Toaplan games coming to PC (Steam, GOG)

[Steven]

What is the refresh rate on the Battle Garegga PCB? That looks fine on PS4 as far as I have seen. M2's Kyuukyoku Tiger has some pretty bad stuttering, unfortunately, so I am hoping to avoid that with the PC release. I remember Hishouzame's refresh rate is like 54.78Hz or something like that, and the K Tiger PCB is similar to the Hishouzame one but with the smaller secondary board, so I imagine they might be the same. M2 Hishouzame also has some stuttering, sadly, and the beginning of Last Fighter still skips, too.

[Rastan78]

The trick would be to use VRR. I don't think there's any way to fully avoid stutter if a game runs at a low refresh down near 55hz other than speed up the game to 60.

VRR could allow a 60hz digital monitor to sync to the correct refresh without tearing or stutter. Of course only people with the required setup can take advantage.

[Steven]

I know Mushihimesama on PC has screen tearing due to running at whatever it runs at; I greatly prefer that to stutter, especially since I almost never actually notice screen tearing.

I don't have VRR, though. Unfortunately the monitor that I have now, despite being a decade old, is somehow amazing, and it has everything I need: lag comparable to a CRT, built-in speakers that are actually pretty good, and the ability to force 4:3 in case I need to do that (which I do with the OSSC for some reason). I got it about 9 years ago and I have yet to find something new that does all of these things perfectly, which saddens me, as I really want higher refresh rates for new games, VRR, and higher resolutions than 1920x1080 for better integer scaling of old games. I tried that Asus VG27AQL1A last year, but the speakers on it were absolutely terrible and I need those speakers for consoles with HDMI audio. I would have been fine with getting external speakers or something to connect to that monitor, but the option to force 4:3 was greyed out and it displayed the signal from the RetroTINK 5x in 16:9, and it had a very obvious bright green stuck pixel just below the very center of the monitor, so I returned it.

[tomwhite2004]

I know Mushihimesama on PC has screen tearing due to running at whatever it runs at

Mushi tears becuase there is no Vsync enabled by defualt, not becuase of an off spec refresh rate. Go to the games configration file and add Vsync=1.

[Rastan78]

@Steven, you might want to look at TVs. The newer LG OLEDs are amazing and cover pretty much all the bases for gaming although they aren't cheap. Since a lot of TVs now have that near CRT level response time that opens up a lot of options including bigger sizes.

[Steven]

I know Mushihimesama on PC has screen tearing due to running at whatever it runs at

Mushi tears becuase there is no Vsync enabled by defualt, not becuase of an off spec refresh rate. Go to the games configration file and add Vsync=1.

Cool. I'll try that the next time I'm not lazy.

@Steven, you might want to look at TVs. The newer LG OLEDs are amazing and cover pretty much all the bases for gaming although they aren't cheap. Since a lot of TVs now have that near CRT level response time that opens up a lot of options including bigger sizes.

Can't; I live in a small 1-room apartment and have no space for a TV, mostly because of my Trinitron being in the way. I'd have to get rid of the Trinitron in order to make space for an HDTV.

[Leeram]

I'll definitely be buying all of them!

{crosses fingers and hopes that Truxton will be awesome}

[FunktionJCB]

The first batch of titles launch later today.

I'm not sure if it was known already, but it seems the plan is to release 16 Toaplan games in total:
https://twitter.com/bitwavegames/status ... 9303237632

So, I assume we are looking at:

Tiger-Heli
Slap Fight
Hishouzame (Sky Shark / Flying Shark)
Kyuukyoku Tiger (Twin Cobra)
Tatsujin (Truxton)
Hellfire
Daisenpuu (Twin Hawk)
Zero Wing
Same! Same! Same! (Fire Shark)
OutZone
Vimana
Fixeight
Dogyuun
Tatsujin Ou (Truxton II)
V-V (V-Five / Grind Stormer)
Batsugun

[Steven]

I really hope they do all of the non-shooting titles as well.

