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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:22 pm 



Joined: 03 Mar 2020
Posts: 282
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Really makes you think. :?

Edit: Video of super secret ending!


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:35 pm 


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Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Strikers 1945. One I've only ever played a few credits of on MAME.

Got the Switch port and have been moving between it and MAME. Tough old game.

I credit fed through it on MAME (have disabled continues on the Switch version in the options) and those later levels look insane. Not sure if I am up to it. But I'll see how I progress.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:34 pm 



Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 55
Played some Mushihimesama today on a whim, and got the 1cc on Novice Original. There's certainly a bit of "lol novice mode" to be had about using that as an accomplishment, but for several years now, I've just been unable to get it together and get past Stage 4 or so on one credit, so to be able to go deathless until Stage 5 and coast to the clear is an encouraging sign on how far my bullet hell skills have come this year.

(On that note, still playing Blue Wish Resurrection Plus; I've gotten the Heaven clear with Guard OFF easy, but Original is definitely kicking my ass a lot right now).

The other game I played today for the first time was Armed Police Batrider, solely because my mind kept mashing up the back half of the Stage 1 theme with Geometric City from Raystorm, so I wanted to have a listen to see what it actually sounded like. Mostly just did a couple runs of Training route to get my feet wet; even on that difficulty, it feels like I'd have to take a look at rank management strats to keep things under control if I go further with it lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:51 pm 


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I'd really like Futari's novice mode to have the option to disable auto bombing. That would provide a proper stepping stone to trying Normal/arcade modes.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:18 am 



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 280
NuclearPotato wrote:
I temporarily put my long term goal of getting a 1-ALL on Dodonpachi to the side, ........

I though I would just list the difficulty of the game w.r.t. the ship types (mostly for 2-loop but should apply reasonably well to 1-loop too). The difficulty is arranged from easiest to hardest:
A-L
C-L
B-L
C-S
B-S
A-S

Slightly unsure whether the last two spots between B-S and C-S should be switched or not.

Also, perhaps one other thing to point out is that with, A-L in particular, there is a certain tendency for one to get "slip deaths" [where you "accidentally" bump into a bullet moving left or right much more than intended]. This is why one thing that is useful (at few points) is to do diagonal movement. That is, get to the bottom of screen and move left or right while having down pressed permanently.

===================

Lethe wrote:
Really makes you think. :?

So this is what the game does when you gameover and destroy a boss [i.e. finish a level] at the same time? Does not seem intentional.

Strikers-2 has something similar in that sense that if you die almost exactly when you destroy a boss then you don't lose a life. Seems players use it to reduce "rank"? It does not seem to make a big difference though (but probably a small difference?). Not sure to what extent that was intentional or unintentional though.

===================

I might also mention what I am playing right now for the past many months. Essentially trying to build the Strikers-2 run that I talked about in the game's hi-score thread. These days, I play about anything from 15---60min every day [except for the occasional 3 or 4 days in a month when I am trying to piece together a long section] but I do try to play quite regularly.


Don't think I will be able to complete this by the end of the year though, but if I keep playing regularly (as I have been) then I should be quite close to it by then. I wanted to make a video of it. So can someone explain the process in an easy way (that is, the software to use etc.). As I understood previously, first one can either:
(i) First save the replay and then convert it to video.
(ii) Make the video while playing.

I think I will try the first option, because my computer won't be able to handle the second one I think. Probably learning to save and play replays shouldn't be difficult. But then, what software do people here use to convert to video?


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:16 pm 



Joined: 03 Mar 2020
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wiNteR wrote:
So this is what the game does when you gameover and destroy a boss [i.e. finish a level] at the same time? Does not seem intentional.

Right. It only works on the TLB though. Nearly always the case in Cave games that bosses won't die if you game over first, but this one is different. Although it's a little disappointing I couldn't find a way to break the game more.
wiNteR wrote:
I think I will try the first option, because my computer won't be able to handle the second one I think. Probably learning to save and play replays shouldn't be difficult. But then, what software do people here use to convert to video?

