Rob's 91-95 arcade countdown: hidden gem search.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:38 am

I'm gonna tell.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:38 am

Fighter17 wrote:you know the mods can read this, right?

WOAH I TOTALLY DID NOT REALIZE THAT

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:41 am

shoe-sama wrote:
Fighter17 wrote:you know the mods can read this, right?
WOAH I TOTALLY DID NOT REALIZE THAT

Lower on the caps.

What's the next game Rob?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:57 am

fighter 17: maybe it would be best for you to just read the thread for now (and not comment). That is my nice way of saying stop posting. You also need to learn not to take great offense at everything.

You do not have to respond to this post. I will get back to the countdown soon. Hell of a lot of games to go and I don't want people to completely lose interest by page 5.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:21 am

No one's going to lose interest in only 5 pa.... Hey look, a Cave thread *wanders off*

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:53 am

I hate this thread and I'm losing interest. Delete every non-Rob post pls.

splitblkribbon · Post by **splitblkribbon** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:01 am

JoshF wrote:I Delete every non-Rob post pls.

I agree

(Delete this post)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:13 am

Noo, comments are good.

#68 Sand Scorpion (Face, 1992)

A game buckling under the weight of its highly mediocre Raiden imitation gfx. So much slowdown. Just chugging along at the simplest patterns.

#67 Zunzunkyou no Yabou (Sega, 1994)

Move in any direction like an arena shooter except you can only fire upwards, so it feels more like a single screen shooter. Even for the subgenre it seems overly random and cluttered. The hitbox is simply too huge to enjoy this much. After a few stages of swarming enemies and random debris you face extremely simplistic bosses.

This was only worth suffering through for their take on Captain America.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:18 am

By the time Rob is done doing all of his countdowns, he'll be the most qualified to vote in the top 25 shmups of all time next year ^_^ So far as his WRONG opinions go anyways.

That Captain America is... Well... It's something alright. My vocabulary lacks any words that fit what I think of that. It's not necessarily bad though, just... Err... *shrugs*

thewestexit · Post by **thewestexit** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:10 am

I'm surprised that anyone would knock Viewpoint. It was amazing when it came out and universally acclaimed. I still enjoy it, in any case.

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:17 am

There is far worse than Sand Scorpion. Al the crapy generic Dooyong games come to mind.

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:28 am

Rob wrote:Never play Viewpoint.

I don't even want to know what it takes to one life clear the game. The game is like one step beyond an R-Type style memorizer, to the point where it doesn't even feel like a shooting game anymore.

The angle takes this game over the edge, when there actually is a bullet pattern to dodge. It is hard enough to judge hitboxes in some of these games (with a clear overhead view). The checkpoints secure its barely above Play Girls 2 ranking. But, you know, at least they weren't relying on semi-nudes covered in corpses.

That you hate Viewpoint (and I'm referring to the Sammy-produced version for the Neo-Geo *only*) is okay. That you blame the *game* for your own ineptitude is not. That you put this game below freaking *Ghost Pilots* is an abomination.

Yes, I'm the guy who SonicR referenced. Viewpoint is my favorite game of all time. I've never played its equal. It most assuredly does *not* look "dated," any more than any shooter looks dated by any subjective standard. The music in this game is absolutely the best ever, and yes: the gameplay, *difficult as it may be*, is spot-on fantastic. Control is superb, and pattern recognition, a staple of any shooter, is plenty observable, if you're willing to put in the effort. You aren't. THAT'S OKAY....but don't hate the *game*, hate the (pseudo-) player.

I know this game probably better than 99.9999% of all people on this planet, with the possible exception of the original team that put it together, and perhaps a guy in Japan. Maybe two. I can probably say with relative safety that if I'm not the best player at it, then I was at one time. I can answer questions about this game that most people wouldn't know, much less even think to *ask*:

1. At what point value do the stars max out, and why does it matter?
2. How does one turn the moving blocks of Stage 6 into moving idols?
3. How does one defeat each and every boss using no bombs?
4. How, in Stage 5, can *both* pickups be gotten from the lava-encased area that quickly erupts by both pickups on opposite sides of the screen?
5. Pick a different question. Betcha I know the answer.

Sure, I probably sound like a bit of a whiny prick. Fair enough, I guess, but the fact that you hate this game (or, at the very least, your given *reasons* for hating this game) says more about you as a player than it does about the game. As always, the play's the most important thing, and it's got gameplay out the wazoo, with plenty to spare. It's my desert island game...not just my desert island shmup.

The hitbox is, believe it or not, probably the most completely honest hitbox you'll ever come across. It's your whole freaking *ship*. Why is that so hard to understand? Don't get hit by enemies or their shots, and don't get your ship trapped by the screen. Is it that hard to understand?

The angle of the game is its asset...screw all the horis and verts. Not that there's anything wrong with those (I like a *ton* of them), but Viewpoint's all *about* the angle. I mean, geez: look at the title, for crimony's sake. If you can't handle a bit of a different perspective, then perhaps you're just not up to the challenge. Again: don't blame the game for your own shortcomings as a player. The control of the ship *within the angle* is spot-on. When I'm "on," I can navigate through holes in bullet patterns that would make you think that I'm on a suicide mission...and come out smelling like a rose, because, you see: the gameplay is *there*. The control is *there*. As are the gorgeous graphics, music, sounds, and presentation.

You don't like it. More power to you...liking a game is almost entirely subjective. I won't argue that. I will, however, argue that if you can't handle this game's gentle twist on the genre, you're probably a pretty weak evaluator when it comes to judging a game on its merits as a proper shooter.

Not liking the game for its individuality is *not* the same as a game being unplayable. At all. Ever.

