Checkpoints in shmups: love ‘em or hate ‘em?

[Adigun A. Polack]

Remember those plenty of times on certain shmups (like R-Type, Gradius, Truxton, Kyukyoku Tiger, Daioh, Shienryu, Grind Stormer/V-Five, and quite a handful of others!) where when your ship/character bites the dust, you restart the level at a checkpoint that you have last reached... or WORSE, at the beginning!!! Very infuriating if you ask me ( ! ), especially because you start again with just a measly pea-shooter without any extra power-ups immediately to get you right back into the game again, as it was done with Gradius III (arcade version) and Armed Police Unit Gallop — especially in the later levels!! Thankfully, not all games are like that, though, since they let you respawn to the exact point that you last died without restarting... I mean, just look at the Cave shmups (DoDonPachi, Espgaluda I & II, Ibara, Mushihimesama Futari), for example.

So with that said, what type of restart point that you are much more comfortable with when playing a shmup? Respawn, checkpoint, or from the beginning? And do feel free to voice your thoughts about that!!

See you again, and as for me, I am much more comfortable using the respawn system myself in my opinion. =b

[Sonic R]

I hail from the olden days where many games were check point games. As a child I played many hours with feeding many credits to learn and try to improve my play in classic check point style games (R-Type, Gradius)

I even play Gradius V with check point for a long while and learn the first 2 levels well!

I am spending time with Last Hope and have first level down (cannot defeat boss yet )

I am flex with either check point or respawn - but I am shameful as I am feel ok for credit feed check point style where I am not gain anything when credit feeding respawn so credit feed respawn game is worthless and even more shameful.

[Adigun A. Polack]

You know, not all checkpoint setups are bad... when they are placed strategically and correctly so that the player is given a *real* chance to get right back into the game (through a well-balancing of some proper extra power-ups immediately, at least!), this is where it’s all good, you got me now? ! Other than that, Sonic R, the whole game goes RIGHT down the drain really fast in possibly a lot of shmupper’s eyes, even when it gets so rather damned outrageously difficult that it is nearly impossible for the player to recover at all, too!

One splendid example of the use and strategy of checkpoints was Nemesis (arcade version)... every time you die and restart, the game throws a well balanced little diet of power-ups immediately to help get you right back up to speed again, which helped make the game MUCH more fun to play in the first place!!!

On certain other shmups, however, they just jack up the difficulty so blatantly high the farther you progress to where if you die even once, there are NO power-ups to even help you upon restarting with just a small cannon that don’t even do squat, and that really just stinking sucks and then some!!! No wonder that it becomes such a horrendously cheap way to rack up earnings in the arcades, and this is the part where checkpoints should *definitely* be kicked to the curb on any shmup that does this kind of unfair balance, I think!!

So folks, case in point: if you were to be designing your own shmup with checkpoints in it, just make sure they are carefully thought and planned out STRAIGHT to the point of being much more fair to the player to where he/she is actually given a sure fighting chance!!! =b !

[shinsage]

Hate.

[theevilfunkster]

I HATE checkpoints

[Geezer]

Respawn FTW!

[Bloodreign]

Some games, checkpoints, others respawn, it all depends on the game if the options available.

[PFG 9000]

Said Super R-Type to a spiteful crowd, "What the fuck is a checkpoint?" And from those days on, Super R-Type was a very lonely game.

[Belmont]

Check points = the sux

[Adigun A. Polack]

Yes, Super R-Type on Super Famicom/Super NES had the BRAIN-DEAD WORST use of checkpoints I had ever seen indeed, in that it literally forces you back to the beginning of the current stage on purpose every time you died ( ), especially after you tried so furiously hard to reach an end-boss!! That is the kind of stuff that makes you want to chuck your controller and your system across the room and throwing forth expletives, doesn’t it?! I mean, I have experienced this butchery of a game for myself and it absolutely made me NOT want to play it anymore period, let me tell you!!!

So to me, it has gotta be respawn all the way indeed. No exceptions. !

[Damocles]

Hell, my favorite shooter Undead Line eschews checkpoints all together and makes you restart the level without any weapons. In short: Don't die.

[monoRAIL]

Guxt has got good checkpoints.

[Herr Schatten]

Depends on the game. Well-chosen checkpoints can do a game more good than instant respawn. Look at the different versions of Hellfire. The one with the checkpoints is much more playable.

[JoshF]

In my experience checkpoints usually hang you out to dry. I'd rather restart a level and have a chance to level up. Plus a lot of the times the score counter doesn't reset. And in danmaku, it's pretty much an inevitability that you're going to die (for most people) and with having to go back you'd never beat a level.

