Batsugun S-Tribute

[Rastan78]

https://twitter.com/kimagreGaming/statu ... GMxUg&s=19

PS4 and Switch not too far from the PC version. Not great but probably tolerable for a lot of players. Given the context of some of their past releases this is good news.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Is this not available yet on the psn store? I see a listing that shows a 5-24 release date with the screenshots and all that. But there is no option to buy it.

[hamfighterx]

Given the context of some of their past releases

And to be fair, predominantly just ONE of their past releases (the first S-Tribute release, Cotton & Guardian Force). Haven't really heard much in the way of serious complaints about egregiously bad performance of any of the other S-Tribute releases, or their other recent shooter releases like Deathsmiles or Akai Katana. But the love of needless drama any time City Connection's name is mentioned remains alive and well!

[Nugs]

I'm happy with the Switch version. Doesn't feel laggy to me.
I just wanted a good handheld version to play like this.

Spoiler

[Steven]

I would not consider any of those numbers to be good, especially on PC, but it's better than the 10~13 frames on Guardian Force or whatever it was. I will never forgive them for that because I was really looking forward to that.

There is no point in me buying the PC version since that would just be a straight downgrade from PS4, but I wonder how it performs on PS5.

[scrilla4rella]

Steam port feeling on point over here. I used to play the shit out of this on my Saturn and tate'd CRT. I think I've beat my old score record on this version, and feel like I'm pulling of some sick maneuvers, so that's good. Fucking god-tier shooter right here.
-
those melodies on stage 2 and 4's music tho...

[Lemnear]

another game that isn't on the PSN store in my region...despite they said "worldwide" release

[lovecraft]

If you have the Saturn version (my case), is it worth it ?

[Lemnear]

If you have the Saturn version (my case), is it worth it ?

If your Saturn works, i don't think.
Probably is for comodity , to get the PS4/Switch/PC version and play all your games on the same machine.
But i'm a profane on portings and i wish that someone on this forum would training me to recognize all the little difference

[Marc]

If you have the Saturn version (my case), is it worth it ?

It has non-cropped yoko mode, so I'd say so.

[scrilla4rella]

If you have the Saturn version (my case), is it worth it ?

in my case it was def worth it. I have very limited space and can't keep everything hooked up at once. I also get some value from being able to use my sick arcade stick via usb. As I don't have a sanwa-parts stick for Saturn.

[Sima Tuna]

So, about 5 1/2 frames for the Switch version, according to that link? That's practically a 5-star effort, by Shitty Connection standards.

[Steven]

There is still one piece of data that we need, though: the input lag on a real Saturn disc running on a real Saturn. Buffi mentioned the PCB being probably 2 frames here

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1524070

so maybe/hopefully someone can test using a real Saturn.

[BIL]

All sounding about right; I figured after the PS4 Layer Section, this would land in the same acceptable ballpark. Although I heard bad things about that one's NSW equivalent, so it seems they really have pulled themselves together a bit, since.

It really was one of the greatest PR boners of all time, launching this series with not one but three abnormally natively-laggy STGs, in the Success trio. That's just calamitous - think of all the ill will they'd have dodged, going with Layer Section or Batsugun instead! Or even Metal Black; they might not even have needed to shitcan the PS4 and NSW versions with Hamster's release still some ways off (if as deviously undetectable as ever ;3 Ham-chan all *NOM* like the attract mode on ur sales ).

Haha yeah, I know, MB's not a marquee name. Even so, it wouldn't have left a brutal mark on their rep!

Oh well. It's good to see CC wrench themselves up a few notches, from "dear god stop, I'm NSW-only!" to acceptability. Less odds of good licenses going to waste, you know?

