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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:50 pm 



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
I think this is incredible ROM pricing and would love to support it. However, if there is still lag on PS4 and they aren't going to patch it out, I hate to send the message that consumers will accept this type of product (again, and again, and again..)

Broken games = unacceptable at any price.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:09 pm 



Joined: 21 Sep 2021
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For $2 apiece, I grabbed Varth, Daimakaimura, Trojan and some others. Dynasty Wars immediately struck me as super fun. Sort of a combo between beat em up and shmup gameplay.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:30 pm 


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Looks like you can get games a la carte on Steam as well; methinks I'll finally pull the trigger on a couple of things.

Out of curiosity, was there any sort of official announcement that individual games could be bought? None of the game news sites I normally browse have mentioned it.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:13 pm 


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I saw it on the @capcom_arcade twitter: https://twitter.com/capcom_arcade/statu ... 55555?s=20

They didn't say anything about Steam or PS4, but those are good news as well! I wonder how the games perform on those platforms (did they patch it there?)
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:13 am 


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Steam players, can anyone confirm if in fact you can't no longer extract the roms to play them on MAME or elsewhere? I still don't seem to be able to launch Arcade Stadium. I blame Resident Evil.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:48 am 


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Took them long enough to have the games be bought individually.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:53 am 



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Searchlike wrote:
Steam players, can anyone confirm if in fact you can't no longer extract the roms to play them on MAME or elsewhere? I still don't seem to be able to launch Arcade Stadium. I blame Resident Evil.


I got progear to see if it worked. I managed to extract files with REtool.exe, but it looks like almost all the data is bundled together in one binary file for each region (two big files at 16,117 KB each, which I assume are for the EN and JP roms), with a couple of extra files too (8 in total). All the extracted files have names with long strings of numbers, and the file structure does not match mame.
I haven't tried poking around inside the binary files, but maybe they could be manipulated to work with mame using something like the script for the street fighter anniversary collection roms (it would need a bit of effort and it's a bit too much for my ability).

fwiw, someone had a similar problem with progear 5 months ago, so I'm not sure if you could ever extract the progear rom and have it work as is in mame previously either https://www.reddit.com/r/MAME/comments/ ... dium_roms/
maybe other games might work but no guarantees (I extracted 1943 when it launched on steam - it almost matched the mame file structure, but mame said it had files missing, and I gave up after that)


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:59 am 


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:( Thanks for your time, I appreciate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:23 am 



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So, just to confirm as long as there's talk here - there was never confirmation of an update which improved input response on PS4, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:48 am 


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I recently updated my initially negative review if anyone wants a quick summary of my experience, but while I'm at it I'll toss up a few thoughts here about the three shmups I picked up and hadn't played in some time:

- I'd only ever previously put much time into the Dreamcast port of Giga Wing, so the slowdown caught me off guard at first; not that I'm complaining, mind you, as I'll take any help I can get. :P The slightly nicer presentation is welcome too, as the first GW still has a rough but welcoming "vibe" about it that makes it my favorite of the three (though if I ever get the chance to play a good port of Generations that might change), though I do miss the lack of enemy collision in the sequels, which encouraged you to play more aggressively.

- Progear wasted absolutely no time in reminding me how utterly awful I am at it; I have absolutely abysmal timing for killing enemies when they can cancel bullets, which not only means my score is laughable (I've only made it to the first extend once so far), but that there's lots more stuff for me to (fail to) dodge in a game that doesn't exactly lack it right from the get-go. Back when I first tried this on MAME I had a considerably easier time using the narrow fast guy, and that hasn't changed - neither, for that matter, has the fact that the story-based "affection" system with the co-pilot is one of the goofiest things Cave ever came up with. :P

- Its scoring and extend systems can be draconian and bullet visibility can be uneven, but I'll be danged if 19XX doesn't handily retain its evergreen spot in my top 25; part of it is admittedly nostalgia, as it's one of the very few shmups I encountered and played "in the wild" back in the day, but the explosion-tastic presentation never fails to entertain and the lock-on shot ensures you never feel too underpowered even after eating a stray bullet. I like using all three planes but for some reason always seem to do best with the Mosquito, another odd holdover from my MAME days.

