*Warning* C64 Lack of Love on this board!

[MJR]

my 11 year old nephew was looking at me like a freak with when I was playing my supergun he said it looked like a broken computer

That was cruel

I've been trying to get my GF's 13 year old little brother understand how great old Capcom arcade titles were, by letting him play capcom collection on ps2 and then offering to sell my PAL copy for 10 euros (as I recently bought the better NTSC version)

No success. He felt the games were bit old and crap; imagine - he prefers star wars battlefront II to final fight, 1942 and ghost'n'goblins.
Outrage! Blasphemy!

[captain ahar]

Everyone's wearing...
NOSTALGIA GOGGLES.
Instant Nostalgia. Just add geek.

**pic**

-word . I am the most nostalgic person ever, and I am only 24 years old.

Cool pic

i'm the same way, getting nostalgic over things that don't even fit in my timeline. 22 years old, i love early-mid 1980's computers, 50's rockabilly, 60's garage, and the list goes on.

[Specineff]

The main reason I like the C64 is the sound.

www.kohina.com

Get listening, or toss your C64 gamer badge.

[Icarus]

The main reason I like the C64 is the sound.
www.kohina.com
Get listening, or toss your C64 gamer badge.

Was listening to that today (posted link in Online Radio Station thread earlier).
Hyper Duel, Axelay, Cybattler, Streets of Rage 2... nice playlist they have there.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Ok, I'll contribute...Blue Max by Synapse was/is cool. (Think a World War II styled Zaxxon).

Anyone remember "Deceptor"? Or does my memory fail to remember the proper name?

Back in the day, my Commy 64 provided plenty on entertainment for myself and my friends! Lots of great memories there...in an age long past.

[K-J N.]

Big C64 fan. As far as shooters go I like Enforcer: Fullmetal Megablaster, IO and SWIV, learned a lot about graphics thanks to the Shoot Em Up Construction Kit. Though there are plenty of other excellent games, also try newer stuff like Metal Warrior IV.

[stuntman]

Delta. Damn, I loved that game back in the day. Gorgeous sprites and enemy patterns, a superb Pink Floyd inspired in-game tune by Rob Hubbard, and tough but rewarding gameplay. Memorization of enemy patterns and which weapon to collect next were the key to success. I'm not sure I'd have the patience to learn it from scratch now, but back then it brought much enjoyment.

Yes, the C64 only had 16 colours and things could look a bit blocky, but a good graphician could overcome these limitations by selecting colours that would blend together. Remember, back then most people would have the old breadbox hooked up to a fairly small colour TV via RF or (at best) composite. Things look completely different when viewing with an emulator on a modern monitor.

[Ed Oscuro]

*Warning* C64 Lack of Love on this board!

thank god.

zoinks!

WinVICE seems to be where it's at for C64 emulation.

IRT Shatterhand's screenies:

Actually, some of those almost look better to me on the C64 (HORRIBLE GODAWFUL NONSQUARE PIXELS aside).

The TERRIBLE C64 PALETTE nearly ruins everything, although the MSX has awful Spectrum-style colors. Take the Yie-Ar screenshot - I think the distant gate looks better in the C64 version.

The 1942 screen - eh, the MSX version is playing in a tiny window, no screen scrolling. I'm not going to say anything about C64 programmers being better because I'm thinking of Sky Shark for NES (also runs in a window).

Outrun - which system actually runs it at a higher frame rate?

MSX:
Processor: Zilog Z80A running at 3.58 MHz

C64:
MOS Technology 6510 running at 1.02/0.99 MHz

HMM, I can't guess! However, the Commie had more memory as standard (64K standard, MSX machines had memory split between RAM and VRAM, although if you had a cartridge that more than nullfied the problem).

All that is almost made up for by the SID chip. SID-programmers bypassed the unreliable crystal oscillator and made some AMAZING TUNAGE happen.

[Ed Oscuro]

The main reason I like the C64 is the sound.

www.kohina.com

Get listening, or toss your C64 gamer badge.

screw that, go for the High Voltage SID Collection.

[mainpatr1]

Somebody is remaking IO with better graphics and easier difficulty level.

http://www.retroremakes.com/forum2/show ... 595&page=3

[Super Laydock]

Ok, I'll contribute...Blue Max by Synapse was/is cool. (Think a World War II styled Zaxxon).

Yeah, I remember playing that at my friend´s house being jealous about it a bit.
He was more jealous about Nemesis 2, Salamander and, dare I say it, Super Laydock though...

C64 sure was great though in the sound department (as mentioned), and a game like Last Ninja probably wouldn´t have been decently possible on MSX.
Last Ninja series is THE thing I remember the C64 most for. I can still hum the themes out of my head even today.

And I also though R-Type on it was great (I hadn´t played the Arcade before I played this so I could not be dissapointed with porting problems), and it surely kicked the MSX versions ass...

[Ed Oscuro]

ew, super laydock

it's basically a japanese Xenon: Megablast, from what I can see...

