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Was rapid fire function or a rapid fire button standard on the original US Raiden cabinets?

Did the US boards even have that option?

What about Raiden II? DX?

Just trying to re-live Raiden on my PSX the way it used to be played back in the day in the arcades.

Not in my experience. And the only Raiden II I have seen in the wild was in a Raiden I cabinet. I don’t know if it was sold as a dedicated or just as a conversion kit.

No the original boards of these games wouldn't have any kind of autofire. It has to be an extra circuit added by the arcade operator. If authenticity to US arcades is the priority then go with no auto button.

All of export versions in DX PCB have C button with 15hz auto built-in, not the case in original Japanese PCB.

That's cool. I only played the Japan PCB of DX and never knew that.

By the way I came across this quote from 1992 by Seibu staff that might be relevant:

That's what I remember, thanks!

I'm guessing if operator's did an upgrade from Raiden/Raiden II to DX and didn't want to change the console area they may have just left the C button autofire out?

Was Raiden DX even released commercially in the US?

Proceeding to turn off autofire in The Raiden Project for my PSX.

Raiden DX did released in the US distributed by Fabtek (like many of Seibu games at the time), here is the promotional flyer.



Why though? Unless you can mash 15-30 times per second consistently without getting tired there's no need to turn off autofire especially that it's implemented by the devs itself. Autofire has been common feature of shmup ports during the time (and still is) and it's a godsend feature.

I find the physical toll and fatigue which obviously affects your in game performance quite entertaining. I'm the type that always goes into the options and sets the game to maximum difficulty before playing, no matter how bad I am. I'm not trying to beat the game in record time or get a high score, just trying to have some fun. I find the more difficult/challenging, the more fun.

Also why I hate when games allow infinite continues, I feel like if you want to get that far into the game you need to earn it. I know of course in the arcade you can keep feeding a machine quarters, but I was never rich enough as a kid to do that, I think most kids weren't, and I think that's the appeal.

At one time, I'd have been a stickler to keeping to how the designer intended it. With my nervous system breaking down over time, I've loosened my stance on this sort of thing completely-- if you want to strain your arms and possibly injure yourself, go for it, but I don't see autofire as cheating.

I very much used to be a "play it legit, as intended on original hardware" person, but, after 3 hand surgeries for gaming-related RSI injuries, I wouldn't punish myself like that today. There's a certain pride in walking away from a good game with a sore arm and a numb finger, but it's not worth it long-term.

Might as well get good at the game with auto fire and then challenge yourself to do it without, if it's truly that important. Save your poor hands some pain.

If I were you I'd go with a human rate autofire if you want to experience the intended Raiden/II but also protect your hand. You'll be able to tap at some spots, but rest your hand for the most part. For Raiden DX use the in-game 15Hz instead of external 30Hz and you're good to go (and maybe add a low rate external auto as well, for safety)

if auto makes the game more fun use it. and make note of it in any replays or scores you post. thats my philosophy

There is only one game that I know of that is better when you do not use autofire, and Raiden is definitely not that game.

If you find button mashing fun, then fine, but the reality is it's an accessibility issue for many people. Demanding mashing for a 30 minute, hour long, or even hour and a half long game takes a huge toll on your hands and isn't generally seen as a "fun" mechanic. It's why Japanese arcades nowadays often supply autofire buttons for older games so they're more universally accessible even for people who have arthritis, are prone to repetitive stress injuries, and so on.

Autofire doesn't need to break the game either. As SPM said, you can use a humanly achievable autofire rate that's fast but not 15 or 30 hz fast.

Most modern shmups assume autofire is a given, and even many arcade games offer autofire built in. Omega Fighter's an older example, then there's Rayforce, Batsugun Special, pretty much all of CAVE's games aside from ESP.Ra.De (due to how there's an extra button used), and so on.

Did not know there were shmup button mashing related injuries, you learn something every day.

I never said autofire was cheating. I just want to try and experience the game the way it was in the arcades back in the day. That's a big part of the appeal for me.

I'm just trying to have some fun, for me it's more fun. Isn't that the whole point? I have no problem with people having fun in whichever way they prefer, no matter how much it differs from my preferences.

