Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

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Steven
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Steven »

Raiden DX has freakishly smooth controls, too. That game's controls make it a lot of fun to play, at least at first before it completely smashes you.
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XoPachi
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by XoPachi »

Sengoku Strider wrote:
Nicely done, that's the best feeling.

Image

Ketsui might have the most perfect feeling controls I've ever tried in a vert shooter. I know a lot of the smooth feel comes down to how they implemented the animation, but I remember even when I first encountered the arcade machine, after 5 seconds it was like "Oh. This one I like." Playing Deathtiny I came away with a similar feeling as you did, that I was pulling off moves I was never capable of before.

I was so proud of myself that I, too, even GIFed some of my replay and sent it to people:
Spoiler
Image
At the time I couldn't read bullet trajectories from that far away yet, and I was just white-knuckling it on a PS4 dpad. I couldn't believe I was able to even see half those bullets, let alone dodge them in real time.

And that concludes my essay on why shmups are awesome, the genre of champions.
It's extremely weird that an STG can actually feel...bad. Like screwing that up doesn't make sense to me. But it's possible and I don't understand.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

XoPachi wrote:It's extremely weird that an STG can actually feel...bad. Like screwing that up doesn't make sense to me. But it's possible and I don't understand.
Laggy inputs can create the sense that your ship is sluggish or floaty. Ship speed might be too slow or too fast for the obstacles presented to the player. A lack of turning animation, or animation cycles that kick in too long after the input starts can create the sense that your ship is stiff and create a sense of disconnection from it. And hitboxes that are too large or not where the player expects them to be lead to excess movement-related deaths which can directly exacerbate the frustrations of all of the above.

There's a surprising amount of technique that went into Cave's titles in their heyday, they figured out a ton of elements that improved the player's sense of immediate connection to their on-screen avatar. Look at how quickly the turning animation kicks in in Ketsui, and how smoothly animated it is. Then go play Gradius or something.
Steven
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Steven »

Doesn't Gradius literally have 0 frames of input lag? Like you press the button or move the lever and the action happens on the next frame. That's what Lander said a while ago.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Steven wrote:Doesn't Gradius literally have 0 frames of input lag? Like you press the button or move the lever and the action happens on the next frame. That's what Lander said a while ago.
I was just thinking of the vertical turning animation. I played through it recently and kept thinking "This would be such a development no-no in 2023." In its own context, it's perfectly fine.
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EmperorIng
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by EmperorIng »

The lowest something can have is 1 frame: you do something, one frame later the game reads the input. This I think is exceedingly rare, if not unachievable. It's likely that the response time is 2 frames, which is still extremely fast and responsive, probably seeming instantaneous to the eye.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sima Tuna »

I'm currently playing Raging Blasters. The game is fun. I enjoy these caravan style shmups. I think the music is even better than the game though. The music is just phenomenal. I got the easy mode (normal) 1cc mostly because I wanted to keep playing to hear the soundtrack. The Hard and Extreme 1ccs will take me a lot longer because I'm not good at shmups. One thing I really appreciate about Raging Blasters is the lack of gradius syndrome. Your shot doesn't power up at all and the sub-shot weapon has only one power level. You either have a sub shot or you don't. If you have one, then it's max level. Collecting power ups at max power gives you more score and/or changes your shot type. So recovery is basically instant when you die.

I'm playing the switch version which has the updated graphics. The graphical improvement over the original Raging Blasters is substantial and puts the game's visuals on par with its pc-engine inspirations. The environments, art and overall style of the game remind me most of Soldier Blade (obviously) and Radiant Silversword. The whole game takes place in space and the levels feel very connected thematically.

I do acknowledge that many shmup veterans would probably find this game too easy or boring, because it does that Aleste thing of allowing you to destroy enemy bullets with your own shots. So sometimes the smartest play is to concentrate your fire forward and stay at the back of the screen. Assuming no bullshit from behind rams into you, you are pretty much invulnerable (for a while anyway.) But it's still fun, mainly because of the scoring. You can theoretically sit at the back, but I think the more fun way to play is to scoop up all the point items that fall and try to kill every wave for bonus points. In my view, avoiding enemies and letting them fly away is lame. Kill everything! Between the boppin' soundtrack, wave-based carnage, exploding points numbers and falling gems, score chasing is a blast.

