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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:34 pm 



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 101
Location: Western USA
So, a silly trivia question:

Did you ever catch the massive in-joke in regards to the R-9K Sunday Strike?

Spoiler: show
It's a "cheap, mass-produced" R-9C in the same way that Super R-Type is a "cheap, mass-produced" R-Type 2, and has the weapons accordingly.


I'm ashamed to admit I didn't catch it back in the day when playing Final 1, or at least I don't remember catching it. A lot of thought went into the extra ships, even if they weren't particularly well balanced.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:42 pm 


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Finally had time to play through stage 7.2; enjoyed it very much. One of the better stages. Now that I've seen all routes, I think the Stage 3.0 is the only one I dislike, and that's mostly because graphics. Thankfully it's very short.

Mark claimed in one of his comments this game is rubbish because "you dont need to detach force pad anywhere". Load of rubbish. This game has far more emphasize on force pad launching than any other R-type I can think of; save maybe the first one. All in all, this feels really nicely balanced in terms of weapons; they all feel useful.

Compare this to past Irem games, where you usually needed to stick just one of the weapons to 1cc it. Dragon Breed for example, did anyone ever play any other than golden dragon? Even in first two R-types anything else than red weapon feel useless. So much for Granzella "not being match for classic Irem".. that statement is hot garbage.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:09 pm 


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MJR wrote:
Finally had time to play through stage 7.2; enjoyed it very much. One of the better stages. Now that I've seen all routes, I think the Stage 3.0 is the only one I dislike, and that's mostly because graphics. Thankfully it's very short.

I must admit I quite like it, at least gameplay-wise it's really solid. The problem is that it's so completely different aesthetically to the rest of the stages that it feels like it doesn't belong to the same game.

How would you rate the three paths, difficulty-wise? I‘ve got the first five stages down, so I can no-miss them consistently, but I can't decide which would be the best path for my first clear. So far I mostly went with .2, but the boss is really difficult with a low firing-rate ship like the Arrowhead. Last time I tried the .0 route and that seemed much more manageable immediately. Didn't make it to the boss there, though, so maybe it gets worse.

MJR wrote:
Mark claimed in one of his comments this game is rubbish because "you dont need to detach force pad anywhere". Load of rubbish. This game has far more emphasize on force pad launching than any other R-type I can think of; save maybe the first one. All in all, this feels really nicely balanced in terms of weapons; they all feel useful.

Seconding this. No other game in the series has ever forced me to play so dynamically.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:54 pm 


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MJR wrote:
Mark claimed in one of his comments this game is rubbish because "you dont need to detach force pad anywhere". Load of rubbish. This game has far more emphasize on force pad launching than any other R-type I can think of; save maybe the first one. All in all, this feels really nicely balanced in terms of weapons; they all feel useful.


I think Mark was talking about normal mode when saying so. And to be fair, the default mode for new players (normal/original/etc) should be engaging and not feel empty-ish (leaving that to easier modes). But I don't know, haven't played it yet...

MJR wrote:
Compare this to past Irem games, where you usually needed to stick just one of the weapons to 1cc it. (...) Even in first two R-types anything else than red weapon feel useless.


Just in defence of my beloved R-Type II: the blue laser works quite well too! In my first 1cc I had to use it in several stages after recoveries, and it saved me! :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:00 pm 


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SPM wrote:

I think Mark was talking about normal mode when saying so. And to be fair, the default mode for new players (normal/original/etc) should be engaging and not feel empty-ish (leaving that to easier modes).


I'm not very good shmup player, and for me on "Normal" there is a big need to think out sending and reposition of force starting from Stage 3 and onward, otherwise can't survive.

:roll:

Perhaps it's Stage 1&2 that get a bit sleepy after you are getting used to them on normal and easier difficulties.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 4:54 am 


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ED-057 wrote:
GOG system requirements for the PC version are asking for a GTX 950. But GOG requirements are at least 50% baloney... So has anyone tried the game on that video card or a lesser one? And how did it go?

I am running the GOG version on the following machine, no overclocking:

Ryzen 5 1500X
8GB of 2666mhz DDR4
MSI Gaming X GTX 1050 Ti 4GB

The game is running just fine for me at 1080p. The GTX 950 is a weaker card than the 1050 Ti, but I think it should run fine? If any issues did arise, I would assume a resolution drop would fix it instantly given how well it runs for me on the 1050 Ti.