If you don't want to do any real editing, here's the way I do it:
1. Record an inp by starting MAME with "[game] -record [filename].inp" (command line, shortcut, batch script etc). Do the same with -playback to playback.
2. Ctrl+Shift+F12 during playback to render an AVI
3. Use ffmpeg to nearest-neighbor upscale to 1080p, add padding to the sides and re-encode to MKV
The reason to do the last step is because if the video has a "non-HD" resolution, YouTube will heavily re-encode it and lock it to 30fps. Padding to 16:9 is for the same reason, to make sure the file is only minimally interfered with. This is the ffmpeg template I've been using:
Code:
ffmpeg -i "[filename].avi" -vcodec libx264 -acodec copy -preset medium -crf 18 -pix_fmt yuv420p -vf "scale=1920:1080:flags=neighbor:force_original_aspect_ratio=decrease,pad=1920:1080:(ow-iw)/2:(oh-ih)/2,setsar=1" "[filename].mkv"


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:34 pm 


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wiNteR wrote:
I though I would just list the difficulty of the game w.r.t. the ship types (mostly for 2-loop but should apply reasonably well to 1-loop too). The difficulty is arranged from easiest to hardest


Your list appears to be backwards with respect to a 1-All clear of DDP. The Laser types benefit from extra movement speed when lasering, piercing when lasering, a larger laser aura, slightly extra damage per frame when lasering, and minimal laser width/power loss when dying. These are generally useful for scoring, and for beating Hibachi who is a massive part of the difficulty in a 2-ALL clear since bombs don't deal damage, but these advantages generally don't carry much weight if you just want a 1-ALL clear.

In a 1-ALL clear, you can deal a ton of damage via bombs to all 6 bosses you have to face, and the difference in laser damage isn't super low with the Shot type ships compared to their counterparts, so it's not like bosses will take tremendously longer. The real benefits to reap from the Shot type ships are their incredible spread, which makes learning stages very easy compared to using a Laser type ship. Add to that the fact that you lose minimal shot spread with a Shot type ship, and the fact that your shot alone can clear most enemies (especially with B-S or A-S's concentrated barrages) and it's definitely easier to learn a 1-ALL with a Shot type ship.

B-S for instance can basically use shot alone on 90% of targets in a stage including fairly big enemies and get extremely respectable kill times, with the laser only coming out for the occasional miniboss or the end of stage bosses.

If you die on a boss your laser gets rather thin, but it doesn't lose much actual damage and bosses are plenty big enough to hit with, so Shot type ships still have the advantage here, where maintaining shot width is very handy for dealing with stage enemies.

For a 1-ALL clear, the difficulty of learning to clear with each ship would be something like:

C-S (strong, easy to use)
B-S (actually better than C-S if you invest the time to learn it due to massive width, frontal damage, spread, and speed, but more difficult to learn)
A-S (faster than B-S but limited spread
C-L / B-L (good, but their advantages apply more if you're at the skill level where you can loop the game)
A-L (very thin width, mainly used for chaining or for its speed if you're comfortable with tight dodges)
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:10 pm 


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For a low scoring 1-ALL, yeah C-S or B-S are going to be the easiest probably. Honestly it almost doesn't even matter because you have so many bombs and lives that you can just cheese the second half of the game.

For a 2-ALL, C-L is the clear and obvious winner, born out by the hi score thread here and just by the sheer number of clears on youtube, etc.

A-L and B-L are higher scoring but unless you are going for 700 Million and want way, way more complicated routes and execution, there is really no reason to use them. Nobody around here is doing anything close to that so if you are using those types you are basically just making it harder on yourself.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:35 pm 



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 280
When I played first loop with B-shot [the clear run was 1miss no bomb clear for first loop], it was clear that it was noticeably harder than A-laser (talking about first loop only) ....... relatively speaking. Maybe I didn't use any bombs so that's why I felt this way. But the difference was there and it was fairly noticeable, even on first loop.

The thing with laser types is that boss duration for all bosses is reduced by a good number of seconds. I think that this makes a difference. But anyway, I haven't gotten clear of first loop with all of the types, so maybe my opinion might change if I get that.

==============

Regarding C-L for loop-2 being easier, I agree that some people would feel this way. I don't think the difference between A-L and C-L should be big, but my impression is that B-L should be bit harder than both. But I don't think that the number of clears with C-L might necessarily be a good indicator (reason in next paragraph).

What is likely true I think is that tlb attacks (in particular, the last phase) are probably somewhat easier [difficult to say by how much] with C-L than A-L due to finer movement. But I haven't played with C-L, so I can't confirm first hand, but it seems somewhat likely. It is possible that some of the players chose C-L for that reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:22 pm 


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I've played the second loop with all 6 types and C-L just seems much easier than the others. It trivializes and shuts down a lot of threats quickly due to the spread shot + full power laser (like all L types) brings down the bigger stuff quickly. With A or B yes you get increased speed but it also seems to me you have a much riskier route trying to take down everything before they fill the screen with crap.