I remember hearing about Raging Blasters back when it was a hype new shmup and I didn't know what the fuss was about. But nah, it's pretty fuckin' cool. Especially if your tastes bend towards caravan shmups. I'm tempted to pick up Moon Dancer now, especially since the same awesome dude did the music for that one.
sunnshiner
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by sunnshiner »

I'm back to Under Defeat and Zero Gunner 2. I will never 1cc them but they're so great I don't care :lol:
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Sima Tuna wrote:I remember hearing about Raging Blasters back when it was a hype new shmup and I didn't know what the fuss was about. But nah, it's pretty fuckin' cool. Especially if your tastes bend towards caravan shmups. I'm tempted to pick up Moon Dancer now, especially since the same awesome dude did the music for that one.
The name is kind of generic so this game never really hit my radar, but this totally sounds like something I'd have a good time with. I spent like an hour with the caravan modes in Spriggan last night - which I thought were pretty awesome BTW.

The game was Naxat's first summer carnival title, and I think the caravan modes might explain a lot about the things people often critique in the main game's design. The modes are built around bombing like a madman, and using those bombs to generate/uncover screen clearing bomb orbs to further chain with, but also having to pick those spots or you'll be too weak for the sections with waves of majors where no power ups appear. Weapons which I totally ignored in the main game like the blue rotating shield or the double yellow waves that explode on impact actually shine here at clearing out ground blocks. In the main game I found the top speed a little too unwieldy for a lot of sections, but here it seems almost mandatory for the routing some of the bonuses demand. And that's the other thing, routing is irrelevant in the main game, but certainly does feature here. I have to say I'm enjoying this better than I did the Soldier Blade caravan modes.
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m.sniffles.esq
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

I'm back to Under Defeat and Zero Gunner 2. I will never 1cc them but they're so great I don't care :lol:


Under Defeat--I feel you.
But I got ZG2 without really banging my head against it (granted, it's easily my most played DC shooter, so I put a lot of hours in. But I don't remember there ever being a point where I was like "Never!! It's impossible!!")
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Stevens
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Stevens »

sunnshiner wrote:I'm back to Under Defeat and Zero Gunner 2. I will never 1cc them but they're so great I don't care :lol:
I love Under Defeat. Like really love that stupid game. Haven't played it in a bit, but only because I haven't had a way to hook up my DC. I think I need to buy an Akura.

Probably have over 400 hours in it.
My lord, I have come for you.
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To Far Away Times
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by To Far Away Times »

Sima Tuna wrote:I'm currently playing Raging Blasters. The game is fun. I enjoy these caravan style shmups. I think the music is even better than the game though. The music is just phenomenal. I got the easy mode (normal) 1cc mostly because I wanted to keep playing to hear the soundtrack. The Hard and Extreme 1ccs will take me a lot longer because I'm not good at shmups. One thing I really appreciate about Raging Blasters is the lack of gradius syndrome. Your shot doesn't power up at all and the sub-shot weapon has only one power level. You either have a sub shot or you don't. If you have one, then it's max level. Collecting power ups at max power gives you more score and/or changes your shot type. So recovery is basically instant when you die.

I'm playing the switch version which has the updated graphics. The graphical improvement over the original Raging Blasters is substantial and puts the game's visuals on par with its pc-engine inspirations. The environments, art and overall style of the game remind me most of Soldier Blade (obviously) and Radiant Silversword. The whole game takes place in space and the levels feel very connected thematically.