[Steven]

The Super Space Sniper is here! On GOG, anyway. Edit: Now Steam is up as well. I was under the impression that there was supposed to be a $20 set with all of them, but I'm not seeing it yet, oddly.

Another edit: they posted the Steam discount thingy on Twitter: https://t.co/XJ4H0lIVAJ

GO PLAY OUT ZONE!

Also seems Spy Bros has a demo out now as well.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

play it

[Steven]

Uh

Out Zone's music seems kind of fucked in the sound test.

Shit, the sound in general is completely broken in the game. Sound effects are completely wrong, wrong music on basically every stage, no sound in the attract mode even when attract mode sound DIP switch is set to on, music tempo fluctuates oddly, DIP switch settings seem to not default to the actual default settings, selecting the Japanese version still gives the overseas intro, etc..

Uh....

well, let's try Kyuukyoku Tiger.

Yep, same thing here, except it actually does give Kyuukyoku Tiger properly instead of Twin Cobra when selected. Yeah, about that...

It also seems that the widescreen mode affects enemy spawn locations in this game, so they don't appear where they should. They spawn properly when using the regular screen size, however.

Alright, Tatsujin is next.

Same here. Both this and K Tiger also seem to default to 50,000/150,000 every for the extend values every time you close and start the program again. This is correct for Twin Cobra, but K Tiger and I believe also Tatsujin should be using 70,000/200,000 every. Never bothered to learn the default values for Zero Wing and Out Zone, so I don't know what those are. Pretty sure Zero Wing is 200,000/500,000 every, but I totally forget Out Zone. I have the operator instruction manual, but it's late and I'm tired, so I'll check after I wake up.

Also, Ogiwara Naoki isn't mentioned in the credits for the original arcade version. Didn't check the credits on the other games yet.

Okay, checked and Wada Etsuhiro and Ogiwara are missing from Out Zone, and Iwabuchi is also inconsistently named; his Twitter page says he married and changed his family name to Kusaka, and he is credited as Kusaka as the rights manager, but as Iwabuchi as the actual artist in Kyuukyoku Tiger. They are the same person, so I'm not sure how that should be done. I met him recently and everyone from Toaplan still calls him Iwabuchi and he signed my games as Iwabuchi, but he is legally Kusaka now, so I don't know what to do with that unless this is how he wants it to be done. He's credited under both names in Snow Bros Special on Switch (and also as Buchi Saika; if you know the meaning behind that nickname you REALLY know Toaplan! I wonder how many people here besides me know why he is called that...).

Zero Wing now.

Okay, autofire needs to be toggled on separately instead of just being on. It also seems you only get one autofire speed at a time unless I am missing something. Audio is still super broken on Zero Wing.

Zero Wing has the player's shots and little satellite thingies clipping through the HUD partially, like this

Spoiler

Not sure if that happens on PCB since this is one of only 3 Toaplan STGs that I have never played on PCB (the others are Hellfire and Tiger-Heli), but I don't think this is supposed to happen.

It also gave me the achievement for dying without me actually dying, which is odd. I recorded it, so Carl-Henrik, let me know if you want to see it and I'll send it to you in case it helps.

I already forgot, but I think that two of the composers are missing from Zero Wing's credits: Yuge-san, who did stage 4 (and nothing else, not even programming, as far as I know!) and also Tomizawa Toshiaki, who did stages 2, 6, and 8.

So, yeah. I'm guessing/hoping that they pushed older versions out by mistake. It happens sometimes. Fortunately, the games actually all play very well, although the widescreen is a bit awkward-looking at points like the part in Tatsujin when your carrier thingy opens up to deploy your ship, but it is still pretty damn cool to play Kyuukyoku Tiger with the full screen displayed at once, even if it was never meant to be played that way. These are also EXTREMELY TINY, at only 2MB~3MB each. I figured the emulator would take up more space than that, but apparently not!

Everything seems to run at 60FPS according to my FPS counter, so I'm guessing these will not stay in sync with the PCB, but I can test with Out Zone since I actually have that PCB. Don't have the rest, though.