My routes were way less developed for those other types and I mostly just played them to see if there was some sort of advantage I was missing, but if there is I never found it. The increased speed is almost a liability, especially with A-L like you mentioned,

The S shot types are all terrible in the second loop IMO. Bosses all last much longer and the shot->laser transition times are really annoying. The 2-6 boss through Hibachi is far more difficult. Hibachi gets like a full additional cycle of attacks in due to reduced laser damage. It's already a nightmare as is, but this is just sadistic.

For a newer player going for a 1-ALL you can get away with just using shot for nearly the entire game outside of the bosses and just bomb wherever you get in trouble. Seriously, it's ridiculous how many bombs you have in play when just trying for a 1-ALL.

Bombs From stages: 1 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 7
Bombs From lives (assuming 2 score extends + 1 secret extend): 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 30
Total = 37 bombs for the first loop.

Also if you die you are still in the fight since your shot power doesn't go down to nothing.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:49 pm 



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 280
pegboy wrote:
The S shot types are all terrible in the second loop IMO. Bosses all last much longer and the shot->laser transition times are really annoying.

Yes, this is possibly another factor which weakens the shot types against bosses further.

I believe that once the laser starts focusing on an enemy it takes a certain amount of time before it gets to its max damage output (per second). I think that when one losses focus on a single enemy beyond a certain duration the damage output of laser resets to some basic level (actually, it would be good if someone can confirm this). However, I am not certain how the detailed mechanics of that work exactly though [as in if one switches from one enemy to other, rough guess would be that reset might still apply].

At any rate, the transition times just add to the effect in previous paragraph, because one has to shift between focus and unfocus mode during boss fights.



Edit:
I should probably mention that I am not sure about the part I wrote above, namely:
"I believe that once the laser starts focusing on an enemy it takes a certain amount of time before it gets to its max damage output (per second)."

I remember reading it long time ago, but I can't seem to find any info about this. So I am not certain whether this is true or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:47 am 



Joined: 26 Jan 2015
Posts: 483
Location: Bakersfield, Ca
Took a shmup break for a month or so, but been playing R-Type Delta the last couple days. Man is this good.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:26 am 



Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 55
You know, I wasn't expecting one of my posts to trigger a whole DDP discussion in here since the last time I looked in this thread lol. I do appreciate difficulty chat though, and will keep it in mind as I come back to the run. For now though, I've set my sight on another goal, albeit one from the same company: Deathsmiles. It had been a while since I touched it, but I guess with October a few scant hours away, the urge to play something Halloween-y hit me, so I gave it a few runs today, just to see how far I could get.

I've managed to hit Jitterbug by my most recent run. The 1cc is far closer than I gave myself credit for, so I guess I know what I'm working towards this week. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:46 pm 



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I think I'm developing a talent for this kind of thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:28 pm 


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Now that's dying in the line of duty. :cool: Will add to my ST's upcoming revision if that's ok?
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:11 pm 



Joined: 03 Mar 2020
Posts: 282
Yeah, of course. Realized I didn't reply to you last time... I was thinking it might be interesting to do some research into what's going on with the enemy spawn timings. I know that leaving dudes alive delays other spawns (presumably letting them leave makes it take longer for them to exit memory than killing them), but the details of it are arcane to me. It can't be anything complicated, so maybe there's hope of working it out without a disassembly?


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:43 pm 


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I haven't played a shmup in almost 3 years (since participating in Shmup Slam 2), so I'm catching up on some of the games I've missed since then. Mostly thinking about spending some time with Crimzon Clover World Explosion for now, that arrange mode seems pretty cool.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:30 pm 


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Location: Green Hell
I'm playing 1941 on Capcom Arcade Stadium Steam version.

Funnily the top spot on the leaderboard is someone with 14 million points. Wish they made a video. Best I've seen on the internet is about 12 million.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:42 pm 


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https://youtu.be/x2yDkGW5vZI

15M by Koisumi. Plasmo has a very useful high scoring replays topic in the strategy forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:16 pm 


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Rastan78 wrote:
https://youtu.be/x2yDkGW5vZI

15M by Koisumi. Plasmo has a very useful high scoring replays topic in the strategy forum.

thanks bro


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:18 pm 


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DEAD END CITY

Finally picked it up, absolutely worth the asking price. Easy to get into, great gameplay loop, nice pixel art, and a metal ost.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:34 am 


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Radiant Silvergun on switch.