I do acknowledge that many shmup veterans would probably find this game too easy or boring, because it does that Aleste thing of allowing you to destroy enemy bullets with your own shots. So sometimes the smartest play is to concentrate your fire forward and stay at the back of the screen. Assuming no bullshit from behind rams into you, you are pretty much invulnerable (for a while anyway.) But it's still fun, mainly because of the scoring. You can theoretically sit at the back, but I think the more fun way to play is to scoop up all the point items that fall and try to kill every wave for bonus points. In my view, avoiding enemies and letting them fly away is lame. Kill everything! Between the boppin' soundtrack, wave-based carnage, exploding points numbers and falling gems, score chasing is a blast.

I remember hearing about Raging Blasters back when it was a hype new shmup and I didn't know what the fuss was about. But nah, it's pretty fuckin' cool. Especially if your tastes bend towards caravan shmups. I'm tempted to pick up Moon Dancer now, especially since the same awesome dude did the music for that one.
I like Raging Blasters, but it is too easy to a fault, I think. I think 1CC'd it on my second credit ever? The PC Engine games it was inspired by were difficult enough to have some staying power, ya know? That console difficulty sweet spot.

The best games don't all need tons of hours of practice to clear, but I need at least some repetition to remember the game.
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XoPachi
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by XoPachi »

To Far Away Times wrote:
I like Raging Blasters, but it is too easy to a fault, I think. I think 1CC'd it on my second credit ever? The PC Engine games it was inspired by were difficult enough to have some staying power, ya know? That console difficulty sweet spot.

The best games don't all need tons of hours of practice to clear, but I need at least some repetition to remember the game.
Oh boy...
Careful that the wrong people don't see you say that about a new STG. :roll:
I have this one added on my Switch wishlist. Does it have any neat signature gameplay elements that are fun? I've actually never looked at it beyond store pages.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sima Tuna »

XoPachi wrote:
To Far Away Times wrote:
I like Raging Blasters, but it is too easy to a fault, I think. I think 1CC'd it on my second credit ever? The PC Engine games it was inspired by were difficult enough to have some staying power, ya know? That console difficulty sweet spot.

The best games don't all need tons of hours of practice to clear, but I need at least some repetition to remember the game.
Oh boy...
Careful that the wrong people don't see you say that about a new STG. :roll:
I have this one added on my Switch wishlist. Does it have any neat signature gameplay elements that are fun? I've actually never looked at it beyond store pages.
There's no bomb. You switch shot types with the two buttons. One shot fires six lines straight ahead. The other shot splits those same number of shot lines into a five-way spread shot pattern like the star soldier games have. Additionally, you have a sub shot which fires automatically when either of the main shots are blasting away. What the sub shot does depends on which power-up you've grabbed. The shot types are inspired by other Compile/Hudson Soft games. So you have the napalm, piercing laser, spinning orb o' protection and so on.

I kinda figured veterans on the shmups forum would think Raging Blasters is too easy. I get it. I'm not good at shmups, so an easy game to me still has longevity. The game has three difficulties and I guess if you can clear Expert with ease then the game will lack staying power for you too. But I still think the audio-visual presentation (of the upgraded version) is fantastic and gameplay is solid as hell. Destroying waves of enemies triggers gem explosions for bonus score and you're encouraged to go nuts chain-murdering every wave for max score.
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Marc
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Marc »

I picked up that EDF shooter. 'It's less than the price of a pint', thought I. 'How bad can it be?'. Oh dear. This shit makes Sine Mora and 1942 Joint Strike look good.
XBL & Switch: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell
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To Far Away Times
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by To Far Away Times »

XoPachi wrote:
To Far Away Times wrote:
I like Raging Blasters, but it is too easy to a fault, I think. I think 1CC'd it on my second credit ever? The PC Engine games it was inspired by were difficult enough to have some staying power, ya know? That console difficulty sweet spot.