[Steven]

I'd very much like to see complete lag tests for all of City Connection's Saturn stuff, with lag tests from the original PCB/ST-V/whatever, original Saturn disc on real Saturn, and City Connection, just to see how everything compares. It would be very interesting to see RayForce standalone PCB version, F3 cartridge version, Saturn Layer Section, City Connection Layer Section on every platform, and Ray'z on both platforms all compared. I don't think anyone is going to bother doing all of that work, though.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Rayforce F3 cartidge as in bootleg, right? I don't remember any of the F3 PCBs getting official cartridge counterparts. Anyway, same hardware otherwise, input response should be just the same on both.

[Steven]

That's a bootleg? Uh... disregard the cartridge, then.

[denpanosekai]

Given the context of some of their past releases

And to be fair, predominantly just ONE of their past releases (the first S-Tribute release, Cotton & Guardian Force). Haven't really heard much in the way of serious complaints about egregiously bad performance of any of the other S-Tribute releases, or their other recent shooter releases like Deathsmiles or Akai Katana. But the love of needless drama any time City Connection's name is mentioned remains alive and well!

Thank you for putting that out there. I think the blame lies on both sides: CC for putting out such a crap port in the first place, and "fans" for shaming them nonstop, despite CC's continuous improvements and dedication to re-releasing fantastic old SHMUPs to a new generation of fans. I'm just thankful on a preservation and budget aspect, to be able to own these games without forking over big money and basement space for the originals.

[Bassa-Bassa]

despite CC's continuous improvements and dedication to re-releasing fantastic old SHMUPs to a new generation of fans. I'm just thankful on a preservation and budget aspect, to be able to own these games without forking over big money and basement space for the originals.

They're paying "tribute" to arcade classics by way of emulation of freaking console ports. What dedication is that, I wonder.

[Marc]

despite CC's continuous improvements and dedication to re-releasing fantastic old SHMUPs to a new generation of fans. I'm just thankful on a preservation and budget aspect, to be able to own these games without forking over big money and basement space for the originals.

They're paying "tribute" to arcade classics by way of emulation of freaking console ports. What dedication is that, I wonder.

In fairness, for the gane in question, the licence is already taken. And I'm sure M2's port will be far better, presuming at age 45 I live long enough to see it.

They do seem to have put a decent amount of effort into this one, so it's the best we're gonna get. For a (long) while.

[BIL]

And I'm sure M2's port will be far better, presuming at age 45 I live long enough to see it.

You must survive!

sometimes i wish m2 would just do simple ports like this and hamsters as we would get a lot more good ports rather than widgets and statistics. i just wanna change my controls,put some credits in and press start and play

And you too Charlie, you old rascal! I don't know how old you are but u are one of my several shumps dads ok

[cfx]

Over 65 here, which is why I can say I'm not buying any consoles post-PS4 and actually mean it. I'll be dead before I master anywhere near all the games I have.

I'm sure it's also why I'm bitchy and mostly feel out of touch with tastes here when it comes to things that aren't shooters.

[BIL]

Damn! Rock on sir. Do like Lemmy and punch death in the fuckin mouth with a good sendoff vs the flying saucers before the stubborn auld cunt finally comes to collect! A pretty good bucket list this gen.

[Sima Tuna]

It really was one of the greatest PR boners of all time, launching this series with not one but three abnormally natively-laggy STGs, in the Success trio. That's just calamitous - think of all the ill will they'd have dodged, going with Layer Section or Batsugun instead! Or even Metal Black; they might not even have needed to shitcan the PS4 and NSW versions with Hamster's release still some ways off (if as deviously undetectable as ever ;3 Ham-chan all *NOM* like the attract mode on ur sales ).

Oh well. It's good to see CC wrench themselves up a few notches, from "dear god stop, I'm NSW-only!" to acceptability. Less odds of good licenses going to waste, you know?

I think the biggest boner was the way Shitty Connection did Psikyo dirty.

First off, they released basically every Psikyo game under their label. I presume that means they contracted for the rights or they own the rights. So it's unlikely we're going to see "fixed," superior, arcade-accurate ports of those Psikyo titles under another label, like Hamster or Sweet Baby Ray'z.

