The term 'euroshmup'

PooshhMao · Post by **PooshhMao** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:25 pm

Hi,

Longtime shmup player and forum visitor.
I'm European (Belgian if you <I>must</I> know), and I do sort of feel very slightly offended everytime the term 'euroshmup' is coined (probably because it's usually not in a very flattering context)

I'm among the first to admit that they usually lack the insight, polish and sheer brilliance of their Japanese counterparts. But at least Europe is developing shmups - the only American-made shmups I can think of are Raptor and Demonstar (which incidentally are made by the same people)

Okay, so this might not be the most brilliant of topics (I'm bored, okay?), and not to spark a which-nation-is-best argument.

Kaspal · Post by **Kaspal** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:50 pm

actually, there are a lotta "doujin" shmups devved in america too... is just that they are not aimed to commercial distribution...

and yes, the term its commonly used in a derogative manner... but we also reckon that there are some good games out there that are "suroshmups" too... like JnG (even tho, i REALLY hate the inertia of the ship til you upgrade the wings...)-

now, truth b told... i preffer the japanese shmups all the way.

worstplayer · Post by **worstplayer** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:04 pm

Also, euroshmups don't have to be from Europe (see: Soldner X) and not every euro-shmup is euroshmup, so yeah, it's a stupid word but at least everyone knows what it means.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:05 pm

Hmm...I always thought that people used that term, because basically the only other people that make shmups are the Europeans.

Yeah, I know it's in a derogatory manner though.

Well, I don't care about any western shmups at all, European or American, so I never really though about it.

Japanese all the way, when it comes to shmups.

s/m

GrimoreLibrarian · Post by **GrimoreLibrarian** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:35 pm

What I'm wondering is what's the difference between Western and eastern shooters?

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:58 pm

I think the name "euroshmup" came about because it was mostly European countries with the most active demo scenes in the 90s, hence the largest amount of poorly made shooters. Plus the posterchildren for commercial Euroshmups like Xenon, Project-X etc were developed in Europe.

Its derogatory against those particular kinds of games but its not a racial slur, rather just an unfortunate turn of phrase which seems to have stuck.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:03 pm

I propose the term 'SlidyShieldShmups' .. or maybe 'YourWeaponsDoJackShitShmups' >_>

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:31 pm

I say "euroshmups" because I am bigoted against all Europeans and think they should be drowned in a shallow pool of water.

Actually, it's just a basically meaningless term, so who cares? Call them Amerishmups if you want, it's just a name.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:35 pm

I personally try to use the terms japshmup and WRPG whenever I can.

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:13 pm

GrimoreLibrarian wrote:What I'm wondering is what's the difference between Western and eastern shooters?

Eastern shooters are good.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:39 pm

The term "euroshmup" as an insult never made much sense to me. Maybe it's because I've never had an issue with shmups like Soldner-X, X-2, Xenon 2: Megablast, and Tyrian 2000... all of which have that euroshmup look and feel.

It's strange that somewhere along the way, the term came to mean "bad" in some universal sense. It's also strange that it's been used here, on a shmup-loving site, a lot in that sense. Now, I know there have been some bad euroshmups made over the years, but there have been good ones too. And while I realize that's a matter of personal taste, when you consider just how many shitty shmups have come from Japan, and how there's no "Japshmup" put down floating around because of it, the whole thing just comes off as silly.

I've personally taken to heart the idea that "euroshmup" means a certain graphical style, the idea of inertia on the ship, and the ship being able to take several hits thanks to a shield or armor that's always there. It has nothing to do with quality, it's simply the traits that are common to style. Whether someone likes that style or not is always open for debate, but I hardly think is worthy of being likened to some kind of all-encompassing put down.

trivial · Post by **trivial** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:53 pm

No offence to the Belch, but every time I coin a phrase repeatedly, my mana is further depleted

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:14 pm

Is there ANY japan-made shmups where your ship has inertia? On purpouse? (And the flying parts of Metal Slug does not count).

Emph

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:20 pm

GrimoreLibrarian wrote:What I'm wondering is what's the difference between Western and eastern shooters?

The amount of brown used.

ChurchOfSolipsism · Post by **ChurchOfSolipsism** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:24 pm

Get your head out of your ass, you Belgian prick.

KindGrind · Post by **KindGrind** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:44 pm

ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:Get your head out of your ass, you Belgian prick.

Now that really brings a lot to this debate.

GrimoreLibrarian · Post by **GrimoreLibrarian** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:52 pm

Pixel_Outlaw wrote:
GrimoreLibrarian wrote:What I'm wondering is what's the difference between Western and eastern shooters?
The amount of brown used.

From the Euroshmups I've seen brown wasn't used all that much. Unless you mean Jshmups use a lot of brown like Ikaruga. But when you take a step back both western and eastern shooters are guilty of this.

Unless you where talking about FPS and 3rd person shooters then I would have to say both western and eastern equally use a crap load of brown. But we are not talking about those kinds of shooters, we are talking about Shmups... on a Shmup forum.