I also have a RX 460 4GB card, with 896 stream processors, which would more closely match the 950, but I have not installed it on that machine yet.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:01 am 



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I didn't back for PS4, so I didn't read the PS4 Stage Pass thing on the Team R-Type Final 2 website's thing until just now, but it says that those who backed for digital Switch and Xbox One in Asia/Japan and physical Switch versions will get theirs next week. I wonder what's taking them so long, but hopefully they get those out on time and perhaps even get the Japanese Switch DLC stages released faster, as it's quite strange that the international Switch DLC stages are apparently available. Not to be too greedy, but I do also wonder how long it will take for them to patch all of the ships into the game.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:51 am 


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Herr Schatten wrote:

How would you rate the three paths, difficulty-wise? I‘ve got the first five stages down, so I can no-miss them consistently, but I can't decide which would be the best path for my first clear. So far I mostly went with .2, but the boss is really difficult with a low firing-rate ship like the Arrowhead. Last time I tried the .0 route and that seemed much more manageable immediately. Didn't make it to the boss there, though, so maybe it gets worse.

Seconding this. No other game in the series has ever forced me to play so dynamically.


I think 6.0 and 6.1 gave me the biggest pain, but it simply meant that I had to figure out tactics for that one. 7.2. had a rather painful spot which I only could clear with full dose.

But I'm not sure if I am the best player to comment because..

SPM wrote:
I think Mark was talking about normal mode when saying so. And to be fair, the default mode for new players (normal/original/etc) should be engaging and not feel empty-ish (leaving that to easier modes). But I don't know, haven't played it yet...


..I have a shock revelation for you: I played through every route on PRACTICE! Because I want to get a feel on the stage layouts and ships before I throw myself into a meat grinder! I don't have the patience I used to have for getting killed 100 times on a level, thats why multiple difficulty levels make this so sweet, I can just work my way up. That's how I rolled with Gradius deluxe pack and now I can 1cc Gradius I & II (I admit it took some time though).

And yet, even on practice, I was forced to play dynamically, needed all the weapons equally, and was forced to learn some tactics(!!) Which proves that Mark really has no god damn clue what he is talking about. He is perfect embodiment of my stereotypical image of an average youtube reviewer, guy who spends more time basking on/trying to get attention rather than actually trying to play the games he reviews.

Retrogame magazine seems to have a big feature on R-type series on their latest issue, I guess I need to check it out, as well as their review. I used to subscribe it for many years, but then canceled when they started to move into 00's games.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 6:47 am 


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MJR wrote:
I think 6.0 and 6.1 gave me the biggest pain, but it simply meant that I had to figure out tactics for that one. 7.2. had a rather painful spot which I only could clear with full dose.

I haven't actually tried 6.1 yet. It looks quite intimidating. Boss aside, 6.2 has two tight spots, the double mecha assault and the giant penis snake. I think I'll stick to 6.0 for a while and see how that goes. The stage doesn't seem to have any spots requiring quick reflexes, so some good routing and deploying the force strategically (ha!) will hopefully see me through it.

MJR wrote:
I don't have the patience I used to have for getting killed 100 times on a level, thats why multiple difficulty levels make this so sweet, I can just work my way up.

I'm playing normal and I'm using stage practice for a similar effect. Usually I practice the latest stage until I feel confident, then start with a full run, and if I reach a stage I haven't been to before, I credit feed through it to make it available in score attack.

MJR wrote:
Retrogame magazine seems to have a big feature on R-type series on their latest issue, I guess I need to check it out, as well as their review. I used to subscribe it for many years, but then canceled when they started to move into 00's games.

I used to have a subscription, too, but canceled it after the magazine got sold to the new publisher. Immediately after, my copies started arriving first three, then four, then six weeks late (opposed to the 3 days it used to take them), then stopped reaching me altogether. Their customer service only sent out automatic mails. I gathered they were clearly not interested in keeping me as a customer.

Thanks for the heads up, though, I might try to pick up that latest issue from somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 10:45 am 


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.2-route is by far the easiest IMO. With enough power you can disarm the snake before it fires once, the 6.2 boss has a safespot. Stage 7.2 isn't any harder either. But all of this depends on your ship really.

I cannot for the life of me beat the Stage 2 boss on R-typer difficulty, while the rest of the .2-route I can clear in my sleep...