The best games don't all need tons of hours of practice to clear, but I need at least some repetition to remember the game.
Oh boy...
Careful that the wrong people don't see you say that about a new STG. :roll:
I have this one added on my Switch wishlist. Does it have any neat signature gameplay elements that are fun? I've actually never looked at it beyond store pages.
Raging Blasters is a tribute game of sorts, where adhering to an older, defunct style is part of the appeal. It's kinda got the same spirit as games like GG Aleste 3, Space Megaforce/Super Aleste, Blazing Lazers, Solider Blade, Spriggan, MUSHA, Zanac, games like that. All of which are also worth a look if you like what you see with Raging Blasters.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

While I'm waiting for Star Parodier to get here, I decided to take a shot at getting through Dragon Spirit on the PC Engine.

I quite like this game, it's got a chill pace and some fantastic melodies that really make great use of the unusual harmonics the PCE's wavetable sound hardware can do. It's clearly Namco's spiritual successor to Xevious (a glaringly obvious comparison I have somehow never read anyone make), but instantly way better because it gives you a three-headed fire breathing dragon to attack things with, instead of attacking you instead with an 8 second loop of bleeps (or are those doots?) for the entirety of the game.

But man, it's got some rough edges too. Like some of the art. Namco, you've gotta be kidding me with this Atari 2600 background:

Image

"So let's make that the opening stage, to make the worst possible first impression. This is some master-level Sun Tzu reverse psychology, I'm telling you guys, this is a winner!"

Also, did your already large dragon really need a hit box literally bigger than the mountains in this game? I've had multiple "wait, did anything actually hit me?" deaths so far, there is little micro-dodging to be had here. So many of the patterns don't even give you gaps wide enough to squeeze through if you're powered up with three heads.

But still, it's slow moving and deliberate enough that it seems like the kind of thing that should be conquerable almost entirely through routing.
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BIL
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by BIL »

Sengoku Strider wrote:It's clearly Namco's spiritual successor to Xevious (a glaringly obvious comparison I have somehow never read anyone make)
It happens! I wish I had a ham sammich for every time someone here went "Raaagh! Image Imma invent time travel then shove Endo in front of a shinkansen to save humanity from Xevious ground shot!" It's almost as infamous as Twinbee, but nobody talks about its ground shot, they're too busy threatening to T-800 Konami for its bell juggling. Image
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Well hey, I never said nobody else had ever said it, just that I'd never come across it. I don't get the ground targets being the thing that people don't like. It's what eventually evolved into the Layer Section mechanics everyone worships. Off the top of my head, Xevious' two-tier design might be the birth of routing in shmups.
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BIL
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by BIL »

Xevious is probably the most influential STG there is, I think even the most Endophobic of genre enthusiasts would acknowledge. Its ground bomb vs Rayforce's... I think it's both a tactile/aesthetic and mechanical distinction. Tying up a tank phalanx while weaving through their AA fire, then obliterating them all in an Itanoesque hellstorm is always going to light up more reward centers than individual plinks, and you get exponentially more score for your derring-do, too.

I don't hate the ground shot personally, it fits the austerity of the surrounding game. It'd ruin something like Kyuukyoku Tiger or Raiden, which are all about shredding through screenloads of heavy artillery, but then so would imposing Galaxian's shot limits. Dragon Spirit/Saber, A-JAX, and Task Force Harrier are good examples of later Xeviousesques that pair relatively busy playfields with appropriately more outre ground firepower.
Last edited by BIL on Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steven
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Steven »

It's either Xevious or Space Invaders.
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BIL
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by BIL »

^ Indeed - going further back than those two probably involves Spacewar itself. There's a bunch of stuff from the 70s to consider, some by Nishikado himself, but SI is the Black Sabbath of its field; first one where you can fire it up and everyone will instantly recognise it as the archetypal STG. Xevious is like Motorhead or Priest, a marginally younger innovator that massively expanded the new paradigm. (as always with genre archaeology, there are plenty of competing candidates... Blue Cheer/Gun Fight, Phoenix/Thin Lizzy, Star Force/Venom, et al Image)

Times like this I wish that old dafty Drum hadn't gone and Garegga'd himself on BLOODF's invincible iron godhead. He loves talking about this stuff. Anyway wtb ACA Space Invaders, get on it Hamster pls. :cool:
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XoPachi
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by XoPachi »

Tried Natsuki Chronicles hard mode for the first time
Fucking ruthless.
I could only get up to stage 6 before I just got deleted and you can probably guess correctly exactly which part I was blown out of the sky. And even the trek to just stage 6 was a struggle.
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To Far Away Times
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by To Far Away Times »

Sengoku Strider wrote:While I'm waiting for Star Parodier to get here, I decided to take a shot at getting through Dragon Spirit on the PC Engine.

