Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by gameoverDude »

Flying Shark - 801140 pts, 1-ALL, reached area 138 (in stage 2-3).

To hell with the bomb bonus. 3000 a piece, that's IT? Whatever. The help that your bombs give you against high-HP large enemies is more important than that, especially in stages 4 & 5. I'll usually hit those large rail armors with 2 bombs to kill them faster. When you're at stage 5's large bomber, it's not so bad by itself- but when the zako come out to support it, hopefully you've got one or two. Almost tempted to try again sometime for a 2-ALL.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by null1024 »

Touhou 16.5: Violet Detector [PC].
hot and fresh, right off the presses

It's... weird. I dunno how well these mechanics go together. It's like StB, but you have to actually kill the boss, and you get a teleport [double-tap focus]. It's fun, at least. Kinda wish I had my headphones nearby so I could hear the music.
I've got the Friday stages and it's too early in the morning for me to deal with Saturday. The first [? it's the only one that shows up right now, probably because I need to finish Friday] stage of Saturday isn't too hard, but it's nearly 3am and my motor skills aren't going to be amazing at this hour, so I keep screwing it up
some of the Friday stages are kinda obnoxious too, and will certainly continue to piss me off at a reasonable hour :lol:

also, I keep dying occasionally for seemingly no reason after taking photos even though I'm almost certain I was in the shot and all the bullets immediately next to me should have been captured by it
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Durandal »

null1024 wrote:double-tap dodge
this is the absolute fucking worst
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by null1024 »

Durandal wrote:
null1024 wrote:double-tap dodge
this is the absolute fucking worst
I have absolutely no fucking idea why it's not just on C.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by trap15 »

Played some Illvelo for ostensibly the first time last night. Surprisingly a lot of fun, the large amount of enemies combined with no death on collision makes everything feel really alive and active without it being dangerous. The score attack mini-stages are a lot of fun and a very interesting take on the Compile style. The lack of any real contrast anywhere makes it a bit of a visual clusterfuck, but I didn't mind it too much after a while. I will have to play it more.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by poptart »

trap15 wrote:Played some Illvelo for ostensibly the first time last night. Surprisingly a lot of fun
Why surprising? Milestone games are extremely fun for anyone who bothers to try something different and isn't in the dad "everything must look like/play like cave" club. Karous and radirgy are top tier fun aswell.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by trap15 »

Because every time I look at any of their stuff I'm put off by how busy and low contrast everything looks. The surprise is that they made it manageable and fun despite that.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by poptart »

trap15 wrote:Because every time I look at any of their stuff I'm put off by how busy and low contrast everything looks. The surprise is that they made it manageable and fun despite that.
fair enough.. busy i can kinda see but not the contrast, probs just eye sight differences though.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by M.Knight »

wgogh : It's definitely possible that the impression also comes from the first stages. They indeed aren't too difficult, and the denser patterns really start in the later stages. In all games, the first two stages are not too hard to survive through if you aren't taking lots of risks to score, the third stage's difficulty mostly comes from the walls and not the bullets themselves, and the last two stages are where the bullet patterns get tricky.

The original Shiki has two consecutives mid-bosses for each stage, which boosts the difficult a bit compared to the same spots in the following games.
Another factor that can wildly affect the difficulty is the character choice. Shiki 1 has no bullet cancelling character, whereas the following games do, and on top of that some of the Shiki 1 characters such as Kim become easier to use in the following iterations.

In any case, getting to 4-1 is pretty good. :) Make sure to use the stage select mode as much as possible to practice, it's really useful. I don't think I would have gotten the clear as quickly as I did otherwise.

And, what are the issues with the PS2 version? I know about the "localization" hack job, but wasn't aware that even the original JP version had some odd quirks.

-----

trap15 : Niiice! Illvelo is really fun, I'm glad you tried it out.

Bullet visibility has never been a problem for me in Milestone games. It never even crossed my mind actually, though I can see your point with the lack of contrast. You play Garegga anyway, so I imagine this is nothing compared to it. :mrgreen:
I also noticed the Compile influence with the Illvelo bonus stages, and it works really well here! Remember that nailing these bonus stages are the key to getting high scores.

If you have any questions about the game, just hit me up and I'll do my best to answer them! :D And if you need replays and references, there is a 9bil replay here, and I also have a few runs of mine with lower scores. My latest video is this one, with 7.3bil.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by wgogh »

M.Knight wrote:wgogh : It's definitely possible that the impression also comes from the first stages. They indeed aren't too difficult, and the denser patterns really start in the later stages. In all games, the first two stages are not too hard to survive through if you aren't taking lots of risks to score, the third stage's difficulty mostly comes from the walls and not the bullets themselves, and the last two stages are where the bullet patterns get tricky.

