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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 2:30 pm 


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NAVVARR wrote:
Finally got sent a code and input it and got a message saying wrong region. Anyone else had this? I've just got back onto the help section to resend another code.


I'm going to assume you're talking PSN codes as mine finally appeared today.

I think all the physical ones are Japan region, mine certainly is. PSN codes are regioned, the code issued should match the game received. You will need a PSN account in the JP region which is somewhat irritating to set up but there are various guides out there on doing so. I can't recall if you need an address now, if so just pick a Pizza Hut or something in Tokyo.

If you redeem the code using the JP region account the DLC will work fine when signed into your normal PSN account.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:00 pm 


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That new Mark video is pretty funny. I'm pretty sure it exists only because of my reply to the Final 2 review. I'm sure he's gotten a weird threat from some asshole, the internet is fucking crazy, but come on now. The video is literally about a would-be critic needing to be protected from criticism. I can't believe so many are falling for it, but that's also the internet being crazy, I guess.

Austin wrote:
Considering 60fps has been the standard for probably at least 90% of shmups released over the last 35 years, I'm surprised there aren't more people noticing Final 2's framerate stutters on a variety of platforms. It's pretty egregious on Switch and the One X and is unacceptable to me.

It would be "unacceptable" if the main platform was not just PS4. Again, I am sorry to say, other platforms are second-rate citizens. Now if this is happening on PS4, and I mean really happening, then maybe we have a problem. I play on PC, so I wouldn't know what's going on with other platforms.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:07 pm 


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I saw quite a few drops on Icarus' stream using PS4. This has been the eternal history of polygon arcade games with only rare exceptions.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:25 pm 



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system11 wrote:
NAVVARR wrote:
Finally got sent a code and input it and got a message saying wrong region. Anyone else had this? I've just got back onto the help section to resend another code.


I'm going to assume you're talking PSN codes as mine finally appeared today.

I think all the physical ones are Japan region, mine certainly is. PSN codes are regioned, the code issued should match the game received. You will need a PSN account in the JP region which is somewhat irritating to set up but there are various guides out there on doing so. I can't recall if you need an address now, if so just pick a Pizza Hut or something in Tokyo.

If you redeem the code using the JP region account the DLC will work fine when signed into your normal PSN account.


What a load of hassle- remind me never to buy another Kickstarter game- load of mince.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:27 pm 


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system11 wrote:
I saw quite a few drops on Icarus' stream using PS4. This has been the eternal history of polygon arcade games with only rare exceptions.

That is unfortunate. We can only hope it gets patched, then.

Though, I don't seem to remember any of the Raiden games having very many drops? I thought the slow boss explosions were cinematic, at least.

I think some of the Shikigami games have slowdown, but I forget which ones, and I believe the ones that do let you turn it off in ports. I know at least one of them does, I believe it was 2.

I seem to remember Psikyo's stuff and Giga Wing 2/Generations being fine?
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 4:31 pm 


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Despatche wrote:
That new Mark video is pretty funny. I'm pretty sure it exists only because of my reply to the Final 2 review. I'm sure he's gotten a weird threat from some asshole, the internet is fucking crazy, but come on now. The video is literally about a would-be critic needing to be protected from criticism. I can't believe so many are falling for it, but that's also the internet being crazy, I guess.


Oh my god.. that sounds so embarrassing :shock: I'm not sure if I can watch it.

Imagine the victim cards he could have slammed on the table had someone been actually unfriendly or aggressive to him. To add to the irony, the only aggressive or ad hominem comment I ever saw in the whole discussion was the one *he* directed at *you*.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:00 pm 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
I dunno...



...as both an original Mighty No. 9 kickstarter backer and one of the Wii U's staunchest defenders, I'm gonna have to whistle a foul on both of these.



I'd say, there are different sides for that part.
#1 - comparing Final 2 to these games is weird as hell.
#2 - at least some of these games were met with more harsh reception than they deserve. Speaking of Devil's Third, it's no way a "bad game". It had amazing and very fun multiplayer, while singleplayer campaign is also better than most people decided to think of - blame journalists who played it more like a cover-based shooter... It is still a nice for genre fans if you play it more risky, like our forum user Iconoclast ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiQZ1sut0tU )
#3 - inlcuding Death Stranding together with "failed kickstarter promises" Mighty 9 and "game that went through development hell" Devil's Third is absolute cringe, that only shows how Mark is biased for his tastes, and only supports theory of him not really much being into r-type and r-type alike shmups in general.


