Rob's Complete list of SNES shmups.

[SheSaidDutch]

The vert sections though I find utterly appalling, bad control, primitive attack patterns (feels like a PCE shooter).

*Cough....Cough* I'll pretend I didn't hear that comment about the PCE

I dislike UN Squadron for the same reasons as Rob.

Most of Rob's score list I disagree on thats MO

[Tychom]

But I feel it's true for a whole bunch of pce shooters, many that feel like no more than scrolling galaga 88s with beefy weapons bolted on. Enemies just come on screen in lines of 5, do an arc across it then bugger off again. All the while you stay parked in the center fully powered up holding down the fire button. Of course there's an occasional larger enemy, who'll go down with about 1 second of concentrated fire. Then you wait for what seems like forever until the next group of enemies come along too, that's a good one.

Course things got better, Nexzr improves on things a little for instance. But that to me is what far too many PCE shooters will be remembered for and what the vert sections of Axelay are like - a couple of small enemies come on in formation, and die, the occasional larger enemy too, who pose again little threat. I can certainly appreciate it may have been good at the time, and certainly enjoyable but in terms of level design there really isnt much there, it's basic, repetitive, easy and uninspired, not a whole lot different from silpheed - another vert that bought in nice graphics but forgot to put some effort into the game design.

[fishsandwich]

Greetings, all.

This is my first post, but I have been a lurker for some time now. I have finally been compelled to post becasue of these low-ass scores.

Super Nova a ONE? Come one, how! I know it's not a great shooter, but you give out ones and twos like nobody's business. Cad!

Phalanx a THREE? Ridiculous I say! I must bitch and groan!

My biggest gripe is FIREPOWER 2000. Have you played this game for any amount of time? This is one of the most underrated and underappreciated games in the entire SNES library, not just the SNES shooters. Get back to your SNES and play then fine game until you appreciate its genius!

That is all.

[dave4shmups]

"And U.N. Squadron only ranks a 3 out of 10 then?

Ooooo-kay... *slowly backs away*"

Hey, if those are ratings, then I wholeheartedly agree with UN Squadron getting a 3/10-the game has absolutely NO replay value thanks to Capcom putting in that stupid ceiling boss, which you can only beat with two of the available aircraft.

[Rob]

Hello and welcome, fishsandwich. I've never been called a cad before.

Firepower 2000. I have to say I just don't like that one. No specific complaints I would call major downfalls, just a general feeling of wanting to sleep while playing it, which is almost a 3 by default. I usually give a bonus point for these types of games if the graphics are nice (Cotton 100%), but in FP2000 the graphics are not nice.

[fishsandwich]

Hello and welcome, fishsandwich. I've never been called a cad before.

Firepower 2000. I have to say I just don't like that one. No specific complaints I would call major downfalls, just a general feeling of wanting to sleep while playing it, which is almost a 3 by default. I usually give a bonus point for these types of games if the graphics are nice (Cotton 100%), but in FP2000 the graphics are not nice.

I understand now... you live in ALASKA. Everyone knows that Alaska doesn't get as much sunlight as other States, and it's a documented fact that a lack of sunlight can lead to depression over time, as well as sleepyness. It can get very dark in Alaska as well.

That's why you gave these games so many low scores... you're depressed and pissy. That's also why you almost fell asleep during Firepower 2000... it's always dark there, so you fall asleep during many activities, including jumping jacks and rough sex. Thirdly and lastly, the dim light in Alaska has weakened your eyesight... this is why you can't see Firepower 2000's very pretty and colorful and goshdarn wonderful graphics.

You probably live near the ocean, so you can replace "cad" with "cod"

(blue from Alaska' s frigid temperatures)

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Hello and welcome, fishsandwich. I've never been called a cad before.

Firepower 2000. I have to say I just don't like that one. No specific complaints I would call major downfalls, just a general feeling of wanting to sleep while playing it, which is almost a 3 by default. I usually give a bonus point for these types of games if the graphics are nice (Cotton 100%), but in FP2000 the graphics are not nice.

I understand now... you live in ALASKA. Everyone knows that Alaska doesn't get as much sunlight as other States, and it's a documented fact that a lack of sunlight can lead to depression over time, as well as sleepyness. It can get very dark in Alaska as well.

That's why you gave these games so many low scores... you're depressed and pissy. That's also why you almost fell asleep during Firepower 2000... it's always dark there, so you fall asleep during many activities, including jumping jacks and rough sex. Thirdly and lastly, the dim light in Alaska has weakened your eyesight... this is why you can't see Firepower 2000's very pretty and colorful and goshdarn wonderful graphics.