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 1:11 pm 


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Apologise.


Firehawke wrote:
So, a silly trivia question:

Did you ever catch the massive in-joke in regards to the R-9K Sunday Strike?

Spoiler: show
It's a "cheap, mass-produced" R-9C in the same way that Super R-Type is a "cheap, mass-produced" R-Type 2, and has the weapons accordingly.


I'm ashamed to admit I didn't catch it back in the day when playing Final 1, or at least I don't remember catching it. A lot of thought went into the extra ships, even if they weren't particularly well balanced.

I've mentioned this before but I first interpreted the R-9K as a dig at certain euros, with the green canopy of the Katakis ship and the flat bottom of the Z-Out ship. "cheap imitation" What's interesting is that a lot of ships featured in Final were first seen in this lore book that came out all the way back in 1991. That's part of my problem with the direction the franchise went after Delta, with devs trying to make games out of this comic (and R's library) instead of pushing the concept forward as Delta did.

As for the R-9K, its a pretty powerful ship now. I don't remember the blue laser having homing abilities before and the shotgun laser fills the screen with shrapnel. It's drawback is that the split wave cannon doesn't seem to hit directly in front of your ship now. Point-blanking with a level 2 charge was super effective in R-Type II but no longer seems to work. It's also the only other ship besides the Arrowhead that seems to have significant work put into it's character model. I have a fleet of these things in Operation: Bitter Chocolate, they're one of the fastest ships that can carry a force.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 1:15 pm 



Joined: 13 May 2021
Posts: 11
Hi all

Thanks for all the responses folks. Seems like I don't need a stick, just more patience! I managed to get the weird extra 300k on a Bydo run. Will stick a link on here if my horrendous internet will ever let me upload it.

Regarding the game being boring on lower difficulties for newcomers, I couldn't disagree more. The big range of difficulties makes the game really welcoming for less skilled or experienced players. The fact that each setting changes the number of enemies but keeps the main stage hazards means it does a great job of teaching you on lower settings. I managed to get a Bydo no miss thanks to clearing the easier difficulties. The occasional spot where not much is happening is actually a welcome breather for those more stupidly fingered.

Now to try and beat R-Typer 1 (hmmmmm)

I've been loving it, though I can see there are problems. It's probably the most fun I've had with an stg in ages.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:44 pm 


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Quote:
The game is running just fine for me at 1080p. The GTX 950 is a weaker card than the 1050 Ti, but I think it should run fine? If any issues did arise, I would assume a resolution drop would fix it instantly given how well it runs for me on the 1050 Ti.

Nice! Thanks for the data point.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 4:12 pm 


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MJR wrote:
SPM wrote:
I think Mark was talking about normal mode when saying so. And to be fair, the default mode for new players (normal/original/etc) should be engaging and not feel empty-ish (leaving that to easier modes). But I don't know, haven't played it yet...
..I have a shock revelation for you: I played through every route on PRACTICE! (...) And yet, even on practice, I was forced to play dynamically, needed all the weapons equally, and was forced to learn some tactics(!!) Which proves that Mark really has no god damn clue what he is talking about. He is perfect embodiment of my stereotypical image of an average youtube reviewer, guy who spends more time basking on/trying to get attention rather than actually trying to play the games he reviews.

That only makes me happy and more excited to play it :D

But I'll wait for the "final" version, with improved respawning/loading times on Switch... And well... A polished and finished game (which in my opinion this is not yet).
It's not like there's no shmups to play in between :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 4:50 pm 


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Voxbox wrote:
.2-route is by far the easiest IMO. With enough power you can disarm the snake before it fires once, the 6.2 boss has a safespot. Stage 7.2 isn't any harder either. But all of this depends on your ship really.

Sadly, the safespot doesn't work with the R-9A, which is also too weak to disarm the snake before it becomes a threat. However, I gave the .2-route another try, and this time I made it to 7.2, past the two bydo things getting it on. Unfortunately, the wall of bydo ships that followed stopped me for now.

