Raiden 2 "New" version PCB made in 1996 -- WTF!?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I do have a Seibu Kaihatsu/Fabtek USA Bios region 1993 produced Raiden II PCB but came across this really odd eBay auction for a "Raiden 2 'New' Version PCB" being sold by Bill Burger. Sure, I've bought some arcade Jamma PCBs from him in the past... ^_~

And what's so different about this "Raiden 2 'New' Version PCB" compared to a "normal" Raiden II PCB?

Bill goes on to say that he's never seen a Raiden II PCB like this one and says that it has a 1996 copyright date...WTF!?

Conventional wisdom says that two different Raiden II PCBs were manufactured: one with back-up battery installed & the other, didn't have such "back-up" battery installed for JPN/USA regions in 1993.

And if you notice in the JPEG of this odd-ball Raiden 2 'New' PCB, there's no "back-up" battery installed for saving of high scores upon being powered down for the night... ^_~

http://cgi.ebay.com/RAIDEN-2-NEW-JAMMA- ... dZViewItem

There's also another current eBay auction listing for a "Raiden DX 'New' Version PCB" (with 1996 copyright date) from Bill Burger as well..... ^_~

Some mighty odd Raiden 2 & Raiden DX PCBs (with the touted "New" version directly on the PCB itself) up for sale..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Leeloo Minaï]

When i see this auction, the first thing which comes to my mind is : bootleg.

The PCB has a too "simple" design to be a genuine Raiden 2, that would explain the lack of battery.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

So it's a "bootlegged" Raiden 2 PCB that was manufactured in 1996, right?

I'll stick with my USA region Fabtek produced Raiden II PCB for now..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Limbrooke]

It's no pirate, it's officially from Seibu.
What it consists of is change in difficulty and essentially the game working backwards, meaning from the normal Raiden 2 final stage is the first stage working towards the normal first stage as the final.
Anyone who got INH's The Aces High would've seen in the bonus content footage of Raiden 2 New which essentially depicts everything I've already described.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

That's definitely new Raiden II PCB news for me... ^_~

You learn something new everyday and this is one of them...

Thanks for the heads on this peciluar Raiden 2 'New" PCB, Limbrooke..... ^_~

Sounds different enough to warrant a purchase then... ^_~

And would the same thing apply to the Raiden DX 'New' PCB in terms of different stages placement and gameplay as well? Yeah, I've got a "normal" Fabtek produced Raiden DX PCB as well.....

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Limbrooke]

For the price you can't go wrong for another piece of Raiden canon.
Never heard of a Raiden DX New and I can't seem to locate the auction for it either.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Here it is:

Sorry, my mistake -- is referred to Raiden DX (with no "New" label but with 1996 copyright date imprinted on the PCB itself)...hmmm, is it an official Seibu produced one as well?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RAIDEN-DX-JAMMA-PCB ... dZViewItem

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Dave_K.]

Yep, the "New" pcb reprint for Raiden DX was in 96. Here is the poster.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-RAIDEN-FIG ... dZViewItem

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For Dave K.,

Thanks for info about the Raiden DX "New" PCB...and that's a cool Raiden DX "New 96" version poster. ^_~

So that makes for the original Raiden PCB series in cronological order (aside from the SP1 mobo series with Raiden Fighters and it's later sequels) goes like this:

Raiden PCB -- 1990

Raiden II PCB -- 1993

Raiden DX PCB -- 1994

Raiden II "New" version PCB -- 1996

Raiden DX "New" version PCB -- 1996

(And for completeness, listing of Viper Phase 1 games as well...)

Viper Phase 1 (SP1 cart) -- 1994

Viper Phase 1 "New Version" (SP1 cart) -- 1994

Viper Phase 1 U.S.A. (SP1 cart) -- 1995

Am I correct on this then?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[dpful]

I thought these were the re-releases of the games on the cheaper hardware. I don't know about the raiden II, but I had a raiden DX (can't remember if it said 'new' anywhere) that was a re-release and it was POOOOOOOR quality. Sound was a 10 second loop the whole game, graphics were poor contrast, and the sound was super fuzzy.

Could that be what these games are also? Kind of like the raiden fighter jet 2000 boards they also made?

p.s. don't buy if they are.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For dpful,

Sorry to hear that your Raiden DX "New 96" version PCB was of such poor quality. It would seem that it would be in the best interest to get the original released 1993 & 1994 versions of Raiden II & Raiden DX PCBs if that's the case here..... ^_~

And do you still have your Raiden DX "New 96" PCB (or did you play "hot potato" with it and got rid of it quickly)? ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

I found a video of this new version of Raiden 2. It has to be the new version because you can clearly see some large enemy tanks in the first level, which are not in the original 1993 version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIdm5-Kj ... re=related

[Ed Oscuro]

I did a search for Raiden DX New and immediately found this: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/archive ... 01753.html

Wouldn't be the first time Seibu was known to do this (i.e. the Raiden Fighters 2000 release).

[saucykobold]

I found a video of this new version of Raiden 2. It has to be the new version because you can clearly see some large enemy tanks in the first level, which are not in the original 1993 version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIdm5-Kj ... re=related

The version in that video actually came out in 1993, some time before the much more common version that's the basis for all the home ports. Based on what I've read, this older version has some different enemy placements, is easier all around, and lacks Micluses. Raiden II New came a few years later. It's an oddball release that has you starting in level five and then going backwards to the first stage, with the difficulty adjusted accordingly.

[Ed Oscuro]

The sound in that video didn't seem to be a short loop like the 2000 releases.

Wow, whenever MAME gets the varieties of Raiden 2 / DX working properly, there will be some cherries a' poppin'. Better git em rarities now!