I play very casually so don't think I will ever get to the point of injury, but will definately keep that in mind if I ever start sinking serious time into Raiden I/II/DX.

I do have a C&L Championship Joystick for SNES that I plan to get an adapter for to use on my PSX, if that helps? Not really a fan of using a controller for button mashing. I know it's not the best joystick to play Raiden with but it's the most accurate plug and play option that matches the US arcade cabinets' consoles.

In which arcades? US, or Japanese? Remember, US operators were very much firmly told that they were money generators; the whole concept about actually giving a shit about the games themselves being good, let alone fun, is not something championed by US arcade operators. The Japanese were the ones who pioneered and embraced the far more comfortable sit-down style candy cabs most people round here envy, and also were quick to embrace external autofire support to make the games as fun as possible. Income for an operator was less about simply about killing the player off quickly, but making the games a fun experience to revisit repeatedly.

If you go to a proper Japanese arcade today, there's a big focus on providing the best possible experience for the game, which is hugely different to US attitudes in terms of how many arcades were operated. Button mashing is simply not seen as something that adds to that, hence why it's generally frowned upon. It's also different from a beat em up where you have to press the same button frequently in that in a shmup you're encouraged to mash very fast nonstop at an even pace for a rather extended period with little to no timing per se involved.

I would suggest that the experience you're trying to replicate isn't actually a good one. It's the one you're nostalgic for, but there's arguably an even better arcade experience you're just not aware existed.

US.


That's fair, but it really is actually all about the nostalgia for me.

If I did not have those experiences as a child I would not be playing a single video game today, and the only video games I do still play are few ones from my childhood. I own nothing modern, and have no interest in playing anything outside of my nostalgic memories.

That being said, I will definately check out these candy cabs in Japan's arcades one day now with a different persepective. If I had to pick though, I'd probably stick a Dynamo cab with Happ buttons and joysticks in my house, but that's just me.

As long as you don't need to rotate the monitor or run 31KHz games, New Astro City is a god-tier cabinet: it has the best button layout available (seriously, WHY THE FUCK DOES NOBODY MAKE ASTRO CITY LAYOUT ARCADE STICKS!?!?!? Astro City button layout is amazing! Noir is pretty close, though, and fortunately Sega's own Astro City Mini stick is really damn good if you can get it, but it has some weird stuff going on when you try to use it on PC), it has an excellent monitor, they are relatively common, which also means parts are relatively easy to find, and you can put in a monitor that can do 31KHz if you really want to spend the money to do that.

Most importantly, the New Astro is a stupidly good-looking cabinet, and as everyone knows, looking good is more important than function... right?

There is a reason that arcades like Mikado have almost nothing but Astros and New Astros, with a few Blast Cities here and there: it's just an awesome cabinet. Yeah, you'll have to put in some work to rotate the monitor, but for the price of an Egret II you can probably buy two New Astros and then not have to worry about it!

Holy shit, I forgot the best thing about the Astro: it has high-resolution graphics and stereo-of-the-art sound that double your playing enjoyment! You know this is true because it says so right on the Astro itself. Both 1P side and 2P side get to enjoy the high-resolution graphics and stereo-of-the-art sound, as well! That means it's the best cabinet out there, right?



That's right, I have EXACTLY twice as much fun playing Hishouzame on the Astro as I do on PS4, Switch, or any other way. Never mind that the game doesn't actually have stereo sound, trust me, it's better this way!

I'm with you on the astro layout. I think what happened is when MadCatz came out with the first SFIV sticks they were modeled after the Taito Vewlix cabs found on the arcade version. Those TE sticks really popularized the whole having a Japanese style stick at home thing, and other makers have been using the Vewlix layout as a standard since then. The problem is it does suck and is uncomfortable compared to the good old Astro layout.

Recently I made a custom stick with Astro 2P side layout which is just rotated slightly counter-clockwise. A little nicer if you play with your elbow more off to the side. If you play with your elbow tucked in and wrist going more straight out then the 1P side layout is probably better.

@DatPhosphorGlow if you get to the point where you care about having a quality stick go with a Japanese one. Something like a Seimitsu LS-32 is going to be the competitive standard for shmups and what the original devs had in mind.