The original Shiki has two consecutives mid-bosses for each stage, which boosts the difficult a bit compared to the same spots in the following games.
Another factor that can wildly affect the difficulty is the character choice. Shiki 1 has no bullet cancelling character, whereas the following games do, and on top of that some of the Shiki 1 characters such as Kim become easier to use in the following iterations.

In any case, getting to 4-1 is pretty good. :) Make sure to use the stage select mode as much as possible to practice, it's really useful. I don't think I would have gotten the clear as quickly as I did otherwise.

And, what are the issues with the PS2 version? I know about the "localization" hack job, but wasn't aware that even the original JP version had some odd quirks.
Talking about the Playstation 2 version, the original japanese version is nothing comparable to THAT. You have your regular TATE mode, story, pratice and it's totally playable. That bad part seems to be the result of a port; blurry image that results in some sort of waterbrush effect. Also, the image is reduced to a small box while in TATE mode (not that important with your tv is not already 14'' like mine). The screen is very similar to Gunbird for ps2. That is the reason Im not a fan of the ps2 version, even the jp one. Now, I also read that the port has some inaccuracy, but I wont make statements that I can't really confirm, specially for something negative. After all, I am sure that very few have acess to the arcade version. Another thing to be taken into consideration is that the Playstation 2 version is not the revised version of the game, something that has to be read about to be aware of the possible implications. Anyway, I hope I'm not coming out as negative, but Shiki 1 definetly has its problems (When they made the Shiki 2 port, the screen got much better, thankfully).

Thank you, M.Knight. But, as you can probably guess, 4-1 is not enough! The walls on both Shiki 1 and 2 are not the hard part for me, and I tend to die on the dense bullet patterns. 4-1 is a mess, not an organized dense pattern like in some danmakus, some CAVE stages maybe. I don't know what can I do to have a more consistent if not only by improving my reflexes. I may get used to it by repetition, but I might be missing something... Finally, I feel a sudden desire to get into Dragon Blaze, but I can't just drop Shikigami. If I start dropping games like this...
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by M.Knight »

Thanks for the small breakdown of the PS2 port flaws! That waterbrush-like effect can be a bit annoying, especially when you've just played some other games with crisp visuals beforehand.

Stage 4-1 is a bit chaotic, but not that much I think. You can definitely do it with some practice! :) There are two types of enemies : the planes with their slow spread shots, as well as the humanoid enemies firing shots that mainly move downwards. There is some chaos to those bullets' movements but the density is not that huge. Thanks to Kuga's shikigami, you can also stay near the bottom of the screen to give you more time to process the patterns. The thing to realize though, is that right before the mid-boss, the humanoid baddies will fire aimed shots instead. If you see them coming inidivually from the sides at the top of the screen, that's your cue. During that part, slow bullet herding should do the trick.

And the 4-1 mid-boss itself can be quickly and safely defeated once you get inside it as it starts to coil its body. Damaging it beforehand is also a good thing obviously.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by wgogh »

You are totaly right, I was able to get better at it today after finding a spot. Still think that 4-2 is easier than 4-1, but I'm getting close to the part where the real game begins. I still have to keep praticing 3-3, that guy is trouble.

I didn't work on it very much but, any advice for 4-3!?
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by gameoverDude »

BioMetal (SFC) - The Japanese version's soundtrack by Yoshio Nagashima is much better than the SNES one's not bad renditions of 2 Unlimited music.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by crazyrexz »

hello fellas, i want to play hyper duel on saturn, is really true the saturn version is better than arcade?
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by BIL »

A bit better. Biggest improvement is an aim lock function for the mech, allowing you to keep a bead on targets while dodging and just be more aggressive in general. You can even map it to the same button as [mech fire], keeping it a two-button game. It also adjusts a few stage/boss things... I know for sure the third boss's spread fire is no longer destructible, so you need to actually evade it. It's audiovisually a bit spruced up too, more vivid colours, much stronger character art, and Tsukumo arranged his soundtrack.

Plus the arcade version is on the disc too, AFAIK in good form, so there's always that if the Saturn arrangement doesn't work for you.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by M.Knight »

wgogh : Good job on the 4-1!
One of the big difficult things in 4-3, on top of the increased bullet count, is how all the red long bullets look similar yet behave in different ways. Some enemies will fire circle spreads, others will fire them straight downards, and later on some will fire aimed long red bullets at you.

The first part with most of those shot types is complicated, and I bomb it on the replay because I felt trapped. I would say the sides are a safer place here because the spread shots from both sides' ennemies can overlap in the middle, making it more difficult to dodge there.