Second, Psikyo games are infamously difficult, with fast-as-fuck bullets you can barely react to on native hardware. Add 6+ frames of input lag and now try.

Third, the games didn't come with any special features or options. No button mappings. No save states. No practice modes or arranges.

So the end result was that Psikyo as a whole sorta got completely fucked over by Shitty Connection. It's not like SC released a single bad Psikyo port and there's hope for ACA to someday get Dragon Blaze. Shitty Connection released all the games and they're all more or less shit ports. Especially on Switch, but even the "fixed" versions on PC, IIRC still have no button mappings or practice options. I could be wrong about that (because I'm not going to give them any more of my money just to check.) I feel bad enough that poor Dragon Blaze is forever going to exist in my Nintendo profile, as proof of that time I wasted my money when I should have emulated.

I mean, I'm not happy about the 3 saturn ports Shitty Connection released with 10 frames of input lag, but those were "just" three games.

[Bassa-Bassa]

City Connection aren't the ones to blame for the Psikyo games on modern platforms - while it's true that they bought the dev Zero Div and with them, Psikyo's IPs, the first versions of their ports for the Switch had nothing to do with CC, which just published the other versions a bit later after the absorption. Ironically, Zero Div is at least led by an ex-Psikyo staffer, and is the closest thing to a natural Psikyo successor there has existed ever.

[BIL]

The Psikyo situation does sound god-awful on Switch, I'd forgotten about that. Even if you could grind yourself into decent shape with that much lag, I can't imagine it not turning already memo-intensive games into utter rote torturefests.

tbh I find Dragon Blaze and Strikers 1999 acceptably responsive on PS4 (with an entry-level gaming monitor and Brook UFB, admittedly); controls are totally remappable ala ACA, too. The lack of even one savestate is not good; granted, that's exactly as many as the PCB will give you, but you know. Still, the games are willfully short and you'll hit the meatgrinder stages in a jiffy, so not the blow it'd be to more conventionally-paced STGs.

However, I then decided to go out on a limb with PS4 Strikers 1945 II, which a surprising swathe of learned fellows reviewed as if it were a long-awaited emulation of the arcade game. It's not. It's the PS1 port, again, just like on PS2. A valiant effort in its time, but sneaking it in here without some annotation is exactly the kind of casual dickery that makes me keep these guys at arm's length. Gunbird and Gunbird 2 and IIRC Strikers all suffer from this approach, too.

For all I know DB is just the PS2 port, but that one was always highly-regarded, and the PS4 one is at least non-interlaced. The "port of a port" thing isn't ideal, but as long as they're not "bad port of a port" I can deal with it.

Switch thing is criminal though, not to minimise that. :/

City Connection aren't the ones to blame for the Psikyo games on modern platforms - while it's true that they bought the dev Zero Div and with them, Psikyo's IPs, the first versions of their ports for the Switch had nothing to do with CC, which just published the other versions a bit later after the absorption. Ironically, Zero Div is at least led by an ex-Psikyo staffer, and is the closest thing to a natural Psikyo successor there has existed ever.

Excellent point, I always forget those guys. I still wonder about ACA Strikers 1945 Plus, which bears their name. Out of all those hundreds of releases, that's the only one I can think of that launched in "Holy fuck, cleanse it with fire" brokenness. Patched with the quickness by Hamster. Hard not to wonder if ZD somehow cocked something up, as ridiculous as that sounds.

[BrianC]

A similar issue with Strikers 1945 Plus also happened with a custom Final Burn Alpha build that was quickly fixed.

[BIL]

I wonder it it's something specific to the MVS cart that trips up emulators. Other than the less flattering possibility that ACA Strikers Plus is literally Final Burn Alpha (like PS2 Thunder Cross is MAME ).

[BrianC]

Maybe, a similar issue was in an earlier version of MAME, as well.

[SavagePencil]

If those fucking fuckers put out a collector’s edition with a vinyl OST, I will fold like a cheap suit for this thing.