Oh, and have you *ever* thought about picking up a stinking *shield* in the game?

I can't recommend this game highly enough. For anyone, *anyone at all* to say that this game is worse than Ghost Pilots (which I don't hate, but I mean, come on...), I would say that their ability to play shooters is highly suspect, much less their personal taste in shmups.

Again, this whole diatribe *only* refers to the original game for the Neo-Geo, not any of the abominations that came on other systems. And those who made the PS1 "updated version" should be quickly escorted to the deepest circle of Dante's Inferno imaginable. Some crimes have no pardon, and a buddy of mine way back when sold his Viewpoint to buy that version, and never regretted anything more.

Viewpoint was then, is now, and always will be, awe-inspiring. GAMEPLAY COUNTS FIRST!

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:29 am

solid

fucking

gold

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:31 am

splitblkribbon · Post by **splitblkribbon** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:36 am

bsidwell · Post by **bsidwell** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:41 am

tl;dr

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:41 am

You've clearly never read any of Rob's other countdowns. ^_^

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:43 am

Arvandor wrote:You've clearly never read any of Rob's other countdowns. ^_^

'Tis true, 'tis true.

Still: it needed saying, whether he was being facetious or not. The merits of the game were in question based on garbage tactics, and I called shenanigans.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:44 am

Fight me. The loser has to be the winner's friend.

He is right about hitboxes. Raiden doesn't have DoDonpachi's hitbox because it's Raiden. Other than that

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:46 am

I no longer regret any second spent playing these games.

For anyone, *anyone at all* to say that this game is better than Ghost Pilots ... I would say that their ability to play shooters is highly suspect,

Well...

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:47 am

I'll agree that Viewpoint is a lot of fun. I'm a sucker for iso-shooters (especially ones that don't suck as bad as zaxxon), but its still a really good game.

ArrogantBastard · Post by **ArrogantBastard** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:52 am

boagman wrote:Viewpoint was then, is now, and always will be, awe-inspiring. GAMEPLAY COUNTS FIRST!

lollin' at dis

price-fucking-less

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:54 am

I wish I could get one impassioned fan in here for every game on this list. Exactly like that.

I'm still stunned people like Viewpoint.

That much.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:55 am

Dude, don't knock Zaxxon. I played that game a lot when I was a kid. I think I even looped it at one point

Granted, all I had was Paratrooper, Pac-Man, The Black Cauldron, Zaxxon, Rogue, and a defunct version of Alley Cats. Actually, the game was fine I think, we just didn't have a color monitor, so we couldn't actually play any of the mini-games. Just muck around in the alley.

bsidwell · Post by **bsidwell** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:59 am

Arvandor wrote:we couldn't actually play any of the mini-games. Just muck around in the alley.

That can't have been entertaining for very long. Bit like playing a game where nothing works but the options menu.
"Check it out, dude, I totally turned all the text French!" "NO FUCKIN WAY!"

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:08 am

Yeah, I think I only played it once for like... 20 minutes ^_^ I played the hell out of all the other games though. Rogue was freaking impossible though, Black Cauldron was exceedingly difficult, and the others are good old arcade infinites ^_^ Well, maybe Zaxxon ended, but I never got much further than early second loop.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:09 am

boagman wrote:The music in this game is absolutely the best ever

That's wrong.

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 am

Rob wrote:I wish I could get one impassioned fan in here for every game on this list. Exactly like that.

I'm still stunned people like Viewpoint.

That much.

Yeah, there aren't many games that would send me into a diatribe of a defense like that, but Viewpoint is one of them. I mean, to this day, it's still the most expensive single game I've ever bought (and worth every stinking cent).

I'll relate a quick story about it, if I may: being a guy whose primary passion is pinball, I used to go to college (in the early 90's) in downtown Chitown. The Marriott hotel stationed on Michigan Ave. had a little gameroom on the ninth floor, with the pool, exercise room, etc. It was most certainly supposed to be for guests only. I used to sneak up there to play their pinball machines.

It was also the only time I have ever seen Viewpoint on location in my life, and after devoting far too much time and money into this game, I realized that, like no other time in my life before or since, I *had* to own this game. I decided that, whatever it took, I was going to have this particular game for my very own, and soon. It was going to be costly, but I had no choice: it was a deep, entangled relationship with this filthy little dominatrix called Viewpoint.

I had a Neo-Geo AES within a year, I believe, bought solely for playing Viewpoint on. I wasn't able to find Viewpoint immediately, but Nam-1975 and Magician Lord were *great* stinking games to hold me over until I could find it. Which I did. I have never, ever sold it. It isn't in what you'd call "collector shape," but it's complete, and I buy games to *play* them.

I don't think I've ever, in my life, gotten more play-to-dollar ratio out of any game I've had, ever, system price included, and bargain basement games included.

Wow, that game just hurts me with its beauty. I've never met its equal, and if I won the lottery, I'd honestly see if I could legitimately put back the original team for a sequel...

crithit5000 · Post by **crithit5000** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:14 am

filthy little dominatrix called Viewpoint

DISTURBING

and if I won the lottery, I'd honestly see if I could legitimately put back the original team for a sequel...

If that doesn't pan out, perhaps you could buy Cave and force them to put their spin on whatever the hell subgenre of gaming this is.

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:14 am

zinger wrote:
boagman wrote:The music in this game is absolutely the best ever
That's correct.

Fixed!

Seriously, now: up until about two months ago, it was the only game soundtrack I had ever chosen to acquire (at all) and listen to while driving and such. It's that great, and it's every stinking track.

I broke down and bought the Ultimate Ghosts and Goblins soundtrack from Play-Asia during their 20% off summer sale, and that's been plenty nice, too.