj wrote:if you were putting together a top 25 albums of all time, would you have a crisis of conscience if you put in 10 or more rock albums..?
No, it'd be like including 10 Beatles albums.

Except that there's like a million bands out there but only a handful of shmup developers...

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:56 am

Jockel wrote:
sven666 wrote:gotta say, for the first time ever in this lists history, pretty damn good result!
Hurts to see Futari so low, though :/

yeah but thats only due to not that many having played it (just like sikraiken kinda said

).. after the ports out its gonna be a top contender for sure. (and DS will be on next years top 25 most likeley)..

also, mars matrix sux..

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:03 am

The only good thing to ever come out of Sweden is Dancing Queen.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:44 am

Rob wrote:The only good thing to ever come out of Sweden is Dancing Queen.

.. are you coming out of the closet here?

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:47 am

Far too much Cave, and not enough Psikyo. ESPRa.De, Dangun, and Progear really have no business in a top 25, while Dragon Blaze and Gunbird 2 should definitely be in it.

Shiki II's departure is a sad loss.

Otherwise it's a nice list, and it's good to see the Treasure shmups in places more reasonable than ever, too. (RSG continues its downlide.)

I'm surprisingly okay with Garegga being #1.

EDIT: spelling

Post by **Icarus** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:49 am

Just remember, ladies, that while Ketsui is in fourth by voting campaign, Garegga is first on its own merits, without the need for banner-waving.
Thanks to incog for the results.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:46 am

Chi_Ryu wrote:Has anyone thought about crunching the numbers from previous years to produce a cumulative top 25 list? :)

I'm interested in this as well.

charlie chong wrote:from now on we should make it only people who post in the high score forum :P

Haha, this is actually completely reasonable. This year's top-25 had entry requirement of having played most of the games represented on the previous ones, the next could be having played most of these games well.

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:59 am

Good to see Raiden DX back in. Pleasantly suprised that Garegga got first. I'd like to see Dragon Blaze at some point.

markedkiller78 · Post by **markedkiller78** » Tue May 26, 2009 11:28 am

sven666 wrote:gotta say, for the first time ever in this lists history, pretty damn good result!

Agreed.

It's also the first time I've voted

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:27 pm

What I think happens in these lists is that not enough people agree on which classics are truly canonical, there are so many styles. But there's way more of a consensus on the modern stuff that is more homogenized and conscious of what works. So people's personal lists are "respectable" but the final result reads like what games are installed at HEY right now. Also it's the nature of the genre that when you do these lists off the top of your head the most exhilarating titles that still give you a rush are going to pop into your head first.

oh and

YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED ENOUGH DANGUN. It's Toaplan's last stand, It's the wild card. Compare how fast the bullets are to even modern manic stuff, not to mention trying to keep your discoman chain amidst the constant fire. Toss out boring Progear and ESP Ra.De, but give me my Feveron.

Do people really wish for a world without Cave? Would there even be shmups in the japanese arcade industry today without them? They're practically carrying the genre outside of the home market (where Touhou is carrying it)

ArtfulDodger · Post by **ArtfulDodger** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:51 pm

szycag wrote:YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED ENOUGH DANGUN. It's Toaplan's last stand, It's the wild card. Compare how fast the bullets are to even modern manic stuff, not to mention trying to keep your discoman chain amidst the constant fire.

Alright, I registered after years of lurking to point out how very much I agree, and to suggest that other users of this forum have not yet achieved

MAXIMUM...!...FEVER!

However, you're off your kit re Progear hate.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:56 pm

Like I just told Bloodflowers, Progear... I can take it or leave it. If there's only room for one manic hori then it's Deathsmiles, easily. I still stand behind ESP Ra.De not belonging on here at all.

Post by **system11** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:59 pm

I forgot to vote this time - I've been quite busy with other things.

Wow, what a poor top 25. It's all Cave Cave Cave, but with some of their best titles either missing or near the bottom, a bunch of really average ones in the middle, and why on earth is DOJ in the top 3?

What a shambles.

Take THAT, variety - your kind is no longer wanted here!

drboom · Post by **drboom** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:06 pm

This is a fantastic list. It definiltely makes me want to try Ibara and Giga Wing again and give them a more critical look.

I would hope that this list does the same for many people, including the naysayers - go and try the top ten games and see why so many rank them so highly. Garegga at #1 is just beautiful.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:12 pm

Just came here to say that 90% of the Ketsui voters haven't played/extensively played the game. And even then you guys had to bandwagon the hell out of it just to get it up there. That isn't meant to be what voting is about. Way to make a mockery out of IKD's pride and joy.