I quite like this game, it's got a chill pace and some fantastic melodies that really make great use of the unusual harmonics the PCE's wavetable sound hardware can do. It's clearly Namco's spiritual successor to Xevious (a glaringly obvious comparison I have somehow never read anyone make), but instantly way better because it gives you a three-headed fire breathing dragon to attack things with, instead of attacking you instead with an 8 second loop of bleeps (or are those doots?) for the entirety of the game.

But man, it's got some rough edges too. Like some of the art. Namco, you've gotta be kidding me with this Atari 2600 background:
There's times when Dragon Spirit seems like this really chill shmup with cool art and an interesting laid back pace and other times where it looks like a kusoge. I still need to sit down and play it for more than a casual credit or two.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Leandro »

I'm playing Infinos Gaiden. Struggling to get that 1cc. Love the soundtrack though
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Yeah, Dragon Spirit might be a long term project.

I flipped over to Gate of Thunder. I used to have this on Wii back in the day, but at the time I had no experience with the Thunder Force series. I know Hudson poached (rescued?) the lead designer & programmer of the TF series but holy crap, they could've just called this Thunder Force 3.5 and nobody but Technosoft's lawyers would've batted an eyelash. The weapons, weapon system, manual speed control, look and vibe are all either identical or darn close.

The one real innovation is how it handles the options - instead of the rotating claw (I refuse to say craw), it gives you static options that switch to backward fire with a double tap of the fire button. This is implemented really well, and gives the player a lot to do in later levels managing the focus of their fire and controlling the playfield. Though I do kind of want to know how many people back in the day bought this game, never switched off auto fire and couldn't figure out why it was so hard.

Speaking of hard, this is one game that really does not seem to be, at least on normal. It barely punches back until stage 4. I remember it being way tougher on Wii, but I don't know if that was because of laggy emulation, the difficulty being raised on the North American ROM, or me just being trash at shooters at the time. I will say that hard seems more like the "proper" difficulty. The fact that higher difficulty levels increase the number of enemies on screen instead of just making enemies tankier is a big part of this, like you're not really seeing what this beast can do unless you jack things up.

Although devil difficulty just felt like getting gang-rushed at every turn. I wonder if that was the inspiration for the heavily-Thunder-influenced Devil Engine's name?
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To Far Away Times
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by To Far Away Times »

Gate of Thunder is a good time. One of the best 16 bit shmups. I've haven't played it in atleast a decade, but at I remember it being my favorite PC Engine shmup. I imagine that would still hold true today. Either that or Sapphire.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

It kicks ass for sure, and discovering a secret 4th (5th if you count AC?) 16-bit Thunder Force game is quite a pleasant surprise.

But yeah, pretty easy on normal for sure. I've already just beaten it, after only playing since last night I was already able to reach the final stage without continuing, then had burn a few credits learning my way through it. The 1CC shouldn't be too far off at all.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Sima Tuna »

Moon Dancer. Not sure if I like it. Raging Blasters was more my cup of tea. This one feels rather unbalanced. Locking onto every enemy increases your score but requires you play way more unsafe, to the point it feels not worth doing. The game uses checkpoints so failure is punished brutally. I didn't mind trying to chain kill every enemy in Raging Blasters because the difficulty was lenient enough to allow some risk (and pay it off with extra extends.) But when getting clipped once sends you back to the last check point, powers you down and resets you back to the default lock-on laser, it's kind of hard to justify playing any other way than hiding in the corner.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by XoPachi »

Playing Ibara pretending I'll ever understand how to play this game and I forgot how much I love the announcer.
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