Also, if you disregard the whole thing because of few questionable details in a list of arguments, you just act the same as electric_underground, choosing to skip contents because "harsh" tone of writing is a red flag for you.

Maybe i take it a bit more harder, but that's personal for me as Daikatana (PC) fan - and that game is still "very trendy" to define as much worse than it is (with fanmade patches it's solid 8/10 fps classic) and it was (was around 7/10 game with problems on release year, but it became a fashion to consider it 3/10 garbage or worse). But clickbait youtube "influencers" use that to gain more views and followers, choosing a game that nobody "big and respected web persona" will defend , and then using it just as a scapegoat. Just like commercial journalists, who give away all those 9/10 to sponsored AAA releases, and then they go hard and heavy on unknown/indie games, giving them shit reviews to compensate, which is unfair. You may disagree, but i noticed such behaviour for years.

p.s.
So ironic to read comments of Mark's fans speaking about "horrible hivemind of game defenders" while them being echochamber themselves, lmao. Also i still disagree that Despatche's comment was "offensive" (except directness of how he calls reviewer a "liar"?), while Mark's reply was 100% pure (passive)aggression.

Also they all (people in comment section) are missing a point. Mark presents it like people are "angry about negative review being a thing" and using people's exhauste of game industry way with ""corrupt reviewers" to get sympathy. While it is not what it is, and not why exactly people were disagreeing with situation of previous video. But surely, it's much easier to call us "crazy fans who are in rage cause final 2 doesnt receive 10/10" and get free thumbs up for that from random viewers.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:31 pm 



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I agree it's a real bummer if the frame rates are poor on some machines. It runs well on PS4 Pro. Any one of those rare unicorns with a PS5 tried it?

Shite framerates ruin immersion for me in any game. I don't mind 30, as long as it's a stable 30, tho for shmups 60fps should be standard these days. I'd always rather have to option to dial back graphical effects in favour of performance. But I'm a console peasant so we usually get the shitty end lol.

Hopefully they'll patch the stuttering for folks soon.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:37 pm 


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system11 wrote:
I saw quite a few drops on Icarus' stream using PS4. This has been the eternal history of polygon arcade games with only rare exceptions.


I don't understand why polygon based games always try to push specs as much as possible; why not compromise and build games so that we get consistent 60 FPS everywhere? There's plenty of 3D games with Xbox 360 or even PS2 quality that still look great.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:43 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
system11 wrote:
I saw quite a few drops on Icarus' stream using PS4. This has been the eternal history of polygon arcade games with only rare exceptions.


I don't understand why polygon based games always try to push specs as much as possible; why not compromise and build games so that we get consistent 60 FPS everywhere? There's plenty of 3D games with Xbox 360 or even PS2 quality that still look great.


Fuckin word. Playing ZOE2: Mars currently, the Vic Viper duel looks so good I wanna fuckin cry ;-;7 So beautiful I let it slap me around a bit, just to see them Ripple Lasers and dust clouds @ 60fps Image
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:47 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
system11 wrote:
I saw quite a few drops on Icarus' stream using PS4. This has been the eternal history of polygon arcade games with only rare exceptions.


I don't understand why polygon based games always try to push specs as much as possible; why not compromise and build games so that we get consistent 60 FPS everywhere? There's plenty of 3D games with Xbox 360 or even PS2 quality that still look great.


This is one of the many reasons why R-Type Delta is better than Final.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:51 pm 


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Please don't confuse amazing skilled developers whose games pushed platforms to jaw dropping heights, and those who couldn't really optimize their creation

:|

(sorry, i'm a huge fan of technical side and "making the most out of what you have")

p.s.
Also, honestly speaking, Final 2 doesn't really have ps4 levels of gfx aside from, maybe, lighting/reflections aspect and hangar pillot/ship room. Main game remains having early ps3 era polycount and materials (at least by looks of it - maybe someone would rip resources for inspection). So it's even more of developers' lack of experience with engine to blame.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:53 pm 


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NAVVARR wrote:
What a load of hassle- remind me never to buy another Kickstarter game- load of mince.


If it wasn't for this model the game wouldn't exist at all. They should have stated all the physical ones were Japanese though, not sure if they did. If they had then this should have been expected. Blame Sony for being idiotic about regioned codes on a region free console.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:10 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
system11 wrote:
I saw quite a few drops on Icarus' stream using PS4. This has been the eternal history of polygon arcade games with only rare exceptions.