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:59 pm

I don't object to "euroshmup" being a derogatory term. This place has always been harsh, full of people who hate christmas and stamp on kittens. There are plenty of euros I love and you could probably tease at least a bit of fun out of any of them - but 99% fall flat when compared to the best from japan and the only ones that do come close are souless copies of either R-Type or Gradius.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:26 pm

emphatic wrote:Is there ANY japan-made shmups where your ship has inertia? On purpouse? (And the flying parts of Metal Slug does not count).

Emph

All three "Ray" games come to mind (Rayforce, Raystorm, and Raycrisis). It might not be technical inertia, but when you let go of the d-pad, your ship drifts a bit in all three games (more so in the first one).

ChurchOfSolipsism · Post by **ChurchOfSolipsism** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:06 pm

KindGrind wrote:
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:Get your head out of your ass, you Belgian prick.
Now that really brings a lot to this debate.

People on this board talk about nothing all day long. Some douche states that he is "offended" because people say that shmups from a certain part of the world suck? You're doing the world a favour by telling people like that to fuck off.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:58 pm

Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:I don't object to "euroshmup" being a derogatory term. This place has always been harsh, full of people who hate christmas and stamp on kittens. There are plenty of euros I love and you could probably tease at least a bit of fun out of any of them - but 99% fall flat when compared to the best from japan and the only ones that do come close are souless copies of either R-Type or Gradius.

this is totally not true.

katakis is awesome, i also really enjoyed apidya.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:44 pm

captain ahar wrote:
Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:I don't object to "euroshmup" being a derogatory term. This place has always been harsh, full of people who hate christmas and stamp on kittens. There are plenty of euros I love and you could probably tease at least a bit of fun out of any of them - but 99% fall flat when compared to the best from japan and the only ones that do come close are souless copies of either R-Type or Gradius.
this is totally not true.

katakis is awesome, i also really enjoyed apidya.

ahar is right - Apidya is hardly a copy, and definitely not soulless. I'm afraid that Sly is correct on the 99% percentage though... But then again it's comparing a lively, established market (Japan) to something that had a wave in the eighties and then moved on (Europe).
.

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:14 am

Which games were ruined by inertia? I can only think of Project-X. It was present in Menace and Xenon II but wasn't an issue in either.

What about energy bars?

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:50 am

I abstained from posting here, since the whole debate is pointless.

but this is just bs:

All three "Ray" games come to mind (Rayforce, Raystorm, and Raycrisis). It might not be technical inertia, but when you let go of the d-pad, your ship drifts a bit in all three games (more so in the first one).

The "inertia" in these games is PURELY visual your ship has a little animation when it stops moving and the background keeps moving for a short while,BUT it doesn't affect gameplay in any way (since the games do not have bullet wobbling).

A pretty good definition of EUROSHMUP could be: "A shmup made by people who do not know much about the genre and what makes it fun"

It doesn't mean the games are bad, it simply means that they really aren't standard japanese STG style gameplay(which usually means not as fun).

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:41 am

nimitz wrote:I abstained from posting here, since the whole debate is pointless.

but this is just bs:
All three "Ray" games come to mind (Rayforce, Raystorm, and Raycrisis). It might not be technical inertia, but when you let go of the d-pad, your ship drifts a bit in all three games (more so in the first one).
The "inertia" in these games is PURELY visual your ship has a little animation when it stops moving and the background keeps moving for a short while,BUT it doesn't affect gameplay in any way (since the games do not have bullet wobbling).

Really? I just watched my ship drift back to the right after moving left, and it was hit by a bullet that sure looked like it would have otherwise missed me had it not done that. The bullets may not wobble, but your ship certainly seems to. It's like reversed inertia.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but all the little tests I've tried on it sure does make it seem like the bullets stay on their course, but the ship moves back a bit in the opposite direction it had been moving... resulting in it drifting closer to the bullets or lasers than it had been when you stopped.

RackGaki · Post by **RackGaki** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:28 am

Udderdude wrote:I propose the term 'SlidyShieldShmups' .. or maybe 'YourWeaponsDoJackShitShmups'

Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:This place has always been harsh, full of people who hate christmas and stamp on kittens.

Threadwinners.

Udderdude is truly on to something...

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:37 am

I was thinking "ShinyGlidyShmups" myself

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:22 am

Euroshmups are COLD and UGLY

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:25 am

Re Ray series: I'm not 100% sure but I've always thought what nimitz says. Reason being, I've played a ton of Rayforce and I don't think I've ever gotten hit even once because of it. I mean, I guess it's possible you'll be confused by it at first when you're new to the game and staring at your ship, but who stares at their ship?

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:54 am

captain ahar wrote:katakis is awesome, i also really enjoyed apidya.

But Apidya tried to be 'console like', i.e Japanese.

The Coop is right about the term 'Euroshmup' not being about quality, it's just that no quality Euroshmup have ever been done. And I mean this only half jokingly. I'd like to see a quality shmup that is still an Euroshmup.

I also believe that what nimitz said about European made shmups (A pretty good definition of EUROSHMUP could be: "A shmup made by people who do not know much about the genre and what makes it fun") could be said about most European developed action games.