My successful strategy for surviving the stage 6.2 boss was detaching the force, so it can stop some of the homing blue lasers with its downward shot, while dodging the remaining ones, always staying at the upper edge of the screen outside the red laser's range. This way it's quite manageable to time out the boss.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 6:36 pm 


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^I bomb this guy. With rear facing lasers, I can survive in the danger zone for a couple of seconds. It's easy enough to grind and blast the core while keeping between it's red lasers, bombing at the last second when you feel you're overwhelmed by the blue shots. After that, it's only another couple of seconds in the danger zone before he goes down. 6.2 plays like one long puzzle to get your dose from 0 to 100% although I still mess it up occasionally. Surely bombing is no more or less of a strategy than safe spots and time outs.

I find 7.2 wall of bydo ships pretty manageable but you can bomb past it, as that creepy bandaged Gommander thing will refill your dose if you let it capture your force. The demonic lover things seem pretty pointless, they spend a lot of time off in the background or off the back of the screen (like that couple from the last stage of Final 1). I experimented trying to max out my dose against them but I'm pretty sure they home in on your ship if you take too long.

All that being said, it does seem like 6.0 is the simpler route, as theres no bomb reliance at all. 7.0 has one Cancer who attacks from behind, he's the only guy who puts any pressure on you. The rest can be easily figured out. The large group of enemies that comes from behind for Happy Days to shoot down do not fire at you, at least on normal.

6.1 is pure evil. Why go through all that just to get turned into a Bydo?
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:03 pm 



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What do you guys think is the easiest route right now? I got my first 1cc on normal 7.0 since 7.0 seemed easier than 7.1 or 7.2. 6.0 boss got a lot easier for me after I started using No Chaser on it, even on R-TYPER difficulty it went down really quickly. No idea what the hp increase is like on R-TYPER 2/3


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final 7.2 scoring trick solved
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 2:45 am 



Joined: 13 May 2021
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Hey folks

I finally figured out how those extra points are triggered in 7.2 using the Leo2. I've got it to work in every difficulty up to R -Typer 1 now. You need to have the psy-bits equipped, so Leo 2 only I think? On the first miniboss, the demonic lovers, after hitting them multiple times with wave shots when they first fly round the screen, fully charge a wave shot and release it to hit them with the psy-bits as they fly in from the left while they have stuck their tongues down each others throats (ew). You have to make sure that the psy-bits are firing their lasers rightwards (away from the boss). It seems you have to kill them with the psy bits exclusively. This should kill them, and seems to net approx 200-300k. Haven't seen it work with other ships, but who knows? This is on Ps4 Pro.

Hope someone checks it out and gets it to work.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 11:52 am 



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Hey all

Here's a link of my 7.2 score attack R-typer with the mystery extra points. I get 400k this time!

Give it a watch if you can. The score boost is at 1.15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qhYvzoWWdo


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:07 pm 


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riichi wrote:
What do you guys think is the easiest route right now? I got my first 1cc on normal 7.0 since 7.0 seemed easier than 7.1 or 7.2. 6.0 boss got a lot easier for me after I started using No Chaser on it, even on R-TYPER difficulty it went down really quickly. No idea what the hp increase is like on R-TYPER 2/3

7.2 seems pretty easy. One tricky section with the two robots on stage 6.2, otherwise just park in the upper right corner and the stage/boss is done. 7.2 requires some basic routing but nothing complicated. Boss is a pushover if you fire the force into it.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:47 pm 


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Icarus wrote:
The problem here is that he's incapable of separating fact from opinion, is terrible at researching information prior to making content, and doesn't take criticism very well.
Which are three strikes against many "content creators", especially ones producing reviews.


He definitely can’t take criticism, he’s got that “alpha nerd” thing going. I like a lot of his videos, but this review did run me the wrong way. Deleting comments was pretty weak too.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:04 am 


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decalcomania wrote:
Hey all

Here's a link of my 7.2 score attack R-typer with the mystery extra points. I get 400k this time!

Give it a watch if you can. The score boost is at 1.15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qhYvzoWWdo


Very cool trick. Thanks for sharing!
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:08 am 


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decalcomania wrote:
Hey all

Here's a link of my 7.2 score attack R-typer with the mystery extra points. I get 400k this time!

Give it a watch if you can. The score boost is at 1.15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qhYvzoWWdo


That's a lot of points. :o Sex sells, even grotesque Gigeresque sex :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 4:06 am 



Joined: 15 Dec 2017
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Bought the Switch version day one and had some fun with it despite the stutter. I played the demo first and usually I wouldn't touch a game with such bad performance when there's better versions out there but I couldn't help myself since I'm a sucker for handheld gaming.

