Shooting Game Tournament 2007 (Themes/Game Selection Thread)

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:40 pm

@Shatterhand

What you describe is loosely how most of last years voting turned out anyway. In your case, you want people to be able to vote twice so they are comfortable with their initial unbiased choices.

It's a decent idea, but cutting 7 days time into 2 parts would not allow sufficient time for proper voting numbers. That is coming from the viewpoint that users should not need to check the forum every day or every 2 or 3 days to participate in this thing.

If you disagree with my viewpoint and are serious about your idea, I'll bring it up as a guideline question in-parallel to attempt an extension on # of voting days per week.

msm · Post by **msm** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:41 pm

i'd like to vote for the return of cave and raizing weeks please - they were the most fun last time

tviks wrote:Team Skandinavia came last if I remember right?

second to last iirc? they definitely didn't come last.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:59 pm

Wasn't last year voting being done in the "off week"? (ie, the week we weren't playing)

We could have 14 days of voting ,the 1st phase with 5 options being while we are playing the current game, and the 2nd phase in the "week off"

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:10 pm

Edge needs that first week to create the shortlist.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:19 pm

I assume we're going to have some new teams/new players. So when will team formation take place? How does one go about finding a team?

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:22 pm

hmm, I see...

well, whatever. It was a suggestion, if more people feel it's a good idea, then we may discuss it further.. if not, then just let it go

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:45 pm

CIT wrote:Oh, before somebody forgets to mention the obvious:

Cave Week

This week should be present in all STGTs by default though.

Let's be reasonable please.

People who dislike Cave suffered through a Cave week last time. Let there be one off year before having certain developers (who had their week) return. There are enough other devs that were overlooked last time to not need to rehash the same types of formulas. I can already picture the 5 (?) weeks shaping up nicely (easily) without Cave.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:45 pm

@Prof.
Edge will make a specific Registration thread next weekend-ish. The biggest change is players will answer a little 7-line quote-box they have the post to register. One of the questions is what team do you wanna be on right away. People who don't know but answered the rest of the 7 lines should give Edge enough info to sort people out easier. Otherwise it's just '06 tourney for the most part...with captains...

The long version is here. #6 or 7 I think...
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 728#188728

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:03 pm

Thanks, DJ. That's helpful. I'm looking forward to this, especially now that I'm much better situated for emulation.

I am worried that my skills are declining a bit with each passing year, but that's probably true of many of us. And I'm worried that things will get crazy busy once school starts, but that too is probably true of many of us. And I need to take a break from watching Rob's videos because they're a clear reminder just how terrible I am at shmups. Obviously I need to do some confidence building before the tournament.

Post by **nZero** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:22 pm

Too bad (insert modern system here) week would be patently unfair to a large portion of entrants. I could see some people cleaning up on PS2 week (lol Cave week) or Dreamcast week (Mars Matrix week).

Kaneko week makes my head hurt already. We might as well do Korean bootleg week if it's anything other than Air Buster.

Melee attack week? I dunno if there's enough material to cover it, though. The Milestone shmups are out of reach, as is Silvergun, leaving... uh... Gunbird 2?

Finally, I fully endorse Seibu week. Too bad Raiden DX isn't in MAME.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:18 pm

nZero wrote:Kaneko week makes my head hurt already. We might as well do Korean bootleg week if it's anything other than Air Buster.

cyvern (was in last year, icarus dominated if i remember)
air buster
Bakuretsu Breaker
red clash

still that's just four that i know of

cyern is certainly the most notable entry, way out of left field that one.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:23 pm

actually, Cyvern was in Ramus' weekly shmeet... and yeah, Icarus dominated it. That's why it wasn't an option in the STGT, because many people had just played it.

MA7 · Post by **MA7** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:42 pm

I really like the idea of '06 second place week, for what it's worth

Cave week is a given, yeah?

Garegga week

Neo Geo week? Mame will run most Neo games

What about 'Rob's random choice' week? and the winner of the week gets their INP replay reviewed by Rob on You Tube..... FTW!

