PS4 or Switch

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spmbx
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by spmbx »

usually:
ps4 - performance
switch - convenience

Convenience wins for me. Or i just skip the title completely, there is too much to play in too little time as it is.
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Rastan78
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by Rastan78 »

MachineAres 1CC wrote:I think that's stretching a bit. They're just emulated ports with Kids mode and save states added, not nearly the quality M2 is capable of and have done on many other games (as you mentioned, Fantasy Zone and ShotTriggers.) I love M2 as much as the next guy, but people seem to go out of their way to praise them just for showing up at all when they didn't do anything particular to deserve it in the case of these Thunder Force ports.
I do think the TF ports hold up really well. And of course they're emulated like almost all of retro stuff now bc this is going to be the most practical way to get total accuracy in this day and age. Especially for $7.99

For TFIV a lot of people would say the Saturn version was previously the best bc the game plays better without the slowdown of the original MD release. You can toggle on/off slowdown on the Switch, but also it doesn't have the poor audio quality of the Saturn version. You can even toggle having an extra sound channel so the music doesn't cut out when a powerup is announced.

Point values were removed where it would cause super easy infinite milking which is possible on both MD and Saturn. This means leaderboards could actually be useful without resorting to speedrun style like they did with Aleste collection. You can also choose the ship from TF3 once you clear the game adding replay value.

The cool new thing on TFAC are the extra ships. Especially the one that cribs Image Fight's speed change thruster damage mechanic. More points are rewarded for using it so by assigning autofire to speed change (which is an option) you get a whole new way to approach the game. IIRC you do have to clear the game first to get the extra ships.

Both games are extremely responsive and are probably among the fastest on Switch, especially for emulated stuff. I think they save a frame over most of the other M2 Switch stuff and play like Shot Triggers games on PS4 at 3 frames. I could be wrong there, but I can't imagine anyone complaining about input lag. Compared to the ACA games on Switch there's obviously faster response.

Not to mention there was a patch loooooong after release to fix a minor graphical issue with TFIV. Like BIL has said, according to Digital Eclipse even games with totally busted controls just can't be patched after a certain time. It's not worth it.

Not really sure what gadgets could be added on these that would really matter. Boss life bars might have been kinda nice? IMO the right choices were made on these with no need to go overboard with extra stuff.
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BrianC
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by BrianC »

Don't quote me on this, but I was under the impression that the Gotch titles with the sharp/smooth filtering have less lag than the ones handled by whoever did the ACA NeoGeo games (both on PS4 and Switch). I haven't found a test to confirm this, though.
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BIL
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by BIL »

Offhand, I can't pick up on any latency differences between ACA NeoGeo and plain ACA stuff, by Gotch or otherwise (PS4). I do know that Gotch-developed ACA titles tend to have an active latency reduction feature (check Preference Options, under Game Settings) - much like the one found in M2's ShotTriggers (in both cases, it's switched to ON by default). I could see that making a difference, particularly on displays with appreciable lag, which this feature is supposed to counteract according to Garegga 2016's manual.

On the subject of amateur frame counters, I've found some of them to be seriously off. One source was claiming Belt Action Collection (PS4)'s Final Fight had an obscene 12f on Guy's standing jab... another, seemingly much better-run (same guys who covered the recent Saturn Tribute fiasco IIRC) pegged it at a more realistic-sounding 7f. Either way, PS4 infinites sync fine with ShmupMAME (1f, hacked). So I don't automatically put as much stock in internet numbers as I used to.

EDIT: doh, my bad - it was actually Capcom Arcade Stadium's Final Fight rated @ 7f, in the Kimagre link above.
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Rastan78
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by Rastan78 »

BIL wrote:EDIT: doh, my bad - it was actually Capcom Arcade Stadium's Final Fight rated @ 7f, in the Kimagre link above.
That wouldn't surprise me. Giga Wing felt like it was underwater when I tried out the collection at release. Wouldn't be surprised if it had 7 frames or shudder to think maybe even more. Belt scroller feels good tho.

One little niggle concerning Gotch vs Hamster vs M2 battle of the heavyweight port masters: PS4 ACA Darius by Gotch runs at 60 hz whereas the M2 version from Cozmic Collection is adjusted to simulate the slightly slower speed of the PCB. Something like 59.94 I think. It's a minor difference where levels might last 5 or 10 seconds longer at the correct speed. A much bigger deal if you're talking about something like Irem M72 hardware for example.

Kinda made me wonder if Gotch has a tendency to run everything at 60 hz and not adjust to accurate game speed like M2 and Hamster do?