Starting the wave with enemies firing aimed shots at you on one of the sides is also safer. This way, you can stream/herd the entirety of aimed bullets they fire in one left-to-right or right-to-left movement, without having to go back the other way and risk dying to the cloud of slow bullets.

The end gets easier for some reason. You have enemies alternatively firing on a specific side, and it's easier to dodge the bullets if you are on the opposite side, to let them space apart. And then you have a very easy wave with only one or two enemies firing a circle spread, that one shouldn't be a problem.

I am not 100% sure about this as I haven't tested it in ages, but I think you can slow down the game a bit more by using the red shot instead of the shikigami. If that works as I think it does, that can be helpful for survival but I wouldn't recommend that if you need additionnal extends. On the other hand, there shouldn't be that much of a penalty for using that against bosses. It's super useful against the 5-2 boss for example.

Oh, and if you have issues with the 3-3 boss fight, remember that you can use his electric field against him. I graze it to have a continuous red shot, which makes quick work of him. When he spawns the clone helpers, you can bomb them as they make it very easy to lose a life otherwise. Luckily, Kuga's bomb radius and the helpers' position mean you can stay on top of the boss while bombing it to inflict lots of damage on him and kill the two helpers at the same time. Only the final phase is a bit difficult as bullets come from all directions. My advice is to stay away from the boss. What I do is moving in a circle within the electric field in the same direction as the boss but with a 180° delay.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Kollision »

crazyrexz wrote:hello fellas, i want to play hyper duel on saturn, is really true the saturn version is better than arcade?
it's got two modes: Arcade and Saturn.

Arcade is supposed to be arcade-perfect, but I read about someone (was it pegboy?) going in full details about it and actually figuring out the scoring system is nothing like the arcade's; it plays just like it though.

Saturn mode is a graphically enhanced version that's exclusive to the console.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by BIL »

Kollision wrote:Arcade is supposed to be arcade-perfect, but I read about someone (was it pegboy?) going in full details about it and actually figuring out the scoring system is nothing like the arcade's; it plays just like it though.
I remember pegboy saying that about Thunder Force AC (on TF Gold Pack 2). I don't remember him talking about Saturn Hyper Duel's arcade mode, though? Still, it's enough to make me add an "AFAIK" to my post. Not an expert on PCB or Saturn AC mode scoring.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Despatche »

Would be nice to have a definitive answer about that. I only ever heard that about TF Gold though.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Kollision »

BIL wrote:
Kollision wrote:Arcade is supposed to be arcade-perfect, but I read about someone (was it pegboy?) going in full details about it and actually figuring out the scoring system is nothing like the arcade's; it plays just like it though.
I remember pegboy saying that about Thunder Force AC (on TF Gold Pack 2). I don't remember him talking about Saturn Hyper Duel's arcade mode, though? Still, it's enough to make me add an "AFAIK" to my post. Not an expert on PCB or Saturn AC mode scoring.
Oh yes that could be it then, sorry for the confusion
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by crazyrexz »

BIL wrote:A bit better. Biggest improvement is an aim lock function for the mech, allowing you to keep a bead on targets while dodging and just be more aggressive in general. You can even map it to the same button as [mech fire], keeping it a two-button game. It also adjusts a few stage/boss things... I know for sure the third boss's spread fire is no longer destructible, so you need to actually evade it. It's audiovisually a bit spruced up too, more vivid colours, much stronger character art, and Tsukumo arranged his soundtrack.

Plus the arcade version is on the disc too, AFAIK in good form, so there's always that if the Saturn arrangement doesn't work for you.
will play in saturn , thanks for info mate
Kollision wrote:
crazyrexz wrote:hello fellas, i want to play hyper duel on saturn, is really true the saturn version is better than arcade?
it's got two modes: Arcade and Saturn.

Arcade is supposed to be arcade-perfect, but I read about someone (was it pegboy?) going in full details about it and actually figuring out the scoring system is nothing like the arcade's; it plays just like it though.

Saturn mode is a graphically enhanced version that's exclusive to the console.
will go for saturn, thanks mate
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by wgogh »

M.Knight wrote:wgogh : Good job on the 4-1!
One of the big difficult things in 4-3, on top of the increased bullet count, is how all the red long bullets look similar yet behave in different ways. Some enemies will fire circle spreads, others will fire them straight downards, and later on some will fire aimed long red bullets at you.

The first part with most of those shot types is complicated, and I bomb it on the replay because I felt trapped. I would say the sides are a safer place here because the spread shots from both sides' ennemies can overlap in the middle, making it more difficult to dodge there.