Anyways, I sometimes ask for impressions on multiplatform games so I can get the best version and find it a bit frustrating when people say things like it "feels fine" or "it was smooth for me", especially when talking Switch. I'm not trying to be the frame rate police or anything but I think people need to be a bit more honest with themselves and others. The Switch version of Final 2 is choppy as hell with downgraded visuals to boot. Definitely the last time I buy anything mutiplatform on the Switch.

Now I'm just playing it on the PS4 Pro and its pretty much flawless so far. Once I get my hands on a PS5 it'll only be that much better.

Hopefully once the new Switch comes out, they will update it to be on par with the other versions but that's just speculation, not what's here and now.


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:09 am 


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Darkseed_5150 wrote:
I'm not trying to be the frame rate police or anything but I think people need to be a bit more honest with themselves and others. The Switch version of Final 2 is choppy as hell


I honestly don't feel any choppiness in Switch Final 2, other than the 5-second occurrence in stage 7.1. But I've also never played it in handheld mode.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:43 am 



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Cheers BIL/ Starflare

Let me know if you can get it to work, or can figure out how it works exactly!


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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:23 am 


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Ghegs wrote:
Darkseed_5150 wrote:
I'm not trying to be the frame rate police or anything but I think people need to be a bit more honest with themselves and others. The Switch version of Final 2 is choppy as hell


I honestly don't feel any choppiness in Switch Final 2, other than the 5-second occurrence in stage 7.1. But I've also never played it in handheld mode.
Man I also bought the game twice, on Switch and Pro. Switch is super choopy, runs at an unstable frame rate and very low resolution. I could live with the loadings but performance is bad. And we all know Switch can run this with its eye closed. Its just bad optimisation... Im sure they will patch it tough.
But on Handheld is ok. Ive been playing Switch version in portable mode and it plays fine like that... On a tv is another story.
Ps4 Pro on the other hand runs flawlessly with fast loadings.

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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:10 am 


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The more i play this the more i warm up to it. Quality of the latter stages definitely helps.

The changes from ship to ship felt more incremental in the original, not so much here. I've been playing for quite a while now and my usage of the wave canon has decreased by >50% while playing with the force ' out' has increased by the same percentage if not more. The game looks and feels like the OG Final (except for artistic/acoustic coherency/consistancy) but my playstyle/ approach is quite different this time around. Variety being the spice of life i guess thats a good thing :) .

Love the vibe in all of the final stages and wish i could link them up in he stage compiler. The Seahorse/Connector cable hybrids from stage 7.2 are beautiful and well designed originals (are they, don't recall seeing them before in the bydo universe?) and the icy backdrop with frozen pharaoh watchdogs and R-types looked spectacular. The sound effect of some of the enemies blends in beautifully with the stage soundtrack as well. Hope there's more like that in the stages to come.

Japanese ps2 is sounding like it's dying and since they are the only way to play Delta and Final (without emulating) i really hope this game is successful enough to convince Kujo-san to give those titles a small lick of HD paint and add them to the R-Type Final Universe for a nice price.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:26 pm 



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Finally got sent a code and input it and got a message saying wrong region. Anyone else had this? I've just got back onto the help section to resend another code.
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 Post subject: Re: R-Type Final2
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:44 pm 


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Darkseed_5150 wrote:
I'm not trying to be the frame rate police or anything but I think people need to be a bit more honest with themselves and others. The Switch version of Final 2 is choppy as hell with downgraded visuals to boot. Definitely the last time I buy anything mutiplatform on the Switch.


Considering 60fps has been the standard for probably at least 90% of shmups released over the last 35 years, I'm surprised there aren't more people noticing Final 2's framerate stutters on a variety of platforms. It's pretty egregious on Switch and the One X and is unacceptable to me. I'd be more forgiving if they opted for a slowdown model to deal with framerate issues, as used in prior R-Type games (Final, Delta, etc), but the frame skipping utilized here just makes those frame dips all the more jarring, particularly when you're already dealing with other issues, like things being difficult to see, and your hitbox seeming massive compared to prior games.

Austin wrote:
Hm, I wonder if the patch improves the performance on the One X. Will try it and report back.


To follow up: The patch does improve it at a handful of parts, but performance is still all over the place and unacceptable overall. It really hinders the enjoyment of the game.
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