[MJR]

The Super Space Sniper is here! On GOG, anyway. Edit: Now Steam is up as well. I was under the impression that there was supposed to be a $20 set with all of them, but I'm not seeing it yet, oddly.

Another edit: they posted the Steam discount thingy on Twitter: https://t.co/XJ4H0lIVAJ

GO PLAY OUT ZONE!

Also seems Spy Bros has a demo out now as well.

Nice! But..

Is there a reason why Steam version chose to use the oldest rom set for Out Zone, with wrong soundtrack order and missing features (such as trees on lvl2) ?

[Steven]

Yeah, I'm not sure what is going on here. The video settings also seem to not save when you close the game and relaunch it.

Just made it to the final stage in Out Zone and I must say that this version of the game is weird. It is very different from my PCB, like as if my PCB is the complete version and this PC version uses a beta ROM revision. Didn't check the hard ROM, though, so I should do that and see how it goes.

Alright, played hard ROM until stage 3 and it plays just like the hard ROM should. I also noticed that I got the first death achievement in Out Zone when my shield got hit and I lived. Interesting.

Well, as these are now, I can't recommend them. Not yet, anyway. They play wonderfully, aside from Out Zone being the weird version, but with totally fucked audio and the other strange oddities, I don't think I can recommend these as they currently are. Yes, I tried uninstalling and reinstalling and no changes. They have very high potential, though, so with fixes, these will unquestionably be extremely nice versions of these games.

Now having said all of these negative things, I do have one important thing to say: I prefer these over shitty MAME! 3 reasons:

1. no need to use VRR or a CRT to avoid stuttering
2. MAME has noticeable input lag that even my slow-ass brain can detect! These do not = these are way better
3. no red flash in Zero Wing

[FunktionJCB]

Thank you for your detailed feedback, Steven.

It's a bit disappointing that these problems are present at launch, especially since this is the first wave of titles, but I'm sure a patch or two will fix most of this.

Maybe Carl-Henrik will consider allowing a few members of the community "early" beta access on future titles for feedback, so that the next wave may launch in better shape.

[Steven]

Yeah sure, no problem. I think these can be better than the PCBs with some fixes. Out Zone needs it the most, especially since it's some weird version of the game, but I don't want this weird version removed; I say keep it and make the regular normal ROM the default, which will give us 3 separate, different versions of Out Zone. That would be really cool.

[FunktionJCB]

Yeah sure, no problem. I think these can be better than the PCBs with some fixes. Out Zone needs it the most, especially since it's some weird version of the game, but I don't want this weird version removed; I say keep it and make the regular normal ROM the default, which will give us 3 separate, different versions of Out Zone. That would be really cool.

That Out Zone version "problem" has been mentioned by several users on the Steam forums already, and they are apparently looking into this, so hopefully it will be fixed soon:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2022920/ ... 654382727/

---

And since today is clearly a Toaplan bonanza, Spy Bros. (Pipi & Bibi’s DX) is out now on Steam:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2106 ... _Bibis_DX/

[Steven]

Yep, just downloaded Spy Bros. Impressions shortly! This, Mahjong Sisters, and Enma Daiou are the only publicly released Toaplan games that I have never played, so I have absolutely no idea what to expect.

Alright, so it's kind of like if Toaplan made a bootleg Elevator Action type of thing where you plant bombs and stuff. There are no control options that I can see, and it uses Xbox prompts, even when using the keyboard, so you're going to be pushing random shit hoping that things will happen.

Well, that's what would happen, but since I'm nice I will tell you what the controls are so you don't have to guess:

enter = start
A = shoot
S = confirm
D = back/cancel

The pixel art is fine, but it doesn't have an option to force proper integer scaling, or any real options at all, so you will get uneven pixel sizing unless you are using a multiple of whatever the vertical resolution is (probably 240). There is an "upscaled" video option, but all it really seems to be is one of those nasty smeary filters that emulators use. After only a few minutes I can already tell that I like this game way more than Snow Bros.