Starting the wave with enemies firing aimed shots at you on one of the sides is also safer. This way, you can stream/herd the entirety of aimed bullets they fire in one left-to-right or right-to-left movement, without having to go back the other way and risk dying to the cloud of slow bullets.

The end gets easier for some reason. You have enemies alternatively firing on a specific side, and it's easier to dodge the bullets if you are on the opposite side, to let them space apart. And then you have a very easy wave with only one or two enemies firing a circle spread, that one shouldn't be a problem.

I am not 100% sure about this as I haven't tested it in ages, but I think you can slow down the game a bit more by using the red shot instead of the shikigami. If that works as I think it does, that can be helpful for survival but I wouldn't recommend that if you need additionnal extends. On the other hand, there shouldn't be that much of a penalty for using that against bosses. It's super useful against the 5-2 boss for example.

Oh, and if you have issues with the 3-3 boss fight, remember that you can use his electric field against him. I graze it to have a continuous red shot, which makes quick work of him. When he spawns the clone helpers, you can bomb them as they make it very easy to lose a life otherwise. Luckily, Kuga's bomb radius and the helpers' position mean you can stay on top of the boss while bombing it to inflict lots of damage on him and kill the two helpers at the same time. Only the final phase is a bit difficult as bullets come from all directions. My advice is to stay away from the boss. What I do is moving in a circle within the electric field in the same direction as the boss but with a 180° delay.
Thanks for the help. I'm currently working on my score, trying to get that second extend before I'm dead. Now, one really cool thing about this game is that high score at the pratice mode, i wish more games had that. After some work at the first stages, I'm able to get the first extend at 2-2. I can get to 5-1, but takes some bombs and I'm not consistent at it. I'll probably be working on the later stages and Shoujo's first form for a while. When (if) I clear it, I'll let you guys know.
I found no info about the characters alternate colors, so Im guessing it doesnt make any difference..
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Kiken »

Shikigami 1 also requires powering up the player shot, which the sequels did away with.

Anyhow, I recently acquired a complete AES cart of Viewpoint. Originally, I had never seen past stage 3 when playing on Neo-CD, but I'm now getting to stage 4 on a single credit fairly regularly. I really don't know if an SCC is on the table with this game, but I'm going to steadily chip away at it.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Square_Air »

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Just cleared Gulf War II. My third eye is open and my self actualization is complete. Gulf War 2 has brought me to nirvana and I no longer have anything to be afraid of. I never need to play another game ever again as I am now certain that Gulf War II radiates the most exquisite tranquility in existence. Truly a majestic work of art that will last for thousands of years.
trap15 wrote:Tatsujin's first stage is easily one of the worst STG stages of all time in my opinion, for all the reasons M.Knight says. There is no other Toaplan game that is so immediately off-putting with its stage design. You cannot say this is the same style as Hishouzame or even Kyuukyoku Tiger, those games give you a feel of progression and enemy patterns that are at least more interesting and less severely copy-pasted.

I do feel like Tatsujin gets slightly better after stage 1, but I don't care because I never in my life want to play that first stage ever again.
While I agree that Tatsujin has a lackluster first stage and an unfortunately barren and boring 25 second introduction, saying it's one of the worst stages ever seems pretty hyperbolic. It's not on the same level as something laughable like Sirius 7. I would argue that Tiger Heli's first stage is even more off-putting, but that's also due to the mechanics of the game, not just the stage design. It's definitely not the same style of design as Hishouzame or Kyukyoku Tiger, as the game focuses more on mini-bosses and unique challenges than a consistent flow. Certain sections in Tatsujin can be lacking (and deserve the criticism), but the creative peaks are more memorable and enjoyable to me than most of Hishouzame or Kyukyoku Tiger.

I don't have much of a problem with Hishouzame besides the fact that it's lacking in the enemy variety department since so much of the game is filled similar zako, with basic aimed shots, that are all dealt with almost exactly the same way. It's even simpler than Tiger Heli, even though the formations are more visually striking. The stage design is good though, so that coupled with the short length of the game makes my complaint relatively small. Kyukyoku Tiger brings more to the table in terms of enemy variety, but is bloated and didn't need to be 40+ minutes long. It has a slow start and takes a while to really get going, and the beginning of stage 2 in particular is almost on par with how boring the intro to stage 1 of Tatsujin is. It also doesn't help that the final boss is completely trivial with enough power, but hot garbage to try and recover on. Tatsujin's final boss is actually fun and engaging.

