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 Post subject: The worst scoring system.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:30 pm 


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Thunder Force V

With all the talk of Thunder Force, I think this is a topic worth bringing up. Has there ever been another shooter where mastering a scoring system saps all of the challenge out of a game like this one? I think that fact makes this game's scoring system the worst ever thought up. The scoring system involves destroying nearly everything immediately, made very easy by Free Range. Usually there would be some catch, like danger of crashing into something (bullet or enemy), but TF5 takes little to no difficult maneuvering to accomplish a high scoring game. Just remember when and where to swing Free Range around and you've got a high score and a terribly unchallenging game where few obstacles roam and bosses are put down within seconds.

I think Free Range and the scoring system based around it nearly ruined the game. Technically the worst.

Agree/disagree? 8)


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:43 pm 


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Disagree. Ikaruga made my hairline recede with the strict chaining. Thunder Force V took me home, made me tea and cookies, prepared a nice hot bath, and tucked me into bed, in comparison. And she was still there the morning after to make me breakfast. :wink:
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:03 pm 


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I would rather play Thunder Force V for score (grudgingly) over Ikaruga, just because it's Thunder Force and I like the series, but the scoring system is downright idiotic and takes the game down a few notches. I can appreciate the technique and ingenuity required for a high score in Ikaruga. Chaining is what Ikaruga is. TF doesn't need a scoring system.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:27 pm 


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Quote:
Chaining is what Ikaruga is.


Ikaruga could work wonderfully without any chain scoring system.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:42 pm 


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Metal Slug has fairly bad scoring...you get extra points for knife kills which is good, but there are too many milking points due to the lax timer. Some of the secret hostage locations, such as level 4's where you have to shoot at that cave for a seeming half hour are pretty stupid. This makes the game extremely boring to play for score, and since it's easy survival wise once you've 1 lifed it there's not much to keep you coming back.

Shmupwise Gunbird's scoring is pretty weak compared to their later stuff. Collect the coins, and that's it. Blah. Gunbird < Strikers < Gunbird 2 < Dragon Blaze from a scoring perspective, IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:47 pm 


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I know you've railed about Night Raid's scoring system before...
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:50 pm 


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Quote:
Ikaruga could work wonderfully without any chain scoring system.

The ideas could, but take chaining out and they'd have to redesign the game. Otherwise many parts would be particularly lame, like the entire first chapter, many sections of chapter 2 (enemies circling ship, a completely worthless exercise if not for chaining).

Neon wrote:
Shmupwise Gunbird's scoring is pretty weak compared to their later stuff. Collect the coins, and that's it. Blah. Gunbird < Strikers < Gunbird 2 < Dragon Blaze from a scoring perspective, IMO.

I like Gunbird 2's the best, as minimal as it is. The early games really don't have "scoring systems." I'm thinking of stuff that really tries and fails, dragging the game down with it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:54 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
I know you've railed about Night Raid's scoring system before...

Night Raid has a WEIRD scoring system that I could never completely understand. I could never get over how crappy the control was or the crappy hug launcher. I think the scoring system should be reused (+/near 0/-), without a sloppy gimmick. I think the flaws with NR are more fundamental than they can be pinned on scoring, unlike TF5.


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 Post subject: Re: The worst scoring system.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:32 pm 


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Rob wrote:
Thunder Force V

With all the talk of Thunder Force, I think this is a topic worth bringing up. Has there ever been another shooter where mastering a scoring system saps all of the challenge out of a game like this one? I think that fact makes this game's scoring system the worst ever thought up. The scoring system involves destroying nearly everything immediately, made very easy by Free Range. Usually there would be some catch, like danger of crashing into something (bullet or enemy), but TF5 takes little to no difficult maneuvering to accomplish a high scoring game. Just remember when and where to swing Free Range around and you've got a high score and a terribly unchallenging game where few obstacles roam and bosses are put down within seconds.

I think Free Range and the scoring system based around it nearly ruined the game. Technically the worst.

Agree/disagree? 8)


Try the US PSOne version of TF5. The scoring system was altered slightly to push point-blanking with Free Range. See the different range squares for the weapon? Each one of those works as a score multiplier, with the closest square to the ship being the highest.