[Kaiser]

Hell, my favorite shooter Undead Line eschews checkpoints all together and makes you restart the level without any weapons. In short: Don't die.

same happens with dragon spirit: the new legend on nes, if you die let's say on stage 6 with green dragon form you needed to clear out destroyable ice then you die many more times there

[Xargon]

Hate.

x2

[Andi]

Hell, my favorite shooter Undead Line eschews checkpoints all together and makes you restart the level without any weapons. In short: Don't die.

same happens with dragon spirit: the new legend on nes, if you die let's say on stage 6 with green dragon form you needed to clear out destroyable ice then you die many more times there

I disagree. While, true, the point you are talking about is one of the hardest recovery points in the game, all in all, Dragon Spirit is so generous with power ups that dying doesn't completely screw you. When you respawn you aren't bombarded with power ups, but certainly, you'll have an extra head and a speed up if you can stay alive for 20 seconds.

[tuoma]

Super r-type is just mean... My parents gave it too me and i don't think i would have beaten it if I had any other games to play, except for super ghouls n ghosts.

My vote goes for instant respawn, no paus that disrupts your gameplay.

[shoe-sama]

respawn as long as you get to power up

[Adigun A. Polack]

In my experience checkpoints usually hang you out to dry. I'd rather restart a level and have a chance to level up. Plus a lot of the times the score counter doesn't reset. And in danmaku, it's pretty much an inevitability that you're going to die (for most people) and with having to go back you'd never beat a level.

As for checkpoints usually hanging players out to dry, that is even MORE true 1,000 times over in a danmaku-based game if that were to happen there indeed, forcing the player to restart with absolutely NO necessary power-ups to grab right away upon so. That not only leaves him/her hanging indeed, but also causes players to just run away from the game in sheer total hate and disgust, REAL FAST!! Utterly sad. !

You know, in the original arcade programming of Progear for Capcom, I think Cave made such a big mistake where in the second (2nd) loop of this game, when your plane got destroyed in a solo-player game, you usually had to restart from the *very* beginning of the level, with the rank already way up in the first place, never going down to the point of making things fair and balanced to give the player a sure shot at finishing the level, ever. That became so annoying rather quick there to where apparently most players did not want to finish the game at all. However, Cave sure damn well made up for it by sticking with the respawns instead of checkpoints in later games since Progear (and very good for them for getting back on the right track, too!! ).

So for this reason...

Danmaku + Unbalanced Checkpoints = NO WAY!!!

That is what I’d simply say. Period, end of the conversation, and I know how a lot of you people feel about checkpoints that are just not fair at all. And with that, I share my heartfelt sympathy here ( ! ).

[Ayanami]

Check points suck.

[TKGB_Mental_Gear]

I dont mind playing checkpoint games. They are sometimes fun like Terra Cresta, but I would prefer the games where you respawn to the same spot, that is if you lose a life. If you lose all lives and have to start over, that's okay as well.

[Turrican]

It depends on the game, but I'm usually happier with respawn. Still, the shmups leaning towards strategy and memory can make a great use of checkpoints. When I play for score, it's back to the level's beginning. So all of them have their pros and cons.

[Fighter17]

Respawn is better.

[sven666]

NOT ENOUGH SHMUPS RESTART THE ENTIRE LEVEL DAMMIT!! XD

[DEL]

Herr Schatten wrote;

Look at the different versions of Hellfire. The one with the checkpoints is much more playable.

^The 1Player Hellfire board (1 loop) with checkpoints is harder to 1CC. The 2Player Hellfire (2 loops) with respawn is easier.
Learning to recover from deaths late in the 1 Player version was a real pain. I found it harder to do 1 loop of the checkpoint version than to ALL both loops of the respawn version .

Same goes with that other Toaplan game Kyukyoku Tiger/Twin Cobra. The checkpoint version provides real recovery problems from ST9 onwards. Of course this still doesn't stop the Japanese from Counter Stopping Kyokyoku Tiger . Mulletgeezer recently returned from Japan and told me that he saw a 7,000,000 score on it while he was there.

[Herr Schatten]

Herr Schatten wrote;

Look at the different versions of Hellfire. The one with the checkpoints is much more playable.

^The 1Player Hellfire board (1 loop) with checkpoints is harder to 1CC. The 2Player Hellfire (2 loops) with respawn is easier.
Learning to recover from deaths late in the 1 Player version was a real pain. I found it harder to do 1 loop of the checkpoint version than to ALL both loops of the respawn version .

I stand corrected.

[DEL]

^No need to be corrected, I assure you. The checkpoint version is still very playable......just harder .

[Ko.oS]

iirc, in gemini wing, when you lose a life you respawn, when you lose your LAST life and you put in another coin, you go back to the beginning of the level. thats an okay system i think.
in modern shooters i would imagine checkpoints would destroy the scoresystem (perform a stage long chain in the last stage, die, go back to checkpoint and perform another long chain, wtf -- or -- bomb the flamingoes, get lots of extends, die, go back to the checkpoint, repeat ad infinitum, yawn), however, borderdown checkpoints, so there are ways around that.
sorry for the shit writing style.

[kccttzj]

I honestly never really minded checkpoints until I played Gradius Galaxies. There was a part that I got to where if you die, you checkpoint to a place where you *have* to have at least two speedups to survive, so I lose every life on that part.

I prefer respawning, but there are quite a few games with checkpoints that I enjoy too as long as they're not cheap about it.