BTW still no discounted bundle thingy on GOG. How strange. I'll buy these over there once that shows up. Maybe the GOG versions are fine and just the Steam ones are weird, but I don't know.

[RobHimself]

FWIW, I forwarded this thread to the Bitwave team on their Discord server. They are looking into it.

[Steven]

Precious information has been revealed! Spoiler thingy because several big pictures

Spoiler

^ looks like it doesn't always line up with the sprite properly after you are done moving around or something

I also have learned that loop 255 of Zero Wing is basically unplayable because enemy shots are so fast that it is like they use hitscan. lol good luck with that!

[mrsmr2]

I asked about the GoG bundle on Discord earlier. The answer was that it’s more complicated.

Tbh, it wasn’t easy to find the bundle on steam either without a direct link. GoG does bundles so hopefully they’ll get it sorted.

[Steven]

I messed around with the K Tiger extend settings, and no matter what I do it always says 50,000/150,000 every. Those are not the correct settings, so for now this version of the game can't be played for score. Doesn't matter if I reset the game, change the settings, change the settings, switch to Twin Cobra and back again, or any other combination. How frustrating.

It's getting very late now and I want to go to bed, but after I wake up I'm going to start working on a list of bugs/errors/potential improvements in each game to send to Bitwave to see if we can get these things all fixed.

[Klatrymadon]

The 'raw input' config menu for OutZone (the only one I've tried so far) is borderline impossible for me to use at the moment. Attempting to highlight a button to change highlights the one below it, and attempting to save a config seems to map every possible function to button '2'. The only thing that works correctly is restoring the default settings with the start button. I haven't heard anyone else complain about this issue, though, so perhaps there's something going on at my end?

Thankfully all I need to do to play the game comfortably is to turn on 30hz autofire, which is in another menu.

[MJR]

The 'raw input' config menu for OutZone (the only one I've tried so far) is borderline impossible for me to use at the moment. Attempting to highlight a button to change highlights the one below it, and attempting to save a config seems to map every possible function to button '2'. The only thing that works correctly is restoring the default settings with the start button. I haven't heard anyone else complain about this issue, though, so perhaps there's something going on at my end?

Thankfully all I need to do to play the game comfortably is to turn on 30hz autofire, which is in another menu.

The UI for button bindings were definitely.. peculiar. To make the button bindable, you have to press separate "binding" button, when it's pressed, you see it highlighted. Then while keeping it down, you have to press the button you have to bind it to. But wait! In order it to register, you have to erase its previous binding first

guys, not like this. Something as simple as joystick button binding should not require a manual to operate!

Since I've only criticized this, I should sandwich some positive feedback there as well, and add that I really liked the CRT emulation, really nice. And it ran very smooth and responsive too. And I love that there were 70 achievements!

It's just that Out Zone is God Tier game, so it should really handled with utmost attention and precision, at least in our eyes. That's why we whine so easily.

[FunktionJCB]

Since I've only criticized this, I should sandwich some positive feedback there as well, and add that I really liked the CRT emulation, really nice. And it ran very smooth and responsive too.

I just tried Out Zone for a few minutes, and I couldn't agree more.
I'm usually not a big fan of CRT filters, since most look like crap on my screen, but the one they used looks lovely. It looks very impressive, very natural, very appealing. Loved it!

And, the game was very smooth and responsive on my end.

---

It's clear that these releases have some problems on day one (Steven was awesome in detailing various things that should be fixed/improved), but despite this, my early impressions were very positive, and there's a rather solid foundation here to make this series of PC ports something truly great.
The filters look great, the various options/settings/QOL features are rather cool (even though some need minor fixes/tweaks), and it all looks very clean and responsive.
All, for less than 5€ each (with the bundle option). Great stuff.

And considering all the features included, my mind was blown when the Steam download for Out Zone was... 3 MB!

I'm hoping Bitwave may manage to fix and tweak most of the things reported, to make this a truly top notch effort.

[Udderdude]

Let's hope for some good patches. Seems like they're receptive to feedback.

