The term 'euroshmup'

spineshark · Post by **spineshark** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:09 am

Hey if you go side to side enough in Samidare your ship will start to turn over and over

DO A BARREL ROLL!

(does it make my hitbox smaller lol)

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:54 am

emphatic wrote:Is there ANY japan-made shmups where your ship has inertia? On purpouse?

Aero Blasters. The stages with inertia almost ruin the game.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:25 am

GrimoreLibrarian wrote:What I'm wondering is what's the difference between Western and eastern shooters?

Japanese shmups are usually aimed at the arcades or arcade-like gameplay culture, which has a number of important characteristics that affect gameplay process in various ways. Western shmups are aimed at home entertainment gameplay culture, which also has a number of characteristics of their own.

320x240 wrote:The Coop is right about the term 'Euroshmup' not being about quality, it's just that no quality Euroshmup have ever been done. And I mean this only half jokingly. I'd like to see a quality shmup that is still an Euroshmup.

There will never be one, because from such a standpoint, a Euroshmup epitomizes the attributes that are referred to as "bad quality" from a jp shmup perspective. In other words, a "quality euroshmup" will not be a euroshmup anymore.

Otherwise, I could say J'n'G was a great euroshmup, and I enjoyed playing through it the first 3-4 times.

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:50 pm

moozooh wrote:
320x240 wrote:I'd like to see a quality shmup that is still an Euroshmup.
There will never be one, because from such a standpoint, a Euroshmup epitomizes the attributes that are referred to as "bad quality" from a jp shmup perspective. In other words, a "quality euroshmup" will not be a euroshmup anymore.

Euroshmups holds a certain promise that has never really been fulfilled and I believe that when it does the result is still something different than a Japshmup. For this to happen, Euroshmups must shed their scene roots.

moozooh wrote:Otherwise, I could say J'n'G was a great euroshmup, and I enjoyed playing through it the first 3-4 times.

Ah, but that's an Amerishmup...

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:25 pm

320x240 wrote:
moozooh wrote:Otherwise, I could say J'n'G was a great euroshmup, and I enjoyed playing through it the first 3-4 times.
Ah, but that's an Amerishmup...

Huh? The developers are from the Czech Republic.

croikle · Post by **croikle** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:00 pm

spineshark wrote:Hey if you go side to side enough in Samidare your ship will start to turn over and over

The same thing happens in Varth, where a long enough sideways motion triggers a roll.

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:19 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:
320x240 wrote:
moozooh wrote:Otherwise, I could say J'n'G was a great euroshmup, and I enjoyed playing through it the first 3-4 times.
Ah, but that's an Amerishmup...
Huh? The developers are from the Czech Republic.

Still, it's an Amerishmup, or at least a borderline case. Sometimes a Euroshmup will come out of Japan too.

sfried · Post by **sfried** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:48 pm

moozooh wrote:There will never be one, because from such a standpoint, a Euroshmup epitomizes the attributes that are referred to as "bad quality" from a jp shmup perspective. In other words, a "quality euroshmup" will not be a euroshmup anymore.

So wait, Shin'En's shooters are considered Euroshmup untill Nanostray 2?

Mischief Maker · Post by **Mischief Maker** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:50 pm

Star Monkey is a great, if old, shmup developed in Europe. A combination of Raiden-style gameplay with a gradius-style upgrade system and great sound.

Has anyone here tried its sorta-sequel Ultra Assault? The demo's so short I can't get a feel for the game, but what I did see wasn't nearly as impressive.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:09 pm

I really hope I just coined the term Amerishmup.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:11 pm

yankeeshmup

croikle · Post by **croikle** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:40 pm

Someone mentioned yank-em-up as a possible term for those. I like it.

VorpalEdge · Post by **VorpalEdge** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:59 pm

croikle wrote:Someone mentioned yank-em-up as a possible term for those. I like it.

That works best as a verb.

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:50 pm

VorpalEdge wrote:
croikle wrote:Someone mentioned yank-em-up as a possible term for those. I like it.
That works best as a verb.

shortened to ymup (pronounced your-mom-up)

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:07 pm

VorpalEdge wrote:
croikle wrote:Someone mentioned yank-em-up as a possible term for those. I like it.
That works best as a verb.

Think that would be yank-em-off...

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:50 am

captpain wrote:I really hope I just coined the term Amerishmup.

I did it before, and I have the means to prove it... It's probably being done long before that anyway.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:35 am

worstplayer wrote:not every euro-shmup is euroshmup [...] at least everyone knows what it means.

O rly

p.s. Shmup of Uncertain Nationality (SUNup?)

