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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:01 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 392
BIL wrote:
Makes me wonder about X-ING's other discs, like the further Arcade Gears (ImageFight & X-Multiply, PuLiRuLa), and Wolf Fang. I loved seeing the first two get ACA releases, and I hope the latter will follow (M2 and Hamster are both publishing DECO games, and G-Mode has the rights to Wolf Fang, so I'm fairly optimistic... also WTB THUNDER ZONE). There will always be a handmade charm to those SS/PS1-era conversions (Wolf Fang includes the PCB's secret, code-unlocked "Professional" mode, where you play all its branching routes in one herculean credit - unlocked via code on PS/SS, too!), but for console-loving fans of arcade stuff, it's great to have the option of straight emulations nowadays.



Can't speak about WF, but Pulirula's console versions have different behavior compared to the arcade game as well, specially noticeable with the bosses. Arcade Gears Wonder 3 is also far from accurate, any of the three games.



It's a bit silly buying the PCB but not looking for a good player who can assist in your labor when the game's so popular, to be honest. Do Tsujino's original arcade games feature adaptive rank?


Rastan78 wrote:
Here's some more info on the port:

Quote:
The main programmer for the ported version is Toshiaki Fujino, who is currently the president and programmer of Triangle Service. When asked about this in an interview with INH's "Twelve Stag & Trizeal" strategy DVD attached booklet, Mr. Fujino said, "The cause was that I was impatient to get a job when my career and know-how were suspicious. I am very sorry to the fans, but my reflection and experience are alive. "
"Since Taito provided only graphic data, I had to buy a board on my own, record the play, and transplant by eye," he said. Since there is a similar story in the ported version of "Night Striker" released at the same time, it may not have been possible to completely port it under the Taito environment at that time.


Tried Google without success - where's that quote from?


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:04 pm 



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Rastan78 wrote:
Egret mini and Taito Milestones aren't the same thing. The Egret mini console has some good titles coming that AFAIK aren't announced for anything else such as Metal Black.


I actually did know that this collection (Switch) and the Egret mini console were two distinct things, but apparently wasn't thinking clearly earlier when I quickly made that post. :)


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:28 pm 


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Bassa-Bassa wrote:
BIL wrote:
Makes me wonder about X-ING's other discs, like the further Arcade Gears (ImageFight & X-Multiply, PuLiRuLa), and Wolf Fang. I loved seeing the first two get ACA releases, and I hope the latter will follow (M2 and Hamster are both publishing DECO games, and G-Mode has the rights to Wolf Fang, so I'm fairly optimistic... also WTB THUNDER ZONE). There will always be a handmade charm to those SS/PS1-era conversions (Wolf Fang includes the PCB's secret, code-unlocked "Professional" mode, where you play all its branching routes in one herculean credit - unlocked via code on PS/SS, too!), but for console-loving fans of arcade stuff, it's great to have the option of straight emulations nowadays.



Can't speak about WF, but Pulirula's console versions have different behavior compared to the arcade game as well, specially noticeable with the bosses. Arcade Gears Wonder 3 is also far from accurate, any of the three games.


Interesting, makes sense. I wonder if VING enjoyed better arrangements with Taito - while the quotes Rastan linked mention Night Striker's 32bit versions being similarly different (notably, the Saturn one is retitled "Night Striker S"), I've 1CCd Metal Black in MAME and Saturn back-to-back and found all my usual tactics applied seamlessly. I'm sure there might be something off at high-level scoreplay, but for survival it works fine. Same goes for the other STG I've played in significant depth, Gun.Smoke (via Capcom Generation 4).

This also applies to Saturn Elevator Action Returns. Oddly, I seem to recall it giving you too many bombs compared to F3 - but you can just dial them down via the options. And just like the F3 cart, the game's kinda easy on defaults anyway - best played at max difficulty IMO, tuning up the AI's dozy reaction speed... I only hesitate because I instantly favoured Edie, who may be an EZmode pick, with her blistering shot rate and dominating firebombs. Low HP doesn't matter when they can't get a shot off, being riddled with lead and/or scorched in their hideyholes. :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:09 pm 



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I remember discussing Ving vs Xing with somebody way more proficient than me not that long ago so this is not my own research, but basically, despite the naming thing, those were radically different companies with almost opposed approaches - whereas Ving was a small group from Sapporo which started as a PC developer with a lot of passion for arcade games leading to quality ports carefully crafted by themselves on PCs and 32bit consoles (think of them as the other Rutubo), Xing was a big multimedia publisher which hired low-profile ninja companies to quickly port arcade games for them whichever the resulting product.