[RobHimself]

Precious information has been revealed! Spoiler thingy because several big pictures

Spoiler

^ looks like it doesn't always line up with the sprite properly after you are done moving around or something

I also have learned that loop 255 of Zero Wing is basically unplayable because enemy shots are so fast that it is like they use hitscan. lol good luck with that!

Steven, I like looking at squiggles when it comes to framerate and frametimes.

It's over 5000:

Just made it to the final stage in Out Zone and I must say that this version of the game is weird. It is very different from my PCB, like as if my PCB is the complete version and this PC version uses a beta ROM revision. Didn't check the hard ROM, though, so I should do that and see how it goes.

You can change the "Location" under "Game" in that system menu. Mine was originally set to Europe but I switched over to Japan. Did that change anything for you?
Interesting how there's Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Korea regions for selection.

[BrianC]

You can change the "Location" under "Game" in that system menu. Mine was originally set to Europe but I switched over to Japan. Did that change anything for you?
Interesting how there's Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Korea regions for selection.

Oddly enough, the score setting changed to 70,000/200,000 on Tatsujin when I changed it back to 50,000/100,000 from 70,000/200,000. Same behavior on Twin Cobra too. Not only that, but the other extend settings are mixed up too. 50,000 sets Tatsujin to 100,000. I looked up the dipswitches for OutZone. The settings are listed incorrectly and there's no easy way of telling what they are actually set to. Should be every 300,000 by default. Zero Wing has the correct default score setting in the menu, but starting goes directly to game, so I can't tell if that's what it's actually set at.

I agree the games feel smooth and responsive, though. I used my F500 Elite with it (on latest firmware) and response feels nice and snappy.

[Jeneki]

There's a 4-game bundle on steam at 38% off: https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/2 ... tem_Ups_1/

One of the devs was nice enough to post a link to it in the Zero Wing discussion, as I can't get this bundle to show up using any searches or through the developer portal on steam.

[Steven]

Oddly enough, the score setting changed to 70,000/200,000 on Tatsujin when I changed it back to 50,000/100,000 from 70,000/200,000. Same behavior on Twin Cobra too. Not only that, but the other extend settings are mixed up too. 50,000 sets Tatsujin to 100,000. I looked up the dipswitches for OutZone. The settings are listed incorrectly and there's no easy way of telling what they are actually set to. Should be every 300,000 by default. Zero Wing has the correct default score setting in the menu, but starting goes directly to game, so I can't tell if that's what it's actually set at.

I agree the games feel smooth and responsive, though. I used my F500 Elite with it (on latest firmware) and response feels nice and snappy.

So the DIPs are just mislabeled, then. Okay, that's not too bad! I can work with that for now.

You can change the "Location" under "Game" in that system menu. Mine was originally set to Europe but I switched over to Japan. Did that change anything for you?
Interesting how there's Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Korea regions for selection.

It was originally in English, but I switched it to Japan and now it's in Japanese. I checked my instruction manual and it doesn't mention the other regions at all in the DIP switches, probably because I have the Japanese manual.

One other thing I noticed with these releases is that the difficulty seems to default to something other than B. B is the normal difficulty. Custom mode also seems to default to on, oddly.

Well, it is now time to do the test that I am most curious about: will Out Zone stay in sync with the PCB? There is only one way to find out!

Edit: nope. They desynced almost immediately. PC runs noticeably faster, at least at 60Hz. Still not sure what the refresh rate on the PCB is, although I think it actually has 2 different ones for some reason, each running in a different resolution or something like that.

Oh yeah, and I entered my name in the high score name entry as STEVEN and while it does save the table (yay!) it shows up as ?TEVEN instead. Not sure how that happened.

The 'raw input' config menu for OutZone (the only one I've tried so far) is borderline impossible for me to use at the moment. Attempting to highlight a button to change highlights the one below it, and attempting to save a config seems to map every possible function to button '2'. The only thing that works correctly is restoring the default settings with the start button. I haven't heard anyone else complain about this issue, though, so perhaps there's something going on at my end?

It's working okay for me. Maybe check in Steam's settings to see if it's overriding it with Steam settings or something.