You probably live near the ocean, so you can replace "cad" with "cod"

(blue from Alaska' s frigid temperatures)

Wow! All these harsh words spoken from someone who calls himself a fish...he even smells like one!

[fishsandwich]

Hello and welcome, fishsandwich. I've never been called a cad before.

Firepower 2000. I have to say I just don't like that one. No specific complaints I would call major downfalls, just a general feeling of wanting to sleep while playing it, which is almost a 3 by default. I usually give a bonus point for these types of games if the graphics are nice (Cotton 100%), but in FP2000 the graphics are not nice.

I understand now... you live in ALASKA. Everyone knows that Alaska doesn't get as much sunlight as other States, and it's a documented fact that a lack of sunlight can lead to depression over time, as well as sleepyness. It can get very dark in Alaska as well.

That's why you gave these games so many low scores... you're depressed and pissy. That's also why you almost fell asleep during Firepower 2000... it's always dark there, so you fall asleep during many activities, including jumping jacks and rough sex. Thirdly and lastly, the dim light in Alaska has weakened your eyesight... this is why you can't see Firepower 2000's very pretty and colorful and goshdarn wonderful graphics.

You probably live near the ocean, so you can replace "cad" with "cod"

(blue from Alaska' s frigid temperatures)

Wow! All these harsh words spoken from someone who calls himself a fish...he even smells like one!

Correction... I smell like fish AND tarter sauce.

[Nuke]

Bio Metal (6/10)
Macross Scrambled Valkyrie (9/10)
Parodius (8/10)
Parodius Da! (9/10)
Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius (10/10)
Space Megaforce (6/10)
Axelay (7/10)
Earth Defense Force (6/10)
Gradius 3 (9/10)
Syvalion (5/10)
Dropzone (4/10)
Spriggan Powered (4/10)
Pop N Twinbee (8/10)
Flying Hero (3/10)
Super R-Type (6/10)
R-Type III [9/10)
Imperium (5/10)
Thunder Spirits (5/10)
Cotton 100% (8/10)
Acrobat Mission (5/10)
Tekkaman Blade (5/10)
Blazeon (3/10)
Firepower 2000 (7/10)
UN Squadron (7/10)
Cosmo Gang (7/10)
Phalanx (4/10)
Fuzzy Shooting (3/10)
Raiden Trad (6/10)
Sonic Wings (6/10)
SD Gundam (2/10)
Caravan Shooting (5/10)
Darius Twin (6/10)
Super Nova (8/10)
Hunt for Red October (3/10)
D-Force (3/10)
Strike Gunner STG (5/10)
Galaxy Wars (2/10)

Fixed

[captain ahar]

When it comes to Axelay I'd be tempted to give it a 7, possibly pushing an 8 for it's horizontal stages (I think stage 4 is perhaps the most atmospheric shooter stage I've encountered anywhere) which I find varied, (fairly) well designed and do encourage proper weapon usage.

The vert sections though I find utterly appalling, bad control, primitive attack patterns (feels like a PCE shooter), sprite flicker.. I'd give them a 2, based on the very low scorings Rob is handing out

are there any codes to skip stages in this game. i can't stomach the first stage long enough to see the horzies. Axelay is very anti-fun given the first stage. Yeah! cool weapons, try and keep some ammo around for the boss! that's awesome.

[8 1/2]

What I ate yesterday:

Quaker Toasted Oatmeal Cereal: 6/10
Left Over Pizza: 2/10
Half Roast Beef Sandwich: 4/10
Barbecue Chicken: 7/10


Seriously Rob, I like that you gave out scores based solely on how you feel. Most review games with a more general picture, as in comparing a game to how it stands up to the rest of the library on the system it's on and also compared to it's era. Just saying, "You know what? I hate most everything," is actually sort of refreshing.

[Rob]

you're depressed and pissy.

I'd say.

Most review games with a more general picture, as in comparing a game to how it stands up to the rest of the library on the system it's on and also compared to it's era. Just saying, "You know what? I hate most everything," is actually sort of refreshing.

Nah, then it's going to look like I typed out Gamepro's scores circa 1992. I compared them to the shooters I've played and they ended up being 3s and 4s. So it goes.

[The Bullet Dodger]

Here's my favorite SNES shmups (in no particular order):


EDF
Axelay
Super Nova
Darius Twin
R-Type III
UN Squadron



ANYONE PLAYED THUNDER SPIRITS??? OMG, what a sorry excuse for a Thunder Force port. This game sucks huge monkey nuts. It deserves a spot on the "Top 10 Worst Shmups Ever" list.

