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CMoon
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Post by CMoon »

it290 wrote:Huh? Space Harrier, Starfox, and Panzer Dragoon all have bullet dodging.
Not to be silly, but I never would have called space harrier a rail shmup--but you are right about panzer dragoon (though it still feels limited). I'll conceed on rail shooters for the time being, though only because I am not sure we entirely agree on what a rail shmup is.) Rez is definitely very different than space harrier. Still I'm not sure I really consider any of them to be border liners (IE 'almost shmups')--the play mechanics are still too different to me,

Light gun games however still aren't even remotely like shmups, and this is why I would change borderliners to be games that are only one or two steps removed from shmups (IE run n' guns and a few others...)
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marril159
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Post by marril159 »

BulletMagnet wrote:
"Command Motion" (Specific button commands needed to perform certain feats, such as the special shots in Cotton 2/Boomerang and the "macros" needed to reveal the pigs in Batsugun.)
I've also seen these referred to as "Twiddle commands", though the term seems to be more infrequent than I thought...
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Post by Zach Keene »

Mark Green's Tyrian FAQ is the only place I've heard that one...
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Ganelon
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Post by Ganelon »

Finally read through that list again. Great editing work.

Just some thoughts: maybe you should mention that some slowdown is intentional (as opposed to being a hardware limitation) to help the player survive otherwise very difficult situations. Also, that suicide bullets are generally found in loops after the first.
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Post by Nemo »

Suggestions:

Loop - Once the game starts over again after the default round is completed, usually adding increased difficulty.

Felt it necessary to add since it irks me when people refer to the initial round as the first loop, which it isn't.
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MASTER SATAN
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Post by MASTER SATAN »

I would think slowdown is never intentional by the developers. But it does indeed help (Last Resort).
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Ganelon
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Post by Ganelon »

No, some slowdown is definitely intentional. Try some R-Type games (Final for sure) in harder difficulties and you'll notice some of its trademark slowdown on default or easy difficulty disappears. Couldn't be more obvious than that.
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Post by llaoyllakcuf »

I would think slowdown is never intentional by the developers.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Zach Keene wrote:R-Type Final does indeed use the term "loop" in-game to refer to how many levels of power a ship's wave cannon can charge up. That said, I can't recall seeing anyone else follow suit.
Hmm...not sure what to do with this one. I'm trying to focus on semi-universal shmup terms here (as in, I'm not including series-specific stuff like "Force Pod," or "Moai," or "Reflect Barrier"), and if "loop" isn't used this way outside of R-Type I'm not sure whether or not to include it...there are few games as it is where your charge shot can go more than one level, and in most of those games it's just called a "level," at least that I recall. Sort of in limbo here...
marril159 wrote:I've also seen these referred to as "Twiddle commands", though the term seems to be more infrequent than I thought...
Any other thoughts on this one? Also, is "macro" a synonym for "command motion," or is it technically something different?
Ganelon wrote:Just some thoughts: maybe you should mention that some slowdown is intentional (as opposed to being a hardware limitation) to help the player survive otherwise very difficult situations.
Sounds reasonable, methinks I'll amend that one.
Also, that suicide bullets are generally found in loops after the first.
I know that this is the case in Batsugun, off the top of my head, are there other games in which similar circumstances abound? I know that in Super Aleste higher difficulty levels include suicide bullets, but that's found right in the options menu, it's not really a "loop."
Nemo wrote:Felt it necessary to add since it irks me when people refer to the initial round as the first loop, which it isn't.
Hmmm, is that technically how the definition of "loop" works? Is there a specific term for the "initial trip" through a game?
llaoyllakcuf wrote:ESPGALUDA.
Heh, methinks that one would almost fit better under the second "slow down" definition.
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Post by sffan »

BulletMagnet wrote:
Also, that suicide bullets are generally found in loops after the first.
I know that this is the case in Batsugun, off the top of my head, are there other games in which similar circumstances abound? I know that in Super Aleste higher difficulty levels include suicide bullets, but that's found right in the options menu, it's not really a "loop."
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Post by BulletMagnet »