Was tempted to pick up 1944 and US Navy but ended up passing, as my (admittedly limited) memory of the former in particular isn't terribly flattering - if Dimahoo eventually shows up I'll definitely snag that, maybe Eco Fighters as well, if it includes a separate rapid fire button like the rest of the games here do (and the PS2 collections don't).
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:02 pm 


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Although you have to do the heavy-lifting of switching the 'shot' button to the shoulder, Forgotten Worlds is great with twin-sticks. SO MANY sections can now be handled with reflexes rather than memorization. While it makes the game considerably easier, it's also considerably more fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:31 pm 


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Jeneki wrote:
Not sure if there are any Section Z fans here, but is the difficulty jacked way up in this collection? (...)

Some examples: The section E boss consistently dies quickly in mame/mister, but drags on for quite a while in this collection. In the upward scrolling sections, the up/down moving laser cannons appear to take 2 hits instead of 1, almost never dying before they can pass under me (usually they should die before they pass me once). Closer to the section J boss, the wall cannons shoot far more often and in the final stretch there's way more enemies, gets pretty intense here.

MJR wrote:
On the international version of Section Z, the first level boss has vastly reduced hitpoints, while on the japanese version it's bullet sponge. This applies on Capcom arcade cabinet.

On Capcom arcade stadium, the japanese and english version play the same, so apparently they have mistakenly using the same rom file. So the lvl 1 boss is a bullet sponge in both versions.


I'm currently playing Section Z on CAS and I can confirm it still has this problem. I didn't know the JP rom was so much harder (but also more fun IMO!! at least up until section Q where it gets kind of crazy). The "E" boss now puts up an intense fight (you can still speed kill it sometimes though, but it's hard) and the lasers on "G" taking 2 hits make that section interesting, but later on they're a nightmare when they mix them up with more enemies. The EN rom should not play like the JP rom nonetheless, despite my preferences. I may report it if I figure out how.

BTW, I just found this "neat shortcut" in the pinball section :D
-----

I also checked Progear and didn't notice any difference between the "harder?" CAS's EN rom Vs MAME's EN rom. But I haven't played that game enough yet to really know. Can anyone confirm this?
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:12 pm 


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I need to share this!! hahahaha (I love the game, go buy it! The leaderboards need you. Only 3 people looped the game on Switch, and no one on Steam I think)

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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:08 am 


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wow. I didn't know Section Z AC had a pinball themed stage. Crazy! I have a feeling Moon Patrol was a big influence on that game with the similar stage progression and the funky music.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:17 am 


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SPM wrote:
The leaderboards need you.

Some games in particular are barren, yeah. I think it's mostly due to the minimum score. For example, as a newbie to Commando it took me over an hour of attempts to get the needed score.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:22 pm 


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Giga Wing feels pretty good on the steam version. The intro tutorial text box flickers, but I disable v-sync and messed around with other options and the game feels pretty precise and very playable. I picked up the Evolution pack with 19XX and Progear but I imagine most of my time will be with Giga Wing playing for them high scores on the leaderboard.

BareKnuckleRoo (or anyone), do you know of any regional differences between US and Japan roms of Giga Wing? I'd prefer to play with muh story scenes if possible! I can't remember if the leaderboards are split by region; I seem to recall them being the same.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:33 pm 


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I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED.

I can't speak for differences in the Dreamcast port (the English version removes the Japanese version's voice acting :( ), but as far as the CPS2 arcade release go, the US and JP versions appear to be identical in terms of difficulty. If there's a difference, it feels negligible. Also note that there's a difficulty slider in the test menu options that also doesn't appear to actually change the game difficulty much, if at all (I 1CC'd it at the max difficulty settings once to compare on the JP version with no issues, didn't notice any significant or glaring differences). It's possible it's just there because it's in every CPS2 game, and not every CPS2 game actually is programmed to use the difficulty slider?