As for killing everything as quickly as possible... High Tempo bonuses in shmups are nothing new. Tecnosoft just decided to build an entire game around that specific scoring technique. I don't see it as terrible considering how none of their prior games featured any sort of scoring gimmick.

And worst scoring system for me goes to XIIStag. Sorry, I just have qualms with a scoring system who's sole purpose is to destroy controllers/joysticks.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:33 pm 


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Rob wrote:
Night Raid has a WEIRD scoring system.


I concur.
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 Post subject: Re: The worst scoring system.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:49 pm 


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Kiken wrote:
Try the US PSOne version of TF5. The scoring system was altered slightly to push point-blanking with Free Range. See the different range squares for the weapon? Each one of those works as a score multiplier, with the closest square to the ship being the highest.

The US version is the one I played. Yeah, I think the closer it was the higher the multiplier, but it still wasn't that close or that risky. I just assumed it got more powerful the closer it was. I ended up getting the x15 or whatever it was the majority of the time and frankly I sucked at games. The last boss is the only thing that stopped me from 1-lifing it.

Another thing absolutely wrong with this scoring system is that it's Thunder Force, a series where the most distinctive feature is its multiple weapons, and here's a scoring system that nearly requires the use of one weapon throughout 80+% of the game. Alright, a scoring system which nullfies the series strengths and makes challenge inversely proportional to high scores. Dumb.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:52 pm 


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I found Ikaruga's chaining too anal for my tastes. I'd just blast everything in sight, thank you very much. :lol:

However, the gold bars in Strikers 1945 tend to piss me off as well though, is 2000 points really worth risking a bullet waiting for the bar to flash white?
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:59 pm 


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I don't really like ESP RA.DE.'s scoring. It makes me swear a lot -- I always screw up the timing. Fortunately, ESP RA.DE. is very enjoyable without worrying too much about score.


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 Post subject: Re: The worst scoring system.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:03 pm 


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Rob wrote:
Another thing absolutely wrong with this scoring system is that it's Thunder Force, a series where the most distinctive feature is its multiple weapons, and here's a scoring system that nearly requires the use of one weapon throughout 80+% of the game.

The scoring system doesn't even have to be brought into the equation for that to be an issue; since the free-range weapon is so much more powerful than everything else in your arsenal by a long shot, if you lose it at almost any point (but especially the later bosses) you'll have to pound away at everything five times as long to bring them down, likely losing several additional lives in the process (and wondering which random onscreen object it was that actually killed you).
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:19 pm 


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TalkingOctopus wrote:
I don't really like ESP RA.DE.'s scoring. It makes me swear a lot -- I always screw up the timing. Fortunately, ESP RA.DE. is very enjoyable without worrying too much about score.

Heh, tell me about it. I've actually spent my day trying to rip my pad apart, I've also been throwing it against the table and I even tried to chew it into pieces (hurts my teeth, so I stopped that). Nothing has made me this mad before. Pretty cool game though ;)


Last edited by zinger on Sun May 15, 2005 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The worst scoring system.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:20 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
The scoring system doesn't even have to be brought into the equation for that to be an issue; since the free-range weapon is so much more powerful than everything else in your arsenal by a long shot, if you lose it at almost any point (but especially the later bosses) you'll have to pound away at everything five times as long to bring them down, likely losing several additional lives in the process (and wondering which random onscreen object it was that actually killed you).

Yeah, this is my argument if anyone dares say well ignore the scoring system then! Just thinking about this game is making me mad. :evil:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:13 pm 



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Even though it's not really that important, there's also buzzing. Though buzzing should have gained a lot more points.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:33 pm 


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raiden wrote:
[
Ikaruga could work wonderfully without any chain scoring system.


YES! Am I the only one who wishes they could use the Ikaruga ship in a game by Raizing or Cave, where bullets were still b&w, but no chaining.

Imagine weaving through garegga, absorbing the same colored bullets and firing them back as lasers. Forget the puzzle aspect! I want super shmup action frenzy with the Ikaruga ship! That would have been an absolutely beautiful game.
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:47 pm 


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Who's to say you can't play Ikaruga without chaining?

Thats how I played it. *shrugs*



And I think the worst scoring system ever is... Metal Black.
Way way way way way too much focus on the two stupid ass minigames as far as 1CC hi-scores go.
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:04 pm 


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Terra Cresta 3D

The game has no score at all.