Edit: Does anybody have a comprehensive (or at least partial) guide to Raiden 2 / DX differences / board descriptions, and so on? Been watching saucykobold's highly entertaining DX replay at Youtube, recorded from the PSX version of DX.

[IseeThings]

There are 1996 rereleases of both Zero Team and Raiden 2 / DX

New Zero Team has the original sound system intact.
New Raiden 2 / DX (game depends on Factory Programmed EEPROM setting) has the sound system replaced by (crappy) OKI sample playback chips.

The boards use revised (well redone) protection based around a SEI333 chip, although it probably mimics the original somewhat.

There are also 2000 rereleases of Both Zero Team, Raiden 2.

Zero Team 2000 is a slightly revised version of the New Zero Team Board
Raiden 2 2000 is (probably) a slightly revised version of the New R2 / DX board (we haven't sourced / dumped one of these, but numerous people have seen it) I don't know if this one also includes an RDX2000 like the New versions did.

They retain the same protection from the previous board update

There are also at least '2000' re-release versions of Raiden Fighters 2 + Raiden Fighters Jet (I don't know if there is a plain Raiden Fighters 2000)

The Raiden Fighters 2/Jet 2000 board, is a single system SPI board, again with revised (crappy) sound system. A similar board was also used for some Mahjong games, it's clearly meant to be a cheaper production.

There were also some other single board SPI re-releases which kept the sound system intact (Raiden Fighters 2.1, and an RFJet with 1998-99 copyright and everything unlocked from the start)

To the best of my knowledge all are original Seibu productions, and have the original protections / encryptions* intact, and use original Seibu parts.
* I don't think New Zero Team has the suicide problem of the original board tho where they use a battery to back up the sprite decryption keys, although the New R2/DX does have a problem whereby is your eeprom is erased it becomes stuck as an R2 even if it was a DX before (or reverse, can't remember)

[Ed Oscuro]

Thanks for the comprehensive hardware description...watch out for OKI chips then.

I'm still looking for more information on the stage order and releases but that is most of the interesting information.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I've got an single layer SP1 Raiden Fighters Jet 2000 PCB (China region variant release) with the crappy short BGM loops. It's a known fact that there's a single layer RFJ PCB release with the proper "good" Yamaha sound chip on-board to consider as well (as opposed to some single layer RFJ 2000 PCBs using the lower quality Oki sound chip instead to save money during PCB production runs back in the day). I recall shmupper hd recently sold a single layer RFJ PCB with the obligatory Yamaha chip on-board in the Trading section.

I'd rather go with a dedicated SP1 motheboard and dedicated SP1 cartridge of RFJ setup for the cool stereo output indeed. Can't do that with a SP1 single layer setup of RFJ PCB nor RFJ 2000 PCB either (as their both mono output at best).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ed Oscuro]

The Raiden Fighters series releases are fairly well-known, but how about the Raiden 2 / DX releases? Those are less well documented.

[BPzeBanshee]

I swear I've seen a Raiden Fighters 2 board that was marked as 'Raiden Fighters 2000' but it was a VERY long time ago and I'm probably not remembering it right.

[robotype]

If someone is interested I have a raiden II new version I would sell for euro 58 shipped in europe

[Ed Oscuro]

If someone is interested I have a raiden II new version I would sell for euro 58 shipped in europe

Is this a type with sound intact? (I just bought a Raiden II fairly cheaply, would be interesting to compare notes though.)

[robotype]

If someone is interested I have a raiden II new version I would sell for euro 58 shipped in europe

Is this a type with sound intact? (I just bought a Raiden II fairly cheaply, would be interesting to compare notes though.)

no, part of the music is missing...I had a raiden dx and it was the same

[Ed Oscuro]

1996 release, then. Hmm.

[IseeThings]

Yeah New R2/New DX is the same board / same roms, just a bit in the EEPROM (which I don't think you can change) which determines what game it is.

Really you shouldn't be looking for anywhere near regular R2 prices for it, it's bootleg quality in every way apart from not being a bootleg. Most bootlegs do exactly the same thing to complex sound systems as was done with the New R2 boards, it's horrible.

see this hilariously bad Sexy Parodius bootleg for example
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sh ... ber=288227

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Just how many different variants of Raiden II and DX are there exactly?, Because today I went to the arcade at the Santa Monica Pier, and I played Raiden II, but it was noticeably easier with much slower bullet speeds and it had very different enemy placements, enemies added, etc., just like the large tanks in the first level in the video I linked to. The game was also very unusually generous by always giving me a lot of bomb items.The high score tables showed the Raiden Mk-II fighter with a black background, instead of the usual background of the fighter ascending over the mountains. I'm not sure if it's the version saucykobold was referring to, because he said it lacks micluses, and when I played there were micluses. I looked at the date on the version I played, and it said 1993, so that's why I'm curious to see all of the different versions of Raiden II/DX and see how the gameplay is different.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Nobody knows. The number of pointless hardware revisions they made truly boggles the mind. What if that energy would have been put into, I don't know, programming new frigging games instead... Honestly I don't think any other games in the history of the world went through as many pointless hardware revisions as Raiden 2 hardware games, or rather 1990s Seibu games in general. They made like 5 games and 25 different hardwares!

[trap15]

Raiden II in particular had like 10 software revisions too... Who knows which one you were playing

[BPzeBanshee]

This is also assuming default dipswitch settings.

Did Raiden II have Easy/Normal/Hard settings? If so, that's at least 27 possible variants of gameplay you could be looking at.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

According to this, here are the dipswitch settings. http://www.arcade-museum.com/dipswitch- ... /9249.html
I don't know if the version I was playing was on default difficulty, but it was much easier than the more common version is. Maybe someday we'll find out in MAME, if the protection is ever broken.