I was aware of that mode too, but as in the case of Super Aleste it's not really a "loop," just a harder difficulty option. I'm mainly wondering what other examples there might be for suicide bullets appearing on later loops of a game...
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Post by Ganelon »

Examples of suicide bullets appearing/appearing many times more prevalently while on the 2nd loop:

Gradius Gaiden
Gradius V
Donpachi
Dodonpachi
Dodonpachi Dai-ou-jou
Strikers 1945
Strikers 1945 II

Just to name some of the most popular ones.
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Post by gameoverDude »

Just Defend: When a bullet or kamikaze enemy is about to hit you and you get rid of it in the nick of time by bombing or some other means. This term is taken from SNK's fighter Garou, where it means to block an attack at JUST the right instant. Giga Wing's Reflect Force is clearly not meant to JD with- though you can JD with a Force Bomb.

WTF: Synonym for Invisible Bullet Syndrome.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Ganelon wrote:Examples of suicide bullets appearing/appearing many times more prevalently while on the 2nd loop:
Sounds fair, worth a quick mention within the definition.
gameoverDude wrote:Just Defend: When a bullet or kamikaze enemy is about to hit you and you get rid of it in the nick of time by bombing or some other means.
I've heard the term before since I own Garou on my DC, but this is the first time I've heard it used in regard to shmups...about the only term I've heard otherwise for such a situation is "Nice Bomb" in Gunbird 2, and I doubt that's even worth a mention...
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Post by Minzoku »

gameoverDude wrote:WTF: Synonym for Invisible Bullet Syndrome.
Isn't that WTFJHM? ;)
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Post by Blade »

What do you call it when all the bullets onscreen disappear for a few secondss after your ship is destroyed? This also seems to happen whenever you destroy a boss at the end of a stage. I've played Ikaruga and had this happen: a bullet was about to hit my ship but disappeared just as I had defeated the boss.
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Post by shiftace »

BulletMagnet wrote:
gameoverDude wrote:Just Defend: When a bullet or kamikaze enemy is about to hit you and you get rid of it in the nick of time by bombing or some other means.
I've heard the term before since I own Garou on my DC, but this is the first time I've heard it used in regard to shmups...about the only term I've heard otherwise for such a situation is "Nice Bomb" in Gunbird 2, and I doubt that's even worth a mention...
IMO this is what "panic bomb" should refer to, but then again I don't know what's the common convention.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Minzoku wrote:Isn't that WTFJHM? ;)
I personally tend to say "This game has a bad case of Whatjusthitmeitis."
What do you call it when all the bullets onscreen disappear for a few secondss after your ship is destroyed? This also seems to happen whenever you destroy a boss at the end of a stage.
I've never heard of a technical term for that...it could be an interesting addition to the list, though, since not all shooters do that (and those that don't have a tendency to frustrate me to no end).
IMO this is what "panic bomb" should refer to, but then again I don't know what's the common convention.
I think "panic bombing" is using bombs even when there's no immediate threat, just to make sure nothing pops out of nowhere and gets you, not really the same thing.
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

Needs to add gimmick to the list.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

That one was requested on the previous forum too, but I'm hesitant to add it...the word "gimmick" really means pretty much the same thing no matter what it refers to, be it a shmup, a TV show, a gadget you buy, whatever...I think it's a bit too "universal," for lack of a better term, for a shmup-specific list. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
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Post by Zhon »

Heh, I actually disagree with the term "gimmick" as it applies to shmups, since it trivializes the importance of a game-wide game mechanic.
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Post by sffan »

Zhon wrote:Heh, I actually disagree with the term "gimmick" as it applies to shmups, since it trivializes the importance of a game-wide game mechanic.
I agree. Calling an original idea in a shmup a "gimmick" only discourages innovation and encourages uniformity in the genre.
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

Just to argue for more words, you could also say anyone should know what "bomb" means. They aren't as abstract as bullets in games are. Ka-boom.
2. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget.
Yeah, it's pretty universal but it could be explained in context of shooting game use. For shooting games the word seems to be used almost exclusively for modern shooters because they are too similar to the untrained eye (lots of bullets, no walls) and there's a push for unique features to attract arcade players. It is usually the most important aspect to mastering the scoring system.