Edit: According to shmup junkie, Giga Wing does have at least 7 frames of lag on CAS. Gnarly, bro. Surprisingly he said the DC version is almost just as bad at 6 to 7 frames.
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BIL
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by BIL »

Rastan78 wrote:
BIL wrote:EDIT: doh, my bad - it was actually Capcom Arcade Stadium's Final Fight rated @ 7f, in the Kimagre link above.
That wouldn't surprise me. Giga Wing felt like it was underwater when I tried out the collection at release. Wouldn't be surprised if it had 7 frames or shudder to think maybe even more. Belt scroller feels good tho.
The CAS STGs definitely feel sluggish to me (on PS4) - I could see going for basic 1CCs, but I don't get the shoot-for-the-moon confidence I do with ACA, let alone the actively lag-reduced ShotTriggers.

Other CAS stuff like Strider and Final Fight, maybe it's just decades of latent muscle memory, but they feel a lot less objectionable to me. Strictly offhand, I put that down to the pinpoint-precise nature of STGs... constantly microtapping in eight directions while dealing with threats on all sides is gonna shine a spotlight on added lag, in a way relatively linear affairs won't.

From very basic day 1 testing, I noticed my FF boss infinites weren't as consistent on Stadium. I could complete them, but I couldn't seem to avoid throwing a few extra hits on the turn-arounds. On Belt Action and ShmupMAME, I'd only ever see the one mandatory turning hit (the elbow, in Guy's case). Totally unscientific, but it gave me the feeling something might be off WRT input processing. I'm definitely sticking with BAC for the clears I wanna go for this year, regardless.

(I notice the title screens on all the Belt Action games have updated copyrights, versus the unaltered ones of CAS - don't know if that means anything)
One little niggle concerning Gotch vs Hamster vs M2 battle of the heavyweight port masters: PS4 ACA Darius by Gotch runs at 60 hz whereas the M2 version from Cozmic Collection is adjusted to simulate the slightly slower speed of the PCB. Something like 59.94 I think. It's a minor difference where levels might last 5 or 10 seconds longer at the correct speed. A much bigger deal if you're talking about something like Irem M72 hardware for example.
I notice most (possibly all) of the recent ACA Namcos have had "Reproduce Accurate Game Speed" toggles, IIRC first seen in last year's ACA Super Cobra (whose board is a tick beyond 60hz; enabling accurate speed will get you a bit of scrolling chop, as expected). And now ACA XEXEX and Gunnail have the PCB/60hz toggle, too - I hope it becomes more of a standard feature, going forward. ACA's always a bit piecemeal by nature, endearingly so for the most part... :mrgreen:

Would love a 60hz option for M72, IDGAF Image I grew up on R-Types (PS1) where the otherwise meticulous porters just went "open wide console boys!" and unleashed the full NTSC fury. :lol: I was messing around with forced 60hz Ninja Spirit in MAME the other day, it's definitely a bit scary at first but nothing that can't be adjusted to. Oof, sub-60hz hardware was a mistake.
Kinda made me wonder if Gotch has a tendency to run everything at 60 hz and not adjust to accurate game speed like M2 and Hamster do?
Something I find interesting is comparing Gotch's ACA MagMax (from ages ago) with the much more recent ACA Seicross. Contemporary Nichibutsus, with very similar line-scrolling "floor" effects... while Seicross has the scrolling hitch I've come to expect, ACA MagMax is impeccably smooth. Going by the Darius example, it wouldn't surprise me if Gotch does indeed just sync to 60hz. I'm in two minds on it - I really hate scrolling chop, but with something like Raiden Fighters Aces that lets you choose PCB or 60hz speed, it's the former every time (the RF series' surgical yet frenetic medal/fairy stunts really not needing a speedup).
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scrilla4rella
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by scrilla4rella »

PS4. But that's just me. If I see a good shmup with an eshop sale then I might pick it up. There are some Switch exclusives. Gynoug, Gley Lancer and Thunder Forces IV/AC (thanks M2) makes for a hard hitting combo. Also picked up some of the Cave games just because
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clairobskur
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by clairobskur »

scrilla4rella wrote:PS4. But that's just me. If I see a good shmup with an eshop sale then I might pick it up. There are some Switch exclusives. Gynoug, Gley Lancer and Thunder Forces IV/AC (thanks M2) makes for a hard hitting combo. Also picked up some of the Cave games just because
Gynoug and Gley Lancer are available for the ps4. there is even a 30% discount on the two games right now in europe
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scrilla4rella
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by scrilla4rella »

clairobskur wrote:Gynoug and Gley Lancer are available for the ps4. there is even a 30% discount on the two games right now in europe
Good to know, I might double dip so I can play with my PS4 stick
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Marc
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by Marc »

Did they update PS4 Capcom Arcade to not suck yet? Actually turned out pretty well on Switch in the end.
XBL & Switch: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell
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BIL
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Re: PS4 or Switch

Post by BIL »

Still shit AFAIK, I live in faint hope. :lol:
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