That's probably the reason why Ving got better arrangements with Taito, no wonder - they even were hired for Saturn's Rayforce port. Ving's Night Striker might be the most liberal port from them, but I also was told that it must be the only one not made by Ving themselves. How's Mame's emulation of NS, BTW? Last I checked there were annoying visual glitches, but that was definitely long ago.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:17 pm 


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Not sure of Night Striker's MAME's status, sorry. That's exactly the impression I've gotten of VING and XING - I too briefly wondered if something was up, with their names, but as you say, seems decidedly not. "Other Rutubo" is definitely a good moniker for the former!
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:54 pm 


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The only thing I have from Xing is Gussun Oyoyo S and that one turned out good IMO. Definitely better than the SFC port with the cramped playfield. That's one game I hope comes out on Arcade Archives soon.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:23 am 


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Edit to last post, missed this:

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Do Tsujino's original arcade games feature adaptive rank?


I've only dabbled in them, but this rang a bell re: Trizeal, so I looked up Herr Schatten's ST. Short answer is yes. Longer is that it's got two states, OFF and ON, the latter triggered when your total weapon level exceeds a threshold.

Offhand, it reminds me of IREM's Saigo no Nindou. That has more possible states (at least four), affecting large enemy/boss HP, but you can likewise go with a few different loadouts before hitting the upper tiers, where enemies get marginally tankier. Key is to learn to do without the POW Katana + Shuriken, which will leave POW Kusarigama + Grenade able to shatter heavies in a couple blows.

At any rate, it's more than Saturn GF got. Guess he was making amends. :mrgreen:

---

Thinking of a Taito Milestones I'd actually whip my wallet (and hog) out for, sticking to the eight-title format, and avoiding existing ACA releases (hence no Darius or BB or Kage or Front Line), or M2 ones (hence no Darius II / Gaiden)

Space Invaders - seismic, seminal, a galaxy-spanning load whose blast wave resounds to this instant.
Chack n' Pop - Happy to see this one, will grab ACA on sight. Arguably the forerunner of their celebrated single-screen platformers...
Rainbow Islands - ... and probably the masterpiece of the lot, sorely in need of a good modern release. >_< (scrolls, but yeah)
New Zealand Story, The - esteemed relative of BB. TNZS will always be cute and relevant!
Rastan Saga - hack/slash icon, has aged better than the similarly famous Ninja Warriors. I swear to god if the shitty sequel hits ACA first imma █▓ing■▌█▓ ■▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓ ▓
Gun Frontier - may not be the event nor the mainstream darling of SI, but for genre diehards this is another instrumental work.
Metal Black - same same same. SS port's great but also uncommon and pricey nowadays.
Rayforce - Jaimers says it better than I could, a balls-hard and meticulous scoring game presaging a raft of 90s/00s classics.

Hon mentions: Thunder Fox (ultra-smooth and rollicking Spartan X/Rolling Thunder hybrid), Dead Connection (what a refreshingly unique take on carnival shooting! :shock:), Elevator Action Returns (a game loved far and wide, for good reason - comedic ultraviolence galore) and Bubble Memories (I've never even played it, but Sumez loves it, and VING's Saturn Bubble Symphony is goddamn near-perfect).

I'm not into couldabeen talk, but tbh, these days it doesn't feel entirely out of the question. Certainly less out of the question than a decade ago. Interesting times. Ah fuck it. Impossible mentions: R-Gear and VERTEXER

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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:28 pm 


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Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Tried Google without success - where's that quote from?


https://w.atwiki.jp/gcmatome/pages/2442.html


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:12 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
The only thing I have from Xing is Gussun Oyoyo S and that one turned out good IMO. Definitely better than the SFC port with the cramped playfield. That's one game I hope comes out on Arcade Archives soon.


That's been on my Saturn probably/maybe list for a while, good to know it's enjoyable. Also didn't know there's an SFC port, I have a sister who I'm giving an SFC to for her birthday (she had an old SNES that broke), and this game was absolutely made for her. Is the port actually bad, or just not arcade perfect?


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:41 pm 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
BrianC wrote:
The only thing I have from Xing is Gussun Oyoyo S and that one turned out good IMO. Definitely better than the SFC port with the cramped playfield. That's one game I hope comes out on Arcade Archives soon.


That's been on my Saturn probably/maybe list for a while, good to know it's enjoyable. Also didn't know there's an SFC port, I have a sister who I'm giving an SFC to for her birthday (she had an old SNES that broke), and this game was absolutely made for her. Is the port actually bad, or just not arcade perfect?


I don't know if I would call the port bad, but it's definitely less fun to play with slower moving blocks and strategies from the Saturn version not working. The second SFC game got the physics right, but also went way up in price recently.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:36 pm 



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Zoku Gussun Oyoyo is the most polished, but it's a Banpresto original. Couldn't get much fun out of this series under the 1 credit rule (which you're supposed to follow as saving the items you get for later stages is important in many instances).



BIL wrote:
Edit to last post, missed this:

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Do Tsujino's original arcade games feature adaptive rank?