A lot of classics shooters got by on changing the style more than any fundamental gameplay feature. I mean, what could you possibly say Gate of Thunder's gimmick is? Imitating Thunder Force? A rockin' CD audio soundtrack? The gimmick serves as their identifying feature, a sometimes innovative gameplay mechanic (I really don't think Trizeal's side attack gimmick is really innovative). Someone will ask, "hey, what's Giga Wing" and the knowing gamer will say "duh, a shooter with a reflect gimmick." Do racing games or RPGs get summarized so succinctly with "_______ gimmick?" Final Fantasy, an RPG with FMV, annoying character design, Cid, and card game gimmicks!

Yeah, I think it trivializes the uniqueness of modern shooters and is used in the same way as terms like boss fest. I still end up saying this all of the time. It's too easy to succumb to gimmick word use. I don't disrespect gimmicks. They're great.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Rob wrote:Just to argue for more words, you could also say anyone should know what "bomb" means. They aren't as abstract as bullets in games are. Ka-boom.
I tend to think that that argument could go either way...yeah, people know that a bomb is something that blows up, but the way that it's defined in the Glossary, only the shmup genre applies it like that. There are "bombs" in FPS games, action games, puzzle games, etc., but in pretty much all cases they're not built on the same concept that shmup "bombs" are. In addition, "bombs" in shmups vary widely in use and nature, so I figured that clarifications on those might be worth mentioning.
Do racing games or RPGs get summarized so succinctly with "_______ gimmick?" Final Fantasy, an RPG with FMV, annoying character design, Cid, and card game gimmicks!
I definitely don't hear the term used as often in reference to other genres, but it could be applied just as easily...Final Fantasy is sort of a bad example, since it's generally considered sort of a "template" RPG to which many others are compared, but for instance one could easily say that Thousand Arms' dating system was its "gimmick," and Pokemon's trading/collection was its "gimmick." Not to mention that the term means essentially the same thing when applied to things outside the video game realm, unlike "bomb," or even other terms I've neglected to include here, such as "boss."
Yeah, it's pretty universal but it could be explained in context of shooting game use. For shooting games the word seems to be used almost exclusively for modern shooters because they are too similar to the untrained eye (lots of bullets, no walls) and there's a push for unique features to attract arcade players. It is usually the most important aspect to mastering the scoring system.
What you say is true, but I'm still not 100% on this...any other opinions?
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Slightly off topic, I'd best mention this before I forget: I've gotten a handful of requests from members here to use this list on their own sites, and since it really belongs to "the forum" I don't personally see any reason to prohibit it, though I figured I ought to let you guys in on it in case you had anything to say on the matter. Two things I did request from the most recent asker were 1) Realize that the list is not yet complete, and you'll have to update to keep up with it, and 2) The glossary should be credited as "Created by the Shmups.com forum community, compiled and edited by BulletMagnet."

Any problems/suggestions/whatever on this? If not I'll edit the first post to include these guidelines for anyone else who wants to use this.
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Post by gameoverDude »

-X Factor (Negative X Factor, Dark X Factor): For some mysterious reason, you have a lot of stupid, idiotic "Shit! I know better than that" deaths during parts of a game that you can normally No Miss. Can indicate the need for the player to take a break.

Speed Zone: An area where the scrolling drives you ahead at a faster pace than usual. Found mostly in the Gradius series.
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BulletMagnet
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Post by BulletMagnet »

gameoverDude wrote:-X Factor (Negative X Factor, Dark X Factor)
Haven't heard of that one...could it possibly be grouped under "Stupid Death Syndrome," if I decide to include that?
Speed Zone
I remember these from Gradius, but does any other series include them regularly?
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Post by sffan »

BulletMagnet wrote:
Speed Zone
I remember these from Gradius, but does any other series include them regularly?
Espgaluda has a fast-scrolling zone at the end of level 3.

Dangerous Seed has fast-scrolling zones in each level, but they are conditional. If you don't do a certain thing, they scroll normally.

I just happenned to notice these, of the relatively few shmups I'm familiar with.
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Post by ST Dragon »

You forgot the "Panorama" mode in Raiden Project (PSX) that stretches the display to fit the whole screen.
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

Are you talking about tate?
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