[Nei First]

Speaking of SNES shooters, why in the hell do people love the SNES version of Gradius III and hate the "Arcade" version?

[Rob]

The arcade version is challenging.

[Nei First]

The arcade version is challenging.

People like their shmups easy, no way?

[overdrive]

The arcade version is considered brutally difficult, as in "WTF!!!! There's no f-ing way anyone can f-ing do this, DAMMIT!!!!!"

So, a version where it is humanly possible for the average person to make serious progress would likely get a bit more public acclaim.

I'm not overly familiar with the arcade version (mainly going from what I've heard about it), but I have played the SNES version. Pretty cool game, especially considering it's a first-generation title for that system. Personally, I'd rate it a 7-8, probably, but I haven't figured it out for sure.

[TVG]

here's the list of snes shmups i hate:
phalanx (emphasis on 1st place)
pop'n'twinbee
super aleste

that's the only ones i owned (phalanx being gba version) others i havent played enough, or just quickly in emulation.
i remember liking UN squadron tho.

i guess there's a whole different set of tastes for those that like arcade-ish shmups and those that like compile-ish ones.

[gingerj]

I see you've been to the Edge school of reviewing, because some of those scores are extremelty harsh to say the least.

[Nei First]

Damn, it's really "that difficult"?

Gee, that's a real shame, the music for this version is incredible too.

[tehkao]

Yeah the music in SNES Gradius 3 rocked.

[metalheaduk]

Hi all,

Another lurker here who has been prodded into posting about Axelay.

I Frikkin' love this game.

I think it is HUGELY atmospheric.....the music and sound effects really stay with you, and the Klaxon announcing the arrival of the boss really lets you know that something nasty is heading your way.

I also think the control and game mechanics work well...The 3 weapons are genuinely useful in certain areas.... and there is a strategical aspect to not getting hit whilst using a weapon that you know you are going to need shortly, and trying to lose the least useful first. My only control gripe really is that they should have given us the option to fire the missiles from the same button as the main weapons to avoisd havinfg to hold down 2 buttons.

I think Super Aleste more than holds its own too. These 2 are probably my favourite shooters on the Snes.

[Nei First]

Yeah the music in SNES Gradius 3 rocked.

The ARCADE version rocked also.

[BulletMagnet]

How about a no shield replay?

Least the file won't be too big to DL, as it'd last about 5 seconds.

Slightly off topic, methinks you're getting about as friendly a reception for this as I got for my old "Ten Shmup Commandments" topic, heh. Some people seem to be taking your comments and opinions as a personal insult or something...seriously, I don't agree with a bunch of what's said here, but why do half the people posting here seem to feel obligated to insert their own "lists" into Rob's topic? Debate if you wish, but seriously, let him have his own opinion even if it doesn't conform to that of "the shmup community," for Pete's sake...

[BrianC]

How about a no shield replay?

Least the file won't be too big to DL, as it'd last about 5 seconds.

Slightly off topic, methinks you're getting about as friendly a reception for this as I got for my old "Ten Shmup Commandments" topic, heh. Some people seem to be taking your comments and opinions as a personal insult or something...seriously, I don't agree with a bunch of what's said here, but why do half the people posting here seem to feel obligated to insert their own "lists" into Rob's topic? Debate if you wish, but seriously, let him have his own opinion even if it doesn't conform to that of "the shmup community," for Pete's sake...

Well, Rob interrupted one of my comments with a typical "there aren't many good shmups on SNES" post and Neon's post didn't help matters either. Also, two posts in a row bashing Axelay with one of them implying that people only liked it for the Mode 7 really and the other one making it sound like people shouldn't like the game got to me. This is the type of stuff I usually see on gamefaqs.

BTW, this topic basically started becuase of a comment I made about SNES and I really think Rob's creteria for rating the games is a bit harsh. It's his opinion, but that gives him no right to try and prove my opinion wrong. In other words, it's not really worth arguing about how good the SNES lineup is, though I think more consideration should be given for those who do like it.

Also, I was a bit pissed at the post Rob made saying in replay to other posts that people bashing the SNES is refreshing. Do you think that's something I shouldn't be pissed at?

BTW, some of this is probably over, but I posted this becuase I want to give BulletMagnet an idea my reception of this topic isn't completely welcome.

[Rob]

Do you think that's something I shouldn't be pissed at?

Yes. Where I'm from we make fun of the SNES on a daily basis and have a good laugh about it.

For the record a complete Genesis list from me would look fairly similar, and lots of Gen "classics" would get ranked low (Gaiares, anything Toaplan). They're not all going to be Lightening Force and Bio Metal-quality classics. I enjoy playing any shooter in just seeing what it's all about, even if I give it a low score.