Note that the US version starts at difficulty 2 and the JP version at difficulty 4, but it looks like this might be just how CPS2 games are configured by default? It's also how Progear is set.

tl;dr, play the English version, if you can beat that then there's no reason not to assume you could play the JP version of Giga Wing equally well.

re: Progear, I've heard that the US version is slightly easier than the JP version but I haven't noticed a major difference. I suspect Progear on the US version's 2 difficulty is closely equivalent to the 4 on the JP version? There is however a MASSIVE difference if you turn the difficulty up to the max of 8; bullet speeds are far faster and it becomes incredibly hard to bullet cancel and take advantage of the scoring system.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:29 pm 


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One thing that is [edit:NOT] worth mentioning about US Progear is that the game removes any loop requirements [ACTUALLY NOT TRUE] and allows you to credit-feed through the game. I -think- it might remove the checkpoints in loop 2 [LOL I DON'T KNOW], but it's been many years since I've credit fed through Progear [OBVIOUSLY]. I feel like I would have remembered having to do all the stages over and over again at the time.

EDIT: THIS POST IS TOTAL BULLSHIT BEFORE THIS LINE. DISREGARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

==========================

Thank you for your input! I figured you'd be the guy to ask. I got to the Stranger fight on stage 4 as Ruby after a few credits (US ver); I have never 1cc'd the game (spending way more time with the sequel) but I would like to. I was playing Isha for a while just to be special but her ship just might not be for me due to how hard it is to kill things/bosses with it.
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Last edited by EmperorIng on Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:19 pm 


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Quote:
One thing that is worth mentioning about US Progear is that the game removes any loop requirements and allows you to credit-feed through the game. I -think- it might remove the checkpoints in loop 2


You mean the US CPS2 version? I don't remember either of these being changed, but then I usually play the Japanese version and haven't touched Progear in ages (I've reached 2-3 in both versions iirc). I know the normal 1-All ending and the 2-All endings are both in English as you can see here: http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/f/pg.htm What triggers each one must've changed from one version to the next. In the JP ver it's simply 1-All vs 2-All ending. Will test tonight to confirm.

edit: if it's impossible to 1-All the US version then there wouldn't be 1-Alls posted on the scoreboard I'd imagine, is it possible you're misremembering? Or were you referring specifically to this rerelease being changed?

Quote:
I have never 1cc'd [Giga Wing] (spending way more time with the sequel) but I would like to.


Easiest 1CC is with Stuck. He's the second fastest, has a spreadshot, has an easy stage order, and is the only character with a piercing/AOE attack that makes large clusters of enemies or multisegmented bosses a breeze. He also gets a tremendous damage boost any time you reflect because it's easy to get in close with and hit small enemies like the medallion's core with your main shot + one cannonball, which deals nearly as much damage as all three of Ruby's beams. The large bosses such as S6 boss that can easily eat both sets of cannonballs can get melted very easily. His only real weakness is the TLB fight because of how small it is.

Ruby's strong but is tricky to use, Sinnosuke has an effective spreadshot but is the slowest in the game, and Isha lacks Ruby's speed and frontal damage, as well as having a less reliable sub-shot that doesn't get much from pointblanking compared to Stuck or Sinnosuke (unless you manage to get on top of enemies during reflect!).

Ruby has the hardest stage order, Sinnosuke is in the middle, and Isha/Stuck have the easiest stage order (the lava stage is the hardest stage, so the earlier you do it, the easier it is).
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:03 am 


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Jeneki wrote:
SPM wrote:
The leaderboards need you.

Some games in particular are barren, yeah. I think it's mostly due to the minimum score. For example, as a newbie to Commando it took me over an hour of attempts to get the needed score.


Yeah but even then some games are less played (especially those in pack 1 I think). Anyway, now 4 people looped the game on Switch :mrgreen:

Well... 4 people CLEARED the game rather, because it doesn't loop on score attack (they could've added an end game bonus for extra lives remaining)
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:22 pm 


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EmperorIng wrote:
One thing that is worth mentioning about US Progear is that the game removes any loop requirements and allows you to credit-feed through the game.


Okay, so I've tested and you're misremembering. If Progear removed the loop requirements or checkpoints in the loop TONS of people would've 1CC'd the US version by now, after all. In both versions, you get the good ending for a 1CC (whether 1-All without meeting loop requirements or after a 2-All) and get the bad ending if you credit feed. I tested by 1CCing the US version dumping bombs everywhere, did not loop, got the good ending, then credit fed it, game ended on loop 1 with the worse endings (the "bad" endings are still VERY happy relative to most bad endings in games).