I've only dabbled in them, but this rang a bell re: Trizeal, so I looked up Herr Schatten's ST. Short answer is yes. Longer is that it's got two states, OFF and ON, the latter triggered when your total weapon level exceeds a threshold.

Offhand, it reminds me of IREM's Saigo no Nindou. That has more possible states (at least four), affecting large enemy/boss HP, but you can likewise go with a few different loadouts before hitting the upper tiers, where enemies get marginally tankier. Key is to learn to do without the POW Katana + Shuriken, which will leave POW Kusarigama + Grenade able to shatter heavies in a couple blows.

At any rate, it's more than Saturn GF got. Guess he was making amends. :mrgreen:


Thanks for checking. I find hard to believe he ignored that Gun Frontier had adaptive rank of some kind at that point. So it seems he just didn't even try.




Rastan78 wrote:
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Tried Google without success - where's that quote from?


https://w.atwiki.jp/gcmatome/pages/2442.html


Thanks. Same developer as the Pulirula port, indeed. I wonder if Tsujino was also involved in that - not specially well programmed.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:48 pm 


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Its seems were getting Raiden next week! Beautiful.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202106/25225018.html

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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:58 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:57 pm 


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Bassa-Bassa wrote:

Thanks. Same developer as the Pulirula port, indeed. I wonder if Tsujino was also involved in that - not specially well programmed.


Curious. What's off about PuLiRuLa on the Saturn? No one's ever seemed to take a real deep dive into it vis a vis its accuracy.
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:20 pm 



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DenimDemon wrote:
Its seems were getting Raiden next week! Beautiful.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202106/25225018.html

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Aww yeah it's finally time!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:58 pm 



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Raiden is a day 1 purchase for me, but really wish we'd get a port of Raiden Fighters Aces. I like ACA games and know they are cheaper, but a game like Raiden seems like it should come with a lot more.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:15 am 



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Raiden next week!

HAI!

Sugoi!!!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:51 am 



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I picked up Saint Dragon.

Are we ever getting Dragon Breed?


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:25 am 


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I wonder about IREM. Of the larger names Hamster deals with, they've been conspicuously absent for a while now, since 2019 and the big M72 debut (ImageFight, X-Multiply, Saigo no Nindou and Vigilante), and the equally important M92 launch of Kaitei Daisensou. OTOH, Konami releases have kept to the same pace as before, and there's been quite a few Taito, SNK and Tecmo boards, too.

We'll see, I guess. They had a great Seibu debut with Wiz and Zero Team, and we're only just getting Raiden now. I'd love to see the levee break and a motherlode of M72+M92 and... whatever board standard Konami used circa XEXEX/Mystic Warriors ensue. All part of the fun, IMO. Like an advent calendar of frequently killer, previously zero-chance home releases. But I've seen more arcade releases in this gen alone than I'll be able to finish before I cark it. :mrgreen: There's M2's elusive Toaplan and DECO projects to look forward to, as well.
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:08 pm 


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There's never been an accurate port of R-Type has there? Wasn't there something wrong with the PS1 port, e.g. no slowdown? Played via MAME it has jerky scrolling and ship movement when played on modern displays as it runs at some weird refresh rate (<60Hz IIRC).


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:23 pm 


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R-Types runs a bit too fast, basically - PS1's 60hz refresh rate, versus the M72 PCB's 55hz. Judging by every previous ACA release, a hypothetical would have some scrolling chop, but run at the accurate speed.

Annoyingly, there was apparently some talk of ACA R-Type a while back, but it seems to have quietly vanished. I'd wondered if it might be due to Dimensions. Would still love to see it at some point. ACA Saigo no Nindou was what finally twisted my arm into giving this series a chance, I wish they'd give us a few more M72s... both R-Types, Dragon Breed and Hero Tonma sounds good.
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:56 pm 


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Fingolfin wrote:
Raiden next week!


Is this confirmed?! If so great news :D


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:52 pm 



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Flashman wrote:

Is this confirmed?! If so great news :D


https://twitter.com/hamster_corp?lang=en


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:59 pm 


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Yeah, was just coming to say, Hamster themselves have retweeted several of the announcements. TBH I've never seen Famitsu get one of these wrong, but that would seem to clinch it for next Thursday. I liked J-CAST's acknowledgement of its "long-awaited" status, haha.
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:50 pm 



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EmperorIng wrote:
Bassa-Bassa wrote:

Thanks. Same developer as the Pulirula port, indeed. I wonder if Tsujino was also involved in that - not specially well programmed.


Curious. What's off about PuLiRuLa on the Saturn? No one's ever seemed to take a real deep dive into it vis a vis its accuracy.