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 pm

Neo Geo week? are we going to play Blazing Star again?

Keade · Post by **Keade** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:50 pm

Hi all!
I'd like to vote for :

Retro Week
Cute-Em-Up Week
Raizing

ps : just in case, this account wasn't created by an existing member wishing to vote more than once.
I'm most probably going to participate in the tournament, and post more !

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:50 pm

Rob wrote:
CIT wrote:Oh, before somebody forgets to mention the obvious:

Cave Week

This week should be present in all STGTs by default though.
Let's be reasonable please.

People who dislike Cave suffered through a Cave week last time. Let there be one off year before having certain developers (who had their week) return. There are enough other devs that were overlooked last time to not need to rehash the same types of formulas. I can already picture the 5 (?) weeks shaping up nicely (easily) without Cave.

STGT without Cave is like having a BBQ without any burgers and hotdogs.

I can think of a whole host of arguments in favor of a Cave Week, but maybe the most important one is that these games are simply the most popular score-centric shooters. Without a Cave game you can expect tournament outturn to drop significantly over last year.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:53 pm

It's a shame that

A) mame doesn't emulate sugh a BIG number of Mame games
B) Most cave games have been played to death here.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:11 pm

Personally, I don't get sick of Dodonpachi or EspRade or Guwange after dozen of hours spent on them, and I get really sick of most other shmups (Raizing and Psikyo in particular) after 1 hour spent on them -.-

However I do see STGT as an occasion of giving a deeper try to some of the other non Cave games other people like.

But I wouldn't be much attracted if there wasn't at the very least one of the Cave games I like in it @_@

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:44 pm

I can think of a whole host of arguments in favor of a Cave Week

I can think of one good one against: it was used last year.

, but maybe the most important one is that these games are simply the most popular score-centric shooters

Because what would make for a really interesting tournament is a week where people who were already fanatical can trounce everyone else. We already have enough of those.

Without a Cave game you can expect tournament outturn to drop significantly over last year.

Didn't Guwange have a lower turnout than expected? And that is with some people who were waiting for and only played during cave week.

What the tournament doesn't need are people who are only interested in playing Cave games. Which is what Cave fanaticism usually results in (the exclusion of everything else - see already the arguments about people who supposedly will not be interested/play unless they get their favorite game included).

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:01 pm

Is Cave really so much more popular than Raizing, Psikyo, and Treasure at the moment? Yeah, a few years ago there was a lot of interest. And yes, interest in DDP is pretty constant over the years. But I'm not convinced that Cave is still so popular these days.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:12 pm

Rob wrote:
I can think of a whole host of arguments in favor of a Cave Week
I can think of one good one against: it was used last year.

What was good last year is also good this year.

, but maybe the most important one is that these games are simply the most popular score-centric shooters
Because what would make for a really interesting tournament is a week where people who were already fanatical can trounce everyone else. We already have enough of those.

Well pretty much every high-profile shooting game has at least a couple of people on these boards that are really good at it (as a Takumi fanatic you should know), so you can never fully avoid somebody trouncing other players. Unless of course you only want to play semi-obscure games, which is great for maybe two weeks, but on whole I would prefer to see a healthy mix.

Without a Cave game you can expect tournament outturn to drop significantly over last year.
Didn't Guwange have a lower turnout than expected? And that is with some people who were waiting for and only played during cave week.

The reason was that almost all teams' final standings were already decided after week 5 - so there was no real point to participate anymore.

What the tournament doesn't need are people who are only interested in playing Cave games. Which is what Cave fanaticism usually results in (the exclusion of everything else - see already the arguments about people who supposedly will not be interested/play unless they get their favorite game included).

There's nothing wrong with only liking Cave games.