Also, just to make sure I wasn't mistaken, I 1cc'd Giga Wing US ver again with it turned the difficulty up to max, and yeah, I honestly don't notice a difference between it and the standard difficulty, or between max US difficulty or the JP version difficulty. Bullet patterns, speeds, # enemies, boss health... they all appear to be the same and are unaffected by game region (or the difficulty slider in the options). Here's the testing footage of Progear and Giga Wing (1cc with bombs to fail loop, credit feed, then 1CC of GW US ver at max difficulty):

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1192269380
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:48 pm 



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I held out downloading the Capcom Stadium thing for Switch, but my friend informed me they had added a bunch of shooters finally.

I grabbed ProGear and Varth, two games I already had on my R-Pi, but very good versions here.

I also like the options they included in Stadium for screen rotation. So Varth at least can be played Tate-mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:59 am 



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I guess Capcom isn't going to add new games like they said around 6 months ago ?

Probably due to poor sales.

I would love more shooters obviously... Mars Matrix, Dimahoo, Three Wonders.


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:47 am 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
EmperorIng wrote:
One thing that is worth mentioning about US Progear is that the game removes any loop requirements and allows you to credit-feed through the game.


Okay, so I've tested and you're misremembering. If Progear removed the loop requirements or checkpoints in the loop TONS of people would've 1CC'd the US version by now, after all. In both versions, you get the good ending for a 1CC (whether 1-All without meeting loop requirements or after a 2-All) and get the bad ending if you credit feed. I tested by 1CCing the US version dumping bombs everywhere, did not loop, got the good ending, then credit fed it, game ended on loop 1 with the worse endings (the "bad" endings are still VERY happy relative to most bad endings in games).


I saved images of the endings of progear back when I credit-fed them, they were all the ghosts of your family/friends showing you the way out of the flaming wreckage with an epilogue several years later. Is that supposed to be the "bad" ending?

There is a 'special' ending if you keep your waifu happy I think, is that the 'good' ending?

I just am confused because when I see the vgmuseum endings, the 1all ending is just that lion cunt saying "ha ha, i'm not dead bitches" which was never the ending I got back in those days.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:36 am 


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^Spoilers man!!!! You ruined the game for me!!! RUINED!!!! :lol: :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:45 pm 


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EmperorIng wrote:
I just am confused because when I see the vgmuseum endings, the 1all ending is just that lion cunt saying "ha ha, i'm not dead bitches" which was never the ending I got back in those days.


It's no surprise you're confused, VGMuseum has very odd labels for the endings. "1st Run", and then all the endings are lumped under "2nd Run - Standard Ending" or "2nd Run - Special Ending".

The "Standard Endings" are what you get if you beat the game's first loop using continues. What's shown under "1st Run" where the final boss rises from the ashes is the quick ending you get at the end of loop 1 if you trigger the second loop (and then you have to beat the loop to see the full ending). The "Special Endings" are what you get if you 1CC the game and get a 1-All or a 2-All clear.

The only thing I do not know is what ending you get at the end of loop 2 if you successfully trigger the loop and then use continues while in loop 2. Based on VGMuseum putting the standard endings in under 2nd Run suggests using a continue during loop 2 may get you the "normal" ending at the end of the second loop instead of the "1cc" ending. For reference, the requirement to loop the game is to 1CC clear the first loop using 2 or less bombs total in single player (# of deaths don't matter as long as you use no continues). Note that the loop will not trigger when playing with 2 players even if both no-miss and no-bomb (I know the same applies to Dodonpachi and presumably also to DOJ and Ketsui).

Quote:
There is a 'special' ending if you keep your waifu happy I think, is that the 'good' ending?