Well I actually read about it first in a spanish site years ago and just lately had the chance to confirm it by myself. For starters, the Xing version is much more generous with the pumpkins occurrence, so you always get more energy and magic refills than with the original version. Secondly, at least the first and fourth bosses (and the stage 2's boss guardian) are nerfed while the third boss is now stupidly hard. The second boss is now harder as well though this one's been made with some sense at least. Lastly they changed how the second form of the basic attack (which lasts a bit longer and therefore the following attack takes longer) shows up - you don't need to face an enemy now to make it appear (totally pedantic since there're very few enemies you can use a combo with, but there it is for no reason). Some cosmetic changes for no actual reason too, but nothing major.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:56 am 


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Seems Sea Fighter Poseidon (and Chack n' Pop) are confirmed for ACA, per Hamster's podcast. While neither's on my wishlist (outside of the latter's historical stature - Mr. Chack'n shows up everywhere), this combined with Raiden's impending debut make me wonder if we might see a return to regularly scheduled releases. Mizukabu pls, my Saturn's in cold storage. Temperature-monitored storage, I mean.

Not that I care too much - the last six months' Roulette Mode has seen some real gems. I found several more exciting to see on modern console than the stuff that's been confirmed (Cybattler, Hachamecha Fighter, Task Force Harrier, Thunder Cross II, Markham, Halley's Comet, Time Pilot '84, Quarth, and for non-STGs, Saboten Bombers, Crime Fighters, The Lord of King and Makai Densetsu).

EDIT: Actually, I didn't realise Poseidon was quite that old (1984). Been forever since I played a couple Taito Memories credits. Reminds me a bit of The Tin Star, offhand. Got an interesting body-ram mechanic, the BGM has that same decidedly Zelda-esque chime, and most importantly, the colours don't seem too garish. A lot of those ca.1984 Taito games (the ones with the Roman numerals in copyright), like Tin Star, Wild Western, Front Line and Pirate Pete have absolutely searing BG colours, in TTS's case almost ruining an otherwise superb arena STG/beltscroll hybrid (to be fair, it's the tiny grey speck bullets that really do it in, but squinting at them on day-glo BGs isn't pleasant). Elevator Action is one of the few that seemed to dodge the matter entirely, even the subgenre-pioneering Front Line suffers a bit for it.
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Last edited by BIL on Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:38 am 


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Ugh, Raiden. I mean, I like it and all, but back when I had my PS1 setup, it was literally the only game that could ever raise my temper to joypad-smashing levels. Granted, I'm a bit older now, but I know the rage is still there....
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:41 pm 


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I just realised, I've completely forgotten which revisions (if any) disabled checkpoint restarts, or if it was just Raiden II/DX that allowed that. I'm tempted to say it was JP=checkpoints, US=instant revival, but I could easily have that backwards or wrong entirely.

Time to hit up ye olde posts and dust off. :cool:

edit: aha! ty Patchy-kun <3

Despatche wrote:
Use whatever the defaults are in each version; this is usually 3 lives and extends at 150,000 and 400,000, but not always. Playing on the 2P side makes the game somewhat easier in at least the arcade and PlayStation versions.

Raiden is supposed to have checkpoints. For the arcade version, the new set 1 does have checkpoints, while the new set 2 (which is the old main set) doesn't; most of the other versions don't have checkpoints either, apparently. For the PlayStation version, the Japanese version has checkpoints at all times, while the American version has a toggle that defaults to off


I wonder if they'll include multiple regions/revisions (certainly not out of the question, given the recent Crime Fighters four-rev release), or maybe a Preference Setting for checkpoint toggles.

The version I've played most in recent years is Seibu's own MD one, which is locked to checkpoints... which I kinda expect from Toaplanesques of this vintage, tbh. It's subtly easier than the arcade version, but still pretty assholic by console standards. (Meanwhile, the HuCard and PCE-CD ones tend progressively more generous. Micronics' customarily anemic SFC cart isn't worth mentioning in such company)

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BIL sez “ Your ground bombs get comically massive around then.”

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Previously mentioned Cold War aesthetic by BIL also begged for inclusion of Slim Pickens cowboy hat waving modern dance interp of idiocy of nuclear weapons use.

(Please not nuclear war is not funny and it’s more than surreal — that’s the point of Strangelove;
also I promise not to drop photo bombs like this...too often....).


Totally missed this eminent post a few pages back, re Task Force Harrier - I guess your account was awaiting approval. Welcome aboard! And yes indeed, Strangelove is a must-see for anyone who Loves The Bomb. :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:13 pm 


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OldSkoolShmuper wrote:
I picked up Saint Dragon.

Are we ever getting Dragon Breed?


I attempted to put some time into this over the weekend. Like the aesthetics, but damn it's frustrating.
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 Post subject: Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:46 pm 


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Yeah Saint Dragon is pretty nasty. Fast sniper fire plus slow ship is always frustrating to die from. At least it's forgiving when it comes to powering down after death.


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