I don't understand why polygon based games always try to push specs as much as possible; why not compromise and build games so that we get consistent 60 FPS everywhere? There's plenty of 3D games with Xbox 360 or even PS2 quality that still look great.
• A higher framerate does not significantly affect sales of a game.
• A higher framerate does not significantly affect the reviews of a game.
source, Mike Acton, Insomniac Games
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:07 pm 


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I got my R-Type Final 2 Inaugural Flight Edition today. Kinda surprised there was one copy here on videogame store and I got it. I'll will try it on both PS5 & PS4 and see if there is any difference. Just listening soundtrack CD now, 'cause my wife is playing, but can't wait to start this 8)


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:16 pm 


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DJ Incompetent wrote:
• A higher framerate does not significantly affect sales of a game.
• A higher framerate does not significantly affect the reviews of a game.
source, Mike Acton, Insomniac Games


What do either of these have to do with how good a game actually is? There are plenty of great games that were reviewed well that sold poorly, and plenty of frankly bad games that had considerable sales due to the strength of the series' brand. Good games generally have stable framerates. Only very few games are forgiven for inconsistent framerates due to how hard they try to push the scope of the console (Shadow of the Colossus, which pretty much generally everyone agrees would've been better at a stable 30 FPS or preferably 60 FPS).
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:32 pm 


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It seems Edge Magazine scored Final 2 a 7/10. Looking forward to read it.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:38 pm 


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At this point I'm firmly in the 'fuck reviews' camp, the only things which are ever useful are youtube frame rate comparisons or in depth graphical effect writeups, in case of horrible effects like chromatic aberration. These days so much information on games appears ahead of time that by the time any review exists you're likely to have already decided whether or not you're interested and it's then just a 'buy now or pay less later' decision.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:50 pm 


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system11 wrote:
At this point I'm firmly in the 'fuck reviews' camp, the only things which are ever useful are youtube frame rate comparisons or in depth graphical effect writeups, in case of horrible effects like chromatic aberration. These days so much information on games appears ahead of time that by the time any review exists you're likely to have already decided whether or not you're interested and it's then just a 'buy now or pay less later' decision.
Well same... I mean i bought this game twice without reading any review...
I just find cool that they took their time to write and print about it.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:57 pm 


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DenimDemon wrote:
I just find cool that they took their time to write and print about it.


This.

I feel unsatisfied that biggest release in genre for past decade flies under radar of most "gaming network"
(for example, in my country there are still no reviews for f2, like, at all. except steam user reviews and some small user sharing opionions blog. at least we got some mentions of demo being released on gaming news sites, but that's it)

:evil:

So kudos for Eurogamer and Edge for giving some attention to them shmups...
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:09 pm 


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Despatche wrote:
That new Mark video is pretty funny. I'm pretty sure it exists only because of my reply to the Final 2 review.


This is actually precisely why the video exists. He said that be believes that he deserved to be treated with respect.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:12 am 


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Mark's more or less saying that the criticism of his review came from fan boys who simply couldn't handle that he gave their precious game a negative evaluation. It's almost like he's setting himself up as some sort of martyr because he was brave enough to be honest and not conform to popular opinion lol.

From what I saw the problems mentioned had more to do with the fact that he didn't seem to have a lot of knowledge of the series or the dev. Also he barely played the game a few hours.

From what I've seen even fans of the game will readily admit that it has some issues. Not buying the blind praise from fans thing on this one.

I will say that I've enjoyed his content in the past, so I have no hate for him or his channel. But he should really be more open to criticism.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 am 



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This is GOTY for me so far.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:12 am 


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Suffice to say my opinion on R-Type Final 2 is mixed. On one hand I think physical backers got screwed only receiving a Japan only region of the game, even more so when is evident in the credits that NISA was already involved prior to the Western announcement 4 months before release. So Granzella basically doing fuck all for proper regional distribution is a sour point for me.

The game at least turned out great, although based on the datamines inaccessible ships and unfinished stages, there is a lot to look forward to with future updates.

I think Granzella probably should have just stuck to development and had some kind of external company involved to handle backer relations. Communication and providing transparency in regards to updates clearly wasn't their strong suit.

Even in cases like Bloodstained and Eiyuden for example had English speaking staff involved handling the Western customers to deal with updates and information to set expectations for backers being substantial confidence booster in how the campaigns were handled.

Every single failed Kickstarter the biggest issue was lack of transparency and communication.

The backer DLC ships for example. I didn't even know there was even a option to vote for which design I prefered because I never got that information in an email / update. I found this out months after the fact on the backer website. This kind of stuff should have been front and center from the very beginning, and looking at lot of the previous update history on Kickstarter for R-Type Final 2 there seems a common trend with a lack of minimal information in general.