Post by **Icarus** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:14 pm

Shatterhand wrote:actually, Cyvern was in Ramus' weekly shmeet... and yeah, Icarus dominated it. That's why it wasn't an option in the STGT, because many people had just played it.

captain ahar wrote:cyvern (was in last year, icarus dominated if i remember)

I didn't dominate it at all. I was beaten by a small amount by NTSC-J, and only managed to get my personal best a couple of hours after the tournament week ended.

Obviously I'd like Raizing to return (and to some extent Cave), but it'd be nice to see other developers get the nod for selection this time around. Taito, Seibu, Konami, Capcom and other smaller devs have a nice selection of games that would make for good competition.

And we're already getting the "it's Cave or I'm not playing" people popping in already. Great. *eyes roll*

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:18 pm

cave weeks hould consist of only dangun feveron and uo poko that way i'll actually want to play it

incidentally those are the games most cave fans hate

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:40 pm

Icarus wrote:And we're already getting the "it's Cave or I'm not playing" people popping in already. Great. *eyes roll*

The most of those I (possibly) count so far is one, if that many...certainly outnumbered (and out-kvetched) by the "Silly Shmuppers, Cave Is For Scrubs!" crowd.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:45 pm

Cave

....-there's only like....6 games on emu, isn't there? Guwange is out from selection for many years time.....so....since we demand a shortlist of no less than 5....and the mob demands Cave Week this year; whatever we play will not be considered for eons and assuming Ketsui doesn't get its shit together...

-there won't be enough games to ever do it again

pretty funny. Let 'em have it if enough want it.

p.p.s. Cave & Hidden Gem Week tied for lowest number of players last year.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:49 pm

CIT wrote:What was good last year is also good this year.

Oh sweet, I vote for Armed Police Batrider. I've been meaning to play that one again.

Well pretty much every high-profile shooting game has at least a couple of people on these boards that are really good at it (as a Takumi fanatic you should know), so you can never fully avoid somebody trouncing other players.

Aye, but you are suggesting that their games being the most popular is a good thing rather than something that just can't be avoided. Again, not sure why this is being discussed since they already had their week. It is done, I played.

The reason was that almost all teams' final standings were already decided after week 5 - so there was no real point to participate anymore.

So people care more about the competitive aspect than which developers games are selected. Good sign.

There's nothing wrong with only liking Cave games.

Yeah, fine, but not a good basis for deciding the games here. I suggest Takumi games because I think they're great for competition, but I try to be a little objective. If they were selected last year I wouldn't mention them again and if they aren't selected this year I won't cry about it.

Get out of your comfort zones. You can play Cave games anytime you want.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:56 pm

I will definitely not play if we get another Cave week but are robbed of a Seibu week.

Instead, why don't we get a generic "manic" week? That way we can vote for the Takumi big wigs and Cave's less popular offerings, such as Dangun.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:18 pm

Twiddle wrote:Instead, why don't we get a generic "manic" week?

That's a big pool to draw from...I suppose that it does allow for variety, and could ostensibly be reused year after year, but you know that with such a huge field of possible contenders you're going to miff a lot of people who don't see their favorite game listed.

Post by **Icarus** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:19 pm

BulletMagnet wrote:
Twiddle wrote:Instead, why don't we get a generic "manic" week?
That's a big pool to draw from...I suppose that it does allow for variety, and could ostensibly be reused year after year, but you know that with such a huge field of possible contenders you're going to miff a lot of people who don't see their favorite game listed.

BATSUGUN SPECIAL.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:25 pm

I'll play whatever. I mean, I imagine I fall into the 'cave fanboy' catagory, but as has just been stipulated, a lot of these games have been done to death already. Guwange was an interesting choice, and I don't think that the low turnout last year for its inclusion should be indicitive of its lack of worth as a game. It just has a very intricate scoring system, which obviously put people off. Now it's been used, there's really not much more to choose from (aside from Dangun and Progear, neither of which I enjoy terribly). I'm much more excited about getting stuck into a game that i've never really played too much already.

anyway, cute-em-up week: seconded.

Caravan week: seconded.