Did the Saturn version have a useful training mode? I can't remember. I know it had level select, but here you can get to training and set your weapon levels to what they would be in a real run so it is super useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:08 am 



Joined: 10 Oct 2022
Posts: 6
Location: Tokyo
I broke my finger so I can't really play shmups now. Bummer. So recently I've been into "As Dusk Falls".

But before that, I was really getting into "Blue Revolver"


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:36 am 


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Finally started getting to level 7 in a single credit in Einhänder. I swear, this damn game is so random! It feels more like speed running with the sheer amount of RNG that has to be accounted for during a run... especially the bosses (Gustav and Dürer in particular just seem to love doing whatever the hell they damn well please).
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:57 pm 



Joined: 09 May 2022
Posts: 87
Shienryu, again, cos it's ace.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:24 am 


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Kiken wrote:
Finally started getting to level 7 in a single credit in Einhänder. I swear, this damn game is so random! It feels more like speed running with the sheer amount of RNG that has to be accounted for during a run... especially the bosses (Gustav and Dürer in particular just seem to love doing whatever the hell they damn well please).


This is why I could never really sink the time into this game. There's a lot I like about Einhander, but the RNG is a killer. RNG on some weapons, plus bosses. It's just too much for a 45 minute horizontal checkpoint crawler without a proper shield or some way to cover your mistakes.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:04 am 


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Got deep back into Aleste Collection. I love this cart, it's become one of my favourite things that I own. Not even among games, just things. I've been going hard at the challenge mode again, I've managed to get myself into the top 25 on Switch. I think reaching top 20 is all but inevitable at this point, but it looks like things become very steep after that. I don't know if top 15 is going to happen, those revenge bullet modes are borderline impossible to no-miss. I see Subcons up at around 12th, who I believe posts here. I can't imagine what that took.

CloudyMusic wrote:
I haven't played a shmup in almost 3 years (since participating in Shmup Slam 2), so I'm catching up on some of the games I've missed since then. Mostly thinking about spending some time with Crimzon Clover World Explosion for now, that arrange mode seems pretty cool.


That arrange is the official main version of the game as far as I'm concerned. Notably improves on the arcade base imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:31 pm 


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Location: Area 1 Mostly
Digging back into Mushihimesama Original with S-Power after getting my trivia answer in the questions thread (because obviously, knowing that I grabbed a bomb with specific expressive intent is essential to my gameplay experience :P).
Right now my goal is to own Stage 3, since that's where the gloves comes off.

I'm a bit gripey about the practice mode in the Steam version; it's quite well-featured, but not being able to pick a specific sub-section hits Stage 3 particularly hard given that there's no midboss checkpoint.
Ah well, in part that's a question of shifting my mindset away from aggressively restarting mistakes and taking the individual per-section wins as and where I can get them. Savestates have definitely spoiled me for this.

Up until now I've been trying to no-bomb until the 1up section, where I'd traditionally use one to guarantee the side-switch after taking out one set of turrets, but shifting that to the section before with all the zako spam and learning to point-blank the AoE head early has made my route way more consistent. Couple that with bombing the arm sections in the middle of the stage, and it's starting to look manageable at long last :)


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:13 am 


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Lander wrote:
Ah well, in part that's a question of shifting my mindset away from aggressively restarting mistakes and taking the individual per-section wins as and where I can get them. Savestates have definitely spoiled me for this.


I feel like the availability of savestates in emulation have spoiled gamers in general. While it's helpful for figuring out individual tricky spots, it's important to remember to do full runs so you get used to both the adrenaline from playing a lengthy run that then teeters on a knife edge between victory and defeat, and also so you learn to recognize that even if a run looks "bad" that you can still pull off a win and potentially use the credit to learn or refine your technique on certain attacks.

It sounds like you'll nab the 1CC soon enough though!
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:20 am 


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My Futari 1CC actually came on a run that I was about to throw away. I was down to zero bombs and zero lives and actually tried to suicide by going up into a bullet on one of the stage 4 boss's last patterns. The bullet was moving diagonally, so I missed it and figured, "why not just beat the boss at this point?"

Fast forward to a second score extend and the stage 5 hidden life, and I had enough resources to beat the game. The moral of the story is to never throw away a run, no matter how bad. Always play through the credit.
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