[Super Laydock]

ew, super laydock

it's basically a japanese Xenon: Megablast, from what I can see...

Blasphemy, I tell you!

[Ed Oscuro]

Ahh, so you don't deny it, does ya

[Super Laydock]

Ahh, so you don't deny it, does ya

oh no, I does not agree with any analogy.
No sir, me doesn´t.

Like Guano Apes said; "Open your eyes".

[Shatterhand]

c64 vs MSX

erm .... I guess screenshots say it all.

I don't remember playing R-Type on the C64... but the biggest mistake of R-type on MSX was that Irem actually wanted the game to work in an MSX 1, while having "slightly updated graphics" when running on an MSX 2. If the game was fully done for the MSX 2, it certainly would be a better game.

As it stands, it's an impressive achievement for an MSX 1 game, I think it's also the biggest MSX 1 game around (384 kb if I remember correctly, because of this the game was a bitch to crack, it's actually bigger than most MSX 2 games, and it doesn't fit in the 256 kb memory of your typical MSX 2). It's also, AFAIK, the only home version made by Irem itself.

And Super Laydock a japanese Xenon 2? Get real... Super Laydock is like 100 times better than the AMIGA version of Xenon 2, let alone a C64 version...


MSX version of 1942 doesn't run in a tiny window, that's just a border on the screenshot. This looks more like the real game: 1942 MSX

By the way, I actually have played Yiear Kung-Fu 2 on the C64, and it plays horribly compared to the MSX one. But I'll give that the MSX one is the original made by the almighty Konami, while the C64 was a port probably made iby some random European team.

Bring it on... the C64 is no competition for the MSX.


And if I was in a true 8 bits computer flame war, I'd ignore the good arguments . But yeah, the MSX PSG is no match for the C64 SID. I think that even with an FM-Pac or Konami games with SCC don't match with the SID songs (And of course, I think Europe got better musicians than Japan in the game department). But an MSX with a Moonsound shits on the SID chip.. but it's unfair, as the Moonsound was released VERY late in the MSX Lifespan, and nearly no games support it.

And I haven't played Outrun on the C64, so I can't compare, but the MSX one is very playable. but regarding racing games, can you give me something like F1-Spirit Special ?

http://baudejogos.vetorial.net/img_tel. ... 4000&num=4
http://baudejogos.vetorial.net/img_tel. ... 4000&num=3
http://baudejogos.vetorial.net/img_tel. ... 4000&num=2
http://www.lexlechz.at/msx/images/SccF13Ds.jpg



(Sorry Turrican for turning this on an MSX vs C64 thread.. I can stop it if this is annoying you, but as like Icarus pointed out, this is a nostalgic thread, and there's nothing more nostalgic to me than the old computer wars.. mine is better than yours.. but if this annoys you, I won't mention the MSX anymore on this thread:) )

[louisg]

http://www.worldofmule.net/tiki-index.php?page=MSX-1

C64 vs. MSX thread over.

[MJR]

Somebody is remaking IO with better graphics and easier difficulty level.

http://www.retroremakes.com/forum2/show ... 595&page=3

Ehh.. when people are going to learn that simply adding colors and resolution won't make graphics any better.
Graphics on that remake are worse than in the C64 version. MUCH worse.
Brilliant use of contrast that Bob Stevenson used is gone, all that is left is just flat looking overshaded sprites.

Nitpicking? Well, IO had maybe some of the best graphics I've ever seen in a computer game. Not even many arcade games could match Bob's pixel making skills, only PCB with as nice contrast was saint dragon, but even that had not as well done pixels.

@shatterhand: you can compare MSX and C64, but I'm not so into vs. computer wars. I remember the speccy vs.c64 and amiga vs. ST debates and they were bit tiresome. I rather embrace them all.
I wanted an MSX so I could play gradius AND that sweet looking running penguin game from konami, but had no money for second computer.

It's true that in the 80's, most of the european programmed games had pretty bad playablility compared to japanese developed games, but they often made that up with originality and atmosphere (which japanese developers didn't seem to handle quite as well. Though there were exceptions of course.)

[louisg]

Whenever the 8 bit wars come up, it's always about how closely a computer can imitate the NES experience. But, computers had different things to offer besides action games (yeah, I know this is shmups). It's this logic that leads people to endorse stuff like Great Giana Sisters. Computers, though, had many adventure games, RPGs, construction kits, music and art programs, and strategy games. The action games that stood out on computers were not usually the ports, but the original concepts.

But back to the topic, for 3d racing games (I think there was a post above about this?)...: http://www.lemon64.com/games/details.php?ID=388 .. This had good ports to a few systems, and plays really well.

[Herr Schatten]

Somebody is remaking IO with better graphics and easier difficulty level.

http://www.retroremakes.com/forum2/show ... 595&page=3

Those screens look terrible. Why do people always confuse "higher resolution" with "better graphics"?


EDIT: MJR beat me to it.