[Neon]

anything Toaplan

Hmm, there's a first. Have you tried Fire Shark? Truxton I'll admit is average doggy poo. Fire Shark looks like ass but it's fun on hard.

BrianC: No, you shouldn't be upset. I admire Rob for being harsh on games (there's far too many good games out there to bother with poo, magazines are way too forgiving, nothing gets below a 5 these days). Also, it's just the internet. People are going to have different opinions. Like I said, my opinion of the SNES is a lot more harsh: once Megaman X gets ported that's it for my interest in the console. Maybe yours is different and we can discuss about it and learn something...it's like the ancient chinese proverb: opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one

[BrianC]

yeah, I know. I meant no disrespect, though maybe I was a bit too harsh. I just need to keep in mind that two people in a row saying a game is bad or agreeing with something I disagree with doesn't make what they are saying true for everyone.

As far as great non shmups games for SNES, there is the Goemon series (two of them will be released on GBA, but with the two player mode omitted. Three of the games on SNES have some shmup related bells and whistles too), Super Castlevania IV, Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts (on GBA too), Super Mario World (actually better on GBA), Yoshi's Island (on GBA too), Zelda: LttP (also on GBA, some people say the SNES one is better, but they are extremely similar), Chrono Trigger (on other systems, PSX version might be a better bet since it's cheaper and comes with another game), Return of Double Dragon (I love this game, though the levels don't have as many obstacles as other DD games. Definatly go for the Japanese one since you can catch the boomerang), F-Zero (didn't you say yourself that this one is better than the GBA one, Neon? Not sure how I rank this one amoung the others myself, but I do love the game), Super Mario Kart (still one of the best in the series after all these years IMO), Arkanoid Doh it Again, Battleclash, Metal Combat, Magical Quest (on GBA too and PSX?), Donkey Kong Country (SNES version is still the best), DKC 2 (Good version on GBA that is supposedly much better than the GBA version of DKC), Mario Paint (don't ask why. I just really like it for some reason. That fly swatting game is fun), Super Punch Out (on GCN in Fight Night Round 2), and a few others. I put some on other systems anyway because I still find them good games, but there are still some that haven't been ported yet and some with ports with missing features (not many) like Goemon 1 and 2.

[Darkcomet72]

One thing you have to consider, Rob dosen't use the Grade System that most reviewers use. Grade system means that anything below a 8 of 10 sucks.

Personally, I like Rob's numbering system better. 5 Should be average.

[overdrive]

Just to sort of give my opinion on the latest part of the argument that BrianC brought up.....(not like it matters or anything, but I'm bored.....)

1. In my opinion, overall, the SNES library of shooters isn't on the same level as the Genesis or TG-16. Of those systems, the SNES had the best games on an aesthetic level (graphics and sound), but the other systems had more games that PLAYED great.

2. BUT, the shmup market really got oversaturated during that time. While I found Rob's rankings to be a bit low with a number of games, I can understand why a somewhat comprehensive list of games for a system of that era would lean toward the low side. Yeah, a lot of good shmups came out at this time, but a ton of mediocre to crappy ones did, too. While I doubt we all can agree on which ones stunk (with a few exceptions), I think we all can agree that many shooters from this time were little more than derivative attempts to capitalize on the success of those great games.

3. Like Rob alluded to in his last post, it wasn't just the SNES that was guilty of having a ton of crappy games. The Genny released crap like Insector-X, XDR and more; while the TG-16 had Toilet Kids, Hani in the Sky, Toy Shop Kids and more.

While it seems like Rob's list was harsh in that mediocrity was punished with lower-than-usual ratings, it goes without saying that a lot of blah stuff was put on the market at that time.

As a point of comparison, here are the rankings for all the shmup reviews I've currently done for the three systems I've mentioned.

GENESIS:
Airbuster 7
Arrow Flash 5
Atomic Robo-Kid 4
Bio-Hazard Battle 9
Curse 4
Insector-X 2
M.U.S.H.A. 10
Truxton 4
Wings of Wor 7
XDR 1

SNES:
Acrobat Mission 7 (a wee bit too generous, methinks....)
Aero Fighters 6
Bio Metal 4
Darius Twin 4
Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius 10

TG-16:
1941: Counter Attack 7
Darius Plus 8
Heavy Unit 1
Saint Dragon 2
Super Star Soldier 9
Toilet Kids 2

While those are by no means complete samples, they do go to show that there was a lot of mediocre shooters during that time, which (in my opinion) makes giving out low ratings left-and-right a forgivable offense.