The only requirement is to 1CC the game. The endings involving continues all show the characters alone, separately (and are pretty happy actually!). The 1CC endings all show the pilot and gunner together. Ring tries to romance all the ladies with varying degrees of success, whereas Bolt is a gentleman and does not care for romancing the waifus. He's is shown with Chain crashing his plane into a house while a family's having dinner, comforting Nail as she loses her status as royalty (and is implied to be an older brother/father figure for her now). or hanging out with Rivet and the rest of the cast after she's given birth to her children (she's pregnant prior to the start of the game, and her lover's been killed in the war).
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:11 pm 


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Thanks for clearing up some weird alternate reality stuff that has been knocking around in my head over the last 8 or so years, ha ha. I think I must have had some false memories supplementing what I clearly did do (which is credit feed the game several times bitd). I've edited my above post with a disclaimer.

FWIW the other night I watched more closely your scoring guide of progear and used that to get my first extend and die right before the hidden 1up on stage 4 (dying to the first of the two tanks). It's a really great video and you should be proud of it! I doubt I'll ever trigger as many extends as the pros do however. Seems like a huge jump just to get to the second.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:51 pm 


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Thanks, I'm glad it's handy. The funny thing is that scoring in Progear is kinda silly; while gem cancelling gives a lot of early score, the vast majority of points actually comes from no-miss, no-bombing through the game to get the bonus points to the meter this provides, as well as raising the minimum gem rank. Even if your scoring as far as gem cancelling goes isn't very good, it's possible to get a ridiculous score purely through high level survival play. However, because gem cancelling is very helpful for good survival play, it's unlikely you'd do one without learning the other.

Case in point, this Longplay of Progear is absolute garbage at gem cancelling; the player who recorded it does not appear to know how to use the rapid shot to get diamond rank cancels. And yet, thanks to savestating their way to victory, gets a relatively massive score simply because jacking up your meter with max bomb bonuses gives a huge per-frame score bonus when attacking stuff. They also max out their lives by the final boss, but their life setting is not played on defaults. It's a hilarious example of a Longplay that doesn't look at all like how someone who knows the game would play it. By the time they get the bomb item on stage 2, their gem counter isn't even at 4000. Modest gem cancelling can get you 20000 to 30000 by then, or if you're an expert like gunnerSTG, 50000 before picking up the first bomb. The Longplay also doesn't know how to get the 1ups on Stage 4, but I think that's actually quite understandable and forgivable compared to how it doesn't showcase gem cancelling at all.

Every 10000 points on the meter gives you an extra 10 points per hit when attacking enemies, and that ends up being a TON of extra points over the course of the game if you've got a big meter built up. Getting bomb item when at max bombs gives you a flat bonus of 10000, then 20000, then 40000, then 80000 to your counter, raises your minimum gem rank by 2, and sets a special x2 bonus (shown by the kids waving the flag on the bomb meter) that applies to the per hit score bonus as well as the end of stage score tally. These bonuses are why, for scoring purposes, it's far, FAR worse to bomb than it is to die, generally speaking. If you bomb, you have to get 2 bombs to get back to getting the max bomb bonuses, instead of being able to trigger the x2 bonus on the next bomb if you die.

By the end of the game, if you manage to get all the bombs without dying or bombing, you'll never drop below emeralds and have a ridiculous per-hit score bonus that makes it pretty much guaranteed you'll be close to maxing out your life stock. Your score counter also doubles if you enter the second loop, further increasing the score potential by a huge amount (you can't gain score extends in loop 2). This is obviously very difficult to do though (I've only ever no-missed the first loop once ages ago, and that was thanks to a fluke dodge on the S4 boss where I deserved to get hit and somehow didn't).

For an easy 1-All clear, I recommend you try not to bomb until you reach the S3 boss. If you got both the bomb in S2 and S3 without dying, you'll have a nice counter built up that will help you get a few score extends, and can start bombing from that point onward for survival where the S3 boss, S4, and S5 all really get tough. If you start bombing earlier in the game, you'll jeopardize your gem counter and make it harder to get the score extends.
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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:22 pm 


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Posts: 53
i want them to add more games and also add more rewards and trophies over time. Grinding coins and getting your weekly ranking in is very satisfying to me. Capcom put in some work with this system and UI, so give it a try.

We need more games!


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 Post subject: Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:57 pm 


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Posts: 98
There was an update on Switch. Any idea what for?


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