Hell I don't even understand why such an important backer decision was handled externally and not some sort of poll directly linked via a Google Form or on the official backer website. Management of the funding campaigns is baffling all in all.

The elephant in the room IMO was the Stage Pass. The extra stages were already backer funded stretch goals. So they should have been included in the main game because those milestones were hit during the funding campaign, but seems Granzella tried to make this a paid extra after the fact for everyone else.

I'm glad the game turned out as well as it did, definitely not the best funding campaign in my experience though.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:45 am 


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Rastan78 wrote:
Mark's more or less saying that the criticism of his review came from fan boys who simply couldn't handle that he gave their precious game a negative evaluation. It's almost like he's setting himself up as some sort of martyr because he was brave enough to be honest and not conform to popular opinion lol.

From what I saw the problems mentioned had more to do with the fact that he didn't seem to have a lot of knowledge of the series or the dev. Also he barely played the game a few hours.

From what I've seen even fans of the game will readily admit that it has some issues. Not buying the blind praise from fans thing on this one.

I will say that I've enjoyed his content in the past, so I have no hate for him or his channel. But he should really be more open to criticism.


Yeah but did you know he got fired from Nintendo Life? (As if we all haven't heard that over and over again)

He seems to have an issue with being criticized but completely fine with high fiving people who agree with him who proactively dogpile on others who disagree with him in his comments or Discord. I can't mess with people like that so I unsubbed. He's not interested in discourse. He's interested in being validated by others who can't speak or think for themselves.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 6:43 am 



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Rastan78 wrote:
From what I saw the problems mentioned had more to do with the fact that he didn't seem to have a lot of knowledge of the series or the dev. Also he barely played the game a few hours.


Just compare his review footage to the shmup junkie's review, it's obvious who gave the game enough time for a fair shake. Nearly all of Mark's footage is level 3 on repeat


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:12 am 


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DLC Set 2 is dated for 5/31 on UK and AU eShop. The Stage Pass says all packs will be out by late June.

I'm assuming DLC 2 will be Delta Stage 1 and R-Type 1 Stage 3. Pack 3 will probably be the R-Type 2 and Final Stages which haven't been shown yet however they never ran a poll for R-Type 2 and Final's highest requested stage is the Battleship Raid which so redundant even if the one we have is crap. This game needs more forests, bio-organic alien and surreal levels. The biomes are really lacking.

I bet that the R-Type 1 Stage 1 stretch goal will be a free patch update.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:43 am 


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By pure chance I found out two important things about the double mecha assault in stage 6.2: If you get behind the mecha coming from the left and keep moving up and down, he won't shoot at you and he will shield you from the shots of the other mecha on the right.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:01 am 


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ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:
DLC Set 2 is dated for 5/31 on UK and AU eShop. The Stage Pass says all packs will be out by late June.

I'm assuming DLC 2 will be Delta Stage 1 and R-Type 1 Stage 3. Pack 3 will probably be the R-Type 2 and Final Stages which haven't been shown yet however they never ran a poll for R-Type 2 and Final's highest requested stage is the Battleship Raid which so redundant even if the one we have is crap. This game needs more forests, bio-organic alien and surreal levels. The biomes are really lacking.

I bet that the R-Type 1 Stage 1 stretch goal will be a free patch update.


I agree we need more bio-organic or just generally more surreal-like stages.

I was hoping they would use Stage F-A from Final 1 instead of Stage 1 just for the general weirdness of it all but mainly for the music too. It's also a more technical stage requiring dodging and moving your ship in narrow corridors of invincible enemy drones, except for the red ones at least.

The water effect in the background was kind of neat too and how you entered the stage into like a vat of strange liquid it felt like you were in the heart of the Bydo due to how alien-like and unusual it was.

Also the allegory with the two humans in the background and the game constantly telling you that Bydo being a man made nightmare and have a identical helix DNA structure the same as human DNA gives it all a morbidly creepy implication.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:21 pm 



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Pack 3 is meant to have 3 levels I gather. As to whether pack 2 will have the already briefly shown Delta St1 and R-Type St3, I'm not convinced they won't put the latter in pack 3 and have the second level of pack 2 to be from II or Final; otherwise they have two relatively short and easy levels together in the second pack.
I would hope the homage stage from Final to be stage 2.0 as it has the most variations (although a lacklustre boss). Why the battleship raid level got the highest votes is a mystery to me, it is a very tedious level!


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