That's the worst score system ever!


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:05 pm 


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Shatterhand wrote:
Terra Cresta 3D

The game has no score at all.

That's the worst score system ever!



That game just sucks...


... a lot...


Edit:
Actually, it does have a scoring system. Time how long you can stand to play it. So far I can stand up to level 4... :(
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:09 pm 


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I will get cained for this, but I find DDP, DOJ, etc's straight-forward chaining system a bit boring and too unforgiving to enjoy. I like ESPGaluda the best, and I'd say Ketsui's in a close second, although I think the game gets so hard around stage 3 that you have to start considering to throw the scoring out the window.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:12 pm 


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jp wrote:
And I think the worst scoring system ever is... Metal Black.
Way way way way way too much focus on the two stupid ass minigames as far as 1CC hi-scores go.


Yep, this game needed a proper scoring system. I love the strategical boss fights, they could've made something out of that perhaps?

The scoring system in Darius Gaiden kinda bothers me. You get points for destroying "waves" of enemies, and that's fine with me, but trying to catch those rotating shield icons at exactly 3 o' clock I find very hard, and it makes such a difference too.

I find the scoring system in Rayforce / Layer Section kinda ideal. It may lack some depth, but it's so damned fun and easy to learn. Not very frustrating either, IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:14 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
I will get cained for this, but I find DDP, DOJ, etc's straight-forward chaining system a bit boring and too unforgiving to enjoy. I like ESPGaluda the best, and I'd say Ketsui's in a close second, although I think the game gets so hard around stage 3 that you have to start considering to throw the scoring out the window.

I agree with this. It's also so unfair that you lose so much points by using bombs and dying.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 12:04 am 


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GAREGGA. It borders on the fucking stupid. Get four medals, then let one go, while collecting every fourth special power up and every ninth weapon power up during a full moon while sacrificing a live chicken under your nose and you'll get a 50,000 point bonus for every seventh tank you kill while there are three or more small bomb powerups onscreen. THE FUCK!??!?

Seriously though, any game where suicide is mandatory to get a high score is messed up.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 2:32 am 


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Hyper duel is quite strange...you get points for being stationary :/
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:33 am 


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Raiden DX has a messed up scoring system. There are plenty of sophisticated tricks you can do to get 3000 points here, 20000 points there, even 50000 points occasionally, but after the game is over, a bonus score is given where a perfect destruction rate yields one million points (even if you only killed 10 enemies before the game was over), and the hardly intelligible kiai/guts rating adds another, almost random factor. The effect being, you get to struggle with all the game´s intricate tricks, try to improve your skills, and then this mechanism comes along, stomps your efforts into the ground and labels your score a "wheel of fortune" kind of achievement.
Scoring systems should always be transparent enough for the player to understand why he didn´t get as many points this time, and what he has to do to improve.

btw. concerning Thunderforce 5, I agree completely. The Free Range weapon is incredibly cool, but way out of balance compared to the other weapons. Is that better in Thunderforce 4? I don´t remember enough, only played it for a short time.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:51 am 


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SFKhoa wrote:
Hyper duel is quite strange...you get points for being stationary :/

Tell me more. Sounds like Technosoft could have another contender.

Quote:
btw. concerning Thunderforce 5, I agree completely. The Free Range weapon is incredibly cool, but way out of balance compared to the other weapons. Is that better in Thunderforce 4? I don´t remember enough, only played it for a short time.

TF4's selection is perfect.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 8:31 am 


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Rob wrote:
SFKhoa wrote:
Hyper duel is quite strange...you get points for being stationary :/

Tell me more. Sounds like Technosoft could have another contender.

The less you move, the more points you get, and as long as you don't move, the multiplier for not moving will increase. Uhm, I think that's it ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The worst scoring system.
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 8:36 am 


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Kiken wrote:
Try the US PSOne version of TF5. The scoring system was altered slightly to push point-blanking with Free Range. See the different range squares for the weapon? Each one of those works as a score multiplier, with the closest square to the ship being the highest.


:?: Wait, I thought that worked exactly the same in the JPN version of TFVPS. :?:

By the way, I love Free Range. Anyone here loves to play with the Purple ship?
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