If half of you spent your time playing Ketsui instead of voting for it maybe you'd actually have an informed opinion of the game. Toodles.

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:16 pm

shut up elixir you are a prick

mebbes if you spent more time playing games than coming on here and being a know it all you would actually develop some skill.
instead you spend your time doing pointless nerd shit like trying to find out about achievements and gamer pics.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:22 pm

charlie chong wrote:shut up elixir you are a prick

name calling just for the sake of it is lame as well....

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:24 pm

markedkiller78 wrote:It's also the first time I've voted

This.

incognoscente · Post by **incognoscente** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:28 pm

Shumps4Free wrote:Only 11 Cave games? Come on, we can be less diverse than that.

Point:
All Cave All the Time 2008

01. Dodonpachi (ARC/SAT/PS1)
02. Dodonpachi Daioujou / Black Label (ARC/PS2)
03. Ketsui kizuna jigoku tachi (ARC)
04. ESPGaluda / Arranged (ARC/PS2)
05. Mushihime-sama (ARC/PS2)
06. Guwange (ARC)
07. Progear no Arashi (ARC)
08. Dangun Feveron (ARC)
09. ESP Ra.De. (ARC)
10. Ibara (ARC/PS2)
11. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC)
12. DeathSmiles / MegaBlack Label (ARC)
13. Donpachi (ARC/PS1/SAT)
14. ESPGaluda II (ARC)
15. Muchi Muchi Pork (ARC)
16. Pink Sweets
17. Ketsui Death Label (NDS)
18. Dodonpachi DaiFukkatsu / 1.5 (ARC)
19. Ibara Arrange Mode (PS2)
20. Ibara Black Label

Counterpoint:
No Cave Anytime 2008

01. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT)
02. Armed Police Batrider (ARC)
03. Ikaruga (ARC/DC/GC/XBLA)
04. Gradius V (PS2)
05. Radiant Silvergun (SAT/ARC)
06. Mars Matrix (ARC/DC)
07. Batsugun / Batsugun Special Ver. (ARC/SAT)
08. Raiden DX (ARC/PS1)
09. Raiden Fighters Jet (ARC)
10. Strikers 1945 II (ARC/PS1/PS2/SAT)
11. R-Type (ARC/PS1/PCE)
12. Border Down (ARC/DC)
13. Giga Wing (ARC/DC)
14. Rayforce/Layer Section/Galactic Attack (ARC/SAT/PS2)
15. Soukyugurentai (ARC/SAT/PS1)
16. Dragon Blaze (ARC/PS2)
17. Gradius Gaiden (PS1)
18. Under Defeat (ARC/DC)
19. Shikigami no Shiro 2/Castle Shikigami 2 (PS2/DC/GC/ARC)
20. G-Darius (ARC/PS2/PS1)
21. Battle Bakraid (ARC)
22. Gunbird 2 (DC/AC/PS2)
23. Kyukyoku Tiger / Twin Cobra (ARC/MD/PS1/PCE)
24. Thunder Force 4 / Lightening Force (MD/GEN)
25. Zero Gunner 2 (ARC/DC)

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:30 pm

the cave list needs to be shuffled a bit but it looks about right

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:36 pm

charlie chong wrote:shut up elixir you are a prick

mebbes if you spent more time playing games than coming on here and being a know it all you would actually develop some skill.
instead you spend your time doing pointless nerd shit like trying to find out about achievements and gamer pics.

"Mebbes" my own skill doesn't apply here as I didn't vote at all. But since you brought it up, I can 1cc Ketsui with a Saturn pad. I've owned the board itself; ask Gwvryvrn as I bought it off him. I sold it. Skill has nothing to do with the fact that jpj and a bunch of others here spoon fed the game's lack of love down everyone's throat for weeks on end until it managed to scrape into third position. I like Ketsui too, but this isn't what voting is meant to be about.

I guess constructing workarounds and my own personal programs is a complete waste of time, maybe I should stick to provoking weak eurotrash on the internet who cry here about how they're locked out of that pom moshpit you call ArcadeOtaku instead.

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:40 pm

Elixir wrote:Just came here to say that 90% of the Ketsui voters haven't played/extensively played the game.

Evidence, please?

OH WAIT, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY.

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:43 pm

proof pics please. i really don't care what you think of "eurotrash" like me elixir but to say that 90% of the people who voted for ketsui haven't played it properly is just bullshit.
oh yeah i'm so upset i cant get on an internet forum . don't you think i would get the internet at home if i cared that much.it's only £20 a month