Tatsujin has its issues, but there are plenty of high points and notable design decisions. There are multiple unique/quality sections like the stage 2 exploding capsules (the same ones later used in Batrider) and rail tanks, the stage 3 "bomb alley", the majority of stage 5, etc. It has possibly the best recovery in any Toaplan game since you can "trade in" lives for a power up. The max speed (which you're encouraged to play at) is fast yet comfortable and allows for interesting aggressive maneuvers and macro dodges. Bombs are actually responsive and reliable for once in a Toaplan game, which complements the fast speeds and overwhelming zako swarms and asteroids. The game even gives you an incentive to speedkill as you can occasionally get extra enemies for doing so, though this feature is very underdeveloped.

On a lesser note, I also find the soundtracks to Kyukyoku Tiger and Hishouzame to be a little generic (excluding that wonderful stage 5 theme in Hishouzame) in comparison to Tatsujin's propulsive and exciting OST.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Klatrymadon »

Got to play some Esprade at the Heart of Gaming arcade in Croydon today. Sadly Ketsui and Progear were absent this time - anyone happen to know if they're gone for good or just loaned out somewhere?
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Kiken »

Finally got to stage 5 of Viewpoint for the first time in a single credit... and then got owned by the stage 4 boss's 4th form again during the boss rush. But, it's progress.
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Habanero »

I only just started getting into SHMUPs recently. Been playing Terra Feminarum, Ikaruga, 摩尼遊戯TOKOYO and Crimzon Clover. I also have Blue Revolver and Jamestown downloaded. I don't think I've seen TOKOYO mentioned anywhere, but it's a recent release. It seems like an obvious port of the 3DS version, though, so the screen is a bit small. It has a nice soundtrack. It's not yet translated. I considered working on it, but then the devs suggested on their Twitter that they're working on an English translation themselves. It's not too long, but it's based on the journey to Nirvana.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/756840/TOKOYO/
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Shepardus »

i-20000: Neat little game, its quality is a pleasant surprise to me. I posted more about it here.

Tatsujin Ou - Doing some savestate practice. While I actually like stages 4 and 5 despite how brutal the latter is, stage 6 is the biggest pile of flaming garbage I've ever played. The parts I hate the most in this game are the ones where you've got enemies flying around in all sorts of weird directions, making it hard to recover without them ramming into you. You've got some of that in stages 2 and 3 (the latter parts of each), but in stage 6 they're worse than ever and are spread through the entire stage. The enemies in this game are all absurdly durable, and that includes the popcorn enemies which take two or three shots to kill. In this stage they move around so quickly and in such odd directions that even at full power you can't trust your weapons to neutralize their threat. At base power it's pretty much futile - they'll just sail right through your shots, or somehow avoid all your movements and curve around to ram you from the side or from behind, and if on the next attempt you try to adjust your positioning they'll just change their path and hit you anyway. And the checkpoints are far enough apart that you can't even rely on bomb spam alone to limp from checkpoint to checkpoint. I still haven't managed to credit-feed through the entire stage from a stage 6 savestate without getting fed up and quitting.

Stages 4 and 5 are probably my favorite stages because they've got the least of this kind of crap - they're still difficult recoveries, but the enemies have more predictable movements and there's more of a focus on medium/large-size enemies, which is where I think the game shines. Stage 5 in particular has this dance of large and small(er) enemies that I really like. They've also got the best music. Stage 1 is fine too for the same reasons.

For all the flak the stage 3 boss gets, the stage 5 boss is even worse, because it's still ridiculously difficult and ridiculously durable but there isn't an easy timeout strategy this time. The stage 4 boss is also ridiculous but at least it goes down easily with a couple bombs. The reason you really need to conserve bombs for the first half of the game is to deal with stuff like this later on.
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NTSC-J: You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.
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Blinge
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Blinge »

Klatrymadon wrote:Got to play some Esprade at the Heart of Gaming arcade in Croydon today. Sadly Ketsui and Progear were absent this time - anyone happen to know if they're gone for good or just loaned out somewhere?
Oh snap. What fucker keeps putting esp rade back eh!?!

The actual thing Klatry is they have most game on there, it's not the actual board afaik.
(with the possible exception of progear)
Next time ask a staff member to switch it out for you, I doubt there'd be any objections as no one else there will be playing ;)
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Klatrymadon
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Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

Post by Klatrymadon »

Oh right, thanks for the tip! :D

Currently getting back into X-Multiply (Playstation Arcade Gears version), whose first loop I've cleared by the skin of my teeth. I thought muscle memory would get me through most of it, but I'd underestimated the last two stages, which can get pretty brutal. I struggle with Bykhee - if you don't nail the speedkill during the first phase things can go south quickly, and I still haven't figured out a consistent method or movement pattern for the second phase...
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