[Ed Oscuro]

But, computers had different things to offer besides action games (yeah, I know this is shmups). It's this logic that leads people to endorse stuff like Great Giana Sisters.

This is a great point, just wanted to give it some ups.

It might nullfiy the MULE point, though, as I'm sure there's some people who are die hard MSX strategy game / GO fans (...or not). The MSX had Final Fantasy as a sort-of-counterpart to C64 adventure games. On the whole you can tell that market was dominated by the ol' red & white monster, though.

[Turrican]

(Sorry Turrican for turning this on an MSX vs C64 thread.. I can stop it if this is annoying you, but as like Icarus pointed out, this is a nostalgic thread, and there's nothing more nostalgic to me than the old computer wars.. mine is better than yours.. but if this annoys you, I won't mention the MSX anymore on this thread:) )

It doesn't annoy me in the least, actually. But I think you're a bit cheap when you constantly mention MSX2, which is leaps over the original hardware...

If you want my two cents on the matter, for what they're worth (I began my gaming life with the Amiga and the NES), I did get the impression that C64 became a cultural phenomenon in Europe, while the MSX is mostly remembered on shmups boards thanks to Konami and Compile. In terms of impact, it's roughly the same situation as Amiga and X68000.

About this thread... Truth is, I knew there were experts on board, and I've read all the memories with pleasure. I don't think however this is for nostalgia purposes only. For someone who really dislikes the current direction the genre has taken, discovering good shmups of the past means a goldmine of worthwhile gameplay. I spent more time playing Terra Cresta than Raiden III recently. Can't see this just as an optical illusion.

[K-J N.]

I don't remember playing R-Type on the C64...

The rather famous story of C64 R-Type. Rainbow Arts released Katakis but Activision who had the conversion rights for the home computer versions of R-Type forced it of the market because they thought Katakis was to similar to R-Type. However Activision had some problems with their own conversion so they scrapped that and hired the Katakis guys to redo the C64 version but it had to be finished in just six weeks(!). C64 R-Type plays ok when you think about how rushed it was but it's not quite R-Type and with more time it could have been so much better. Having said that, the title tune that Chris Hülsbeck did is so much R-Type for me that I expect to hear it whenever I play an R-Type game no matter what system and I'm dissapointed when it doesn't every time.

[louisg]

Having said that, the title tune that Chris Hülsbeck did is so much R-Type for me that I expect to hear it whenever I play an R-Type game no matter what system and I'm dissapointed when it doesn't every time.

That title theme is excellent. Wasn't that Huelsbeck with Ramiro Vaca? And I really like the SID rendition of the stage 1 theme (up there with the better remakes of that tune). The port itself seems like it kind of takes a dive after the st3 battleship though.

You know what I expect to see every time on the other versions is the parallax!

[Ed Oscuro]

I did get the impression that C64 became a cultural phenomenon in Europe, while the MSX is mostly remembered on shmups boards thanks to Konami and Compile.

Well, not quite - MSX computers had a huge impact in northern Europe (especially the Netherlands), South America, and to some degree Russia and parts of the Middle East.

In terms of impact, it's roughly the same situation as Amiga and X68000. :)

Don't think the analogy is quite the same. X68000 certainly gets a bit much hype from some quarters (many of the games are simply arcade ports), although it's not as bad as seems to be the FM Towns hype.

I spent more time playing Terra Cresta than Raiden III recently. Can't see this just as an optical illusion.

See, that doesn't make sense at all, because this is what I'd do. Where does Xenon II fit in???

[ROBOTRON]

I remember playing "Wavy Navy" on the C64.

[Shatterhand]

believe, I don't take this computers wars seriosuly at all, I am doing it just for fun.

I already knew all the story behind the C64 version of R-Type, I just don't remember playing it

And I didn't even know Mule got an MSX version!

[louisg]

believe, I don't take this computers wars seriosuly at all, I am doing it just for fun.

Yeah, and I would looove to have an MSX. Were most of the games on magnetic media, or did it have carts? It's such a bummer that all the kick ass old compy stuff is so fragile.

[Ed Oscuro]

believe, I don't take this computers wars seriosuly at all, I am doing it just for fun.

Yeah, and I would looove to have an MSX. Were most of the games on magnetic media, or did it have carts? It's such a bummer that all the kick ass old compy stuff is so fragile.

In Japan, most were on cartridge, although later on they started using modern-style floppies heavily, which makes transferring games relatively easy (although you need the right tool + patience + a bit of luck to do it, since they're in 360K format or so). There's floppy versions of most everything at this point.

In Europe, lots of MSX games were released on cassette tape.

[Shatterhand]

Most of the cassete tape games were at some point converted to disk.

and MSX disks are usually 720 kb, not 360kb. I read in many different places that the 3 1/2 floppy disk was created to be used with the MSX!

with an real MSX, you can use Execrom to load .rom files. The limit of the size of the rom you can load is determined by how much RAM your MSX has.