Gungriffon Geona · Post by **Gungriffon Geona** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:07 pm

320x240 wrote:
captain ahar wrote:katakis is awesome, i also really enjoyed apidya.
But Apidya tried to be 'console like', i.e Japanese.

it is by essential facts not though. in the end it's still a euroshmup despite the fact it is literally smack dab in the middle of the line between the two styles.

in my opinion, I seem to find eastern design based on complexity within simplicity and hiding things that become very complicated from view. in turn, they come out looking horribly simple despite the fact their might be a huge ammount of things running within the guts of the game against or for the player.
On the other hand, Euroshmups handle things from the perspective that reward is everything and everything within the gameplay should be blindingly apparent, even if it becomes overburdened and the player thusly becoming under/overpowered because of it.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:55 pm

sfried wrote:So wait, Shin'En's shooters are considered Euroshmup untill Nanostray 2?

Why am I supposed to answer this question?

sfried · Post by **sfried** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:13 pm

moozooh wrote:
sfried wrote:So wait, Shin'En's shooters are considered Euroshmup untill Nanostray 2?
Why am I supposed to answer this question?

I dunno, because how seemingly arbitrary the term euroshmup is used, despite lack of regards to quality.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:29 pm

But that's kind of my gripe with it.

The term is currently defined through: a) the developers' home country; b) a vague set of attributes widely perceived by shmupping community as deviation from gameplay norms pertaining to the genre's core. Both of these definitions smell bad, and it is a problem with this term.

In the context of "B" definition, such set of unwanted attributes is what makes "quality euroshmup" an oxymoron, because the term itself is defined through them. When they are not present, the logic behind the name disappears as well. There might be a case when they are still present yet somewhat outweighed by positive aspects (like in said J'n'G), but you'll never manage to make it a case in point to a wide majority of non-euroshmup fans.

I hope this clarifies my earlier post.

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:00 pm

moozooh wrote:There might be a case when they are still present yet somewhat outweighed by positive aspects (like in said J'n'G), but you'll never manage to make it a case in point to a wide majority of non-euroshmup fans.

Which is what I was getting at. I don't think there has ever been made a really good shmup in the Euroshmup vein about which people who actually enjoy this kind of game can say: "That's a really great game".

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:59 am

320x240 wrote:I don't think there has ever been made a really good shmup in the Euroshmup vein about which people who actually enjoy this kind of game can say: "That's a really great game".

Doesn't Lords/Winds of Thunder fit the bill? Apart from being from Japan it has all the traits typically associated with Euroshmups, and it's a quality game.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:01 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:
320x240 wrote:I don't think there has ever been made a really good shmup in the Euroshmup vein about which people who actually enjoy this kind of game can say: "That's a really great game".
Doesn't Lords/Winds of Thunder fit the bill? Apart from being from Japan it has all the traits typically associated with Euroshmups, and it's a quality game.

Why not mention Apidya?
Or Z-out?

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:51 pm

What about X-out, Battle Squadron, Hybris or disposable Hero ? Awesome Euro shmups do exist.

MadScientist · Post by **MadScientist** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:20 am

I was playing Side Arms and Forgotten Worlds earlier and was noticing that both these mid-80's Capcom games have some of the traits which would later categorize 'euroshmups'. Large sprites, big hit-boxes, and in FW you have an energy bar and a weapons shop. I know these were both very popular where I grew up (N. Ireland), so I was thinking maybe these were a big influence on some European developers.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:04 am

MadScientist wrote:I was playing Side Arms and Forgotten Worlds earlier and was noticing that both these mid-80's

There is your clue. Both games are exceedingly cheap and poorly designed. You are correct, they could be considered euroshmups stylistically.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:11 am

i've always had a soft spot for blood Money as well (c64 and amiga... seriously, i have fun playing the amiga version)

Kaspal · Post by **Kaspal** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:16 pm

Mischief Maker wrote:Star Monkey is a great, if old, shmup developed in Europe. A combination of Raiden-style gameplay with a gradius-style upgrade system and great sound.

Has anyone here tried its sorta-sequel Ultra Assault? The demo's so short I can't get a feel for the game, but what I did see wasn't nearly as impressive.

i have the full version of Ultra Assault... and while i enjoyed it back then (About 8 yrs ago?), i dont think i can stand playin it now...

one nice feature i loved of that game was its level editor... even tho, i never really used it to its full context.

what i REALLY hated about the game, was the inmense ammount of inertia and the FUCKIN slow ship... you needed to give it at least 5 speed boosts to get to a comfortable point (and you needed to do that when you upgraded weapons, since they made the ship slower...).

i better stop here, b4 someone actually thinks i hated the game rather than lovin it back then.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:27 pm

How about Shit 'em ups?
Emph