Very few people would want to go back to US style stick after playing Japanese style. Not only that in spite of growing up in the US I think in terms of universal iconic look the LS-32 has this simple classic balltop design that is about as universal arcade nostalgia as you can get.

Add to that given that the whole market around arcade authentic sticks shifted strongly towards Japanese style you can get something pretty cheap and easily which will be very authentic. If you want something that actually looks and feel true to an American cab you will need Happ competition sticks or similar which need a thick wooden panel. You will end up needing a MAS stick or full custom and spending a ton. Not sure what is out there affordable that is close to the original thing.

Seimitsu LS-32, classic Japanese stick used since the 80s or 90s in arcades. Go with a stick in this style, trust me:

Yeah, I don't like Vewlix that much. It's better than some other layouts like those weird box layouts on some of the Neo Geo cabinets or that really strange Neo Geo one that has D above the ABC,

edit: this one



but Vewlix is definitely not one of my favourites. Astro is the best! I can see some people not liking how close the stick is to the buttons, and in that case Noir is more or less Astro but with the stick farther away, and Hori makes that Noir stick for PS3/PS4/PS5 that is really nice. The Hayabusa lever feels quite loose compared to the LS-32, but the LS-32 is pretty cheap, so I'll probably put one of those in there eventually.

Yeah, those baseball bat style sticks are stiff as all hell. A half-decent Sanwa or Seimitsu made stick is infinitely better to play on. I went to an arcade recently with a bunch of stand-up cabs that had the super stiff baseball sticks installed in most things and it was awful, like borderline unplayable by comparison. I loathe the idea of being nostalgic about such a poor quality way when there's far better, more responsive hardware available to experience great arcade games.

One of the nice things about the forum is that the folks round here generally don't put much stock in nostalgia. Our interest is in the games themselves and getting the best possible experience from them. They're old games, but they're played because they're fun and have stood the test of time, not because they're simply nostalgic. Indeed, there's plenty of threads discussing revisiting older games and discovering they really haven't aged well (case in point, most of the "big hitbox with a lifebar" MS-DOS shmups I played as a kid, heh). We still have our guilty pleasure games but freely admit they're not necessarily all that good either.

The first time I saw a Seibu Kaihatsu produced Raiden II stg was back in February of 1994 (with a "New Game" sign placed on top of the cab to denote that it was a brand new game) -- it was a jamma conversion kit sold & distributed by Fabtek (an American arcade game company that had gotten the exclusive rights to Seibu's arcade pcb kits). It was housed in a full-sized Dynamo upright cab sporting two 8-way digital joysticks and two buttons per player layout/setup at the local Regency Game Palace arcade joint (that used gold colored tokens as the "gold standard" to credit up the various cabs & pinball games).

The backup battery on a typical USA region Raiden II pcb did save both high scores & high score initials (if powered down for the night) and would display again from a "cold boot" the next day). Unfortunately, once the backup battery died, both high scores & high score initials functionality were lost for good.

A typical USA region Raiden II pcb didn't have auto-fire capability and thus the arcade gamer had to press the fire button at a consistent rate (if using the purple homing laser power-up maxed out). That was how Raiden II was played in the American arcades back in the mid-1990s indeed. As usual, all Dynamo upright cabs used the old-school Happ Controls produced bat-wing shaped arcade joysticks to play the various arcade stg arcade titles for the American arcade gamer in the 1990s.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Yeah one of the objectively bad things about western controllers like the Happ competitions is they return to neutral so hard they sometimes bounce back and hit the opposite input. Not great. I mean there are fighting game players that had/have insane execution on those things. It can be done, but why work harder?

Anyway sticks are passé these days and just for "boomers." Time to get with what the kids are doing these days.


@Steven, that Neo layout is definitely funky lol. Here's a custom stick I recently put together. Astro 2P side layout with extended joystick so it's not quite so close to the buttons. Pretty ideal IMO.


Like PC Engine Fan X! said without doubt Raiden II would've been without auto in the US. As far as in Japan, the best research I could do showed that autofire circuits on cabs in Japan started to proliferate around 1988 or so. So all Raiden gsmes were played over there both with and without. Official Gamest score collecting had categories for both on and off.

One of my buddies made one of those meme arcade sticks out of a greasy, used pizza box.

It lasted a good few weeks before it fell apart.