Your definition of a shoot-em-up

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:06 pm

pres butan fire bulat

ubersaurus · Post by **ubersaurus** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:27 pm

Arvandor wrote:I think the big problem is that you're all trying to define a term that is generally very broad. Some people are trying to use the term shoot-em-up to describe what is truly just a subgenre; the 2d auto-scrollers.

In Metal Slug you shoot stuff up.... it's a shoot 'em up. Heck, you could make arguments for FPS games being shooters (though I always loathe the connection for some ... probably elitist... reason). What we need to do, is focus on defining the sub-genres.

This man speaks truth.

Do you shoot things as the main gameplay element? It's probably a shooter then. Wikipedia certainly seems to have the idea; 2d scrollers, fixed screens, arena shooters, tube shooters, rail shooters, and platform shooters all have their own categories.

They all fit broadly into the idea of a shooter, but they're all distinct.

For the sake of argument though, a 2d shooter for me is anything where you shoot things while moving on a 2d plane in 1 or 2 axes. Aforementioned things could be other players, such as Spacewar, or Senko No Ronde. Platformer elements are included for me, as is gravity and inertia.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:56 pm

The best definition is the one that eliminates the most bad games, like on rails shooters.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:47 am

Contra isn't a shmup, nor is Metal Slug. Both are Run N Guns or Action Shooting Games(as has been said before). It's pretty obvious, in my opinion.

However, once I went to a site that said that Rondo Of Blood was shooter, so there are some odd ideas of what a shmup is running around out there.

s/m

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:57 am

Rob wrote:The best definition is the one that eliminates the most bad games, like on rails shooters.

I like Starblade and Star Wars. So sue me.

I like my definition because it includes games which feel like shmups to me.

I think I need to further define shooting game as a game in which shooting things is the object. So Wipeout doesn't count. Shmups/shoot-em-ups are a subcategory of shooting games.

Veracity · Post by **Veracity** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:33 pm

doctorx0079 wrote:I like my definition because it includes games which feel like shmups to me.

That makes sense, but also kinda neatly sums up why trying to produce a rigorous definition everyone will agree on is on the windmill-tilty side. Turrican's take (roughly 2D-ASS) way back is much more rigorous, and I would say is roughly as good as it's going to get, but even that's not hard to pick holes in. The strict 2d plane excludes Ray*, Xevious and Tokio. He's (I think, apologies if mistaken) jumping through a couple hoops to make sure tube shooters go in, while some would probably want them excluded. Listing forced scrolling as 'not always required' is an awkward compromise that doesn't mean a lot in practise - I think I see what it's aiming to exclude, but listing a non-requirement doesn't make that much sense. Even emphasis on shooting and dodging can be disputed, particularly if you'll allow 'emphasis' to extend to scoring, for which shoot'n'dodge can be relatively unimportant.

Regarding the claim that favoring 'feel' or 'common sense' is wilfully imprecise: yes, it is, but I think it's not so much evading the problem of strict definition as disputing whether there's a problem in the first place. If I was trying to set up a database of every video game ever I'd want rigorous criteria, and embrace any necessary largely arbitrary decisions along the way. But what's actually at stake here? What's on-topic in a niche forum? Admittedly, if I didn't consider shmup such a daft word to begin with I might be easier to convince that it matters. No-one actually uses it in polite company, right?

I think I need to further define shooting game as a game in which shooting things is the object.

Damn, that's Psyvariar out. Also arguably Takumi reflect shield games. Though I think shooting stuff has always been a somewhat secondary goal right back to the roots of the genre, despite its name - your primary concern is usually not getting hit.

Next up: Rob adds 'must require a specific minimum amount of player avatar movement', ensuring Touhou and Compile games aren't shmups.