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 Post subject: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:34 am 


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I've been working on this the past few days, mostly because I'm curious if there's any truth to the commonly held knowledge that there was a crossover of 240p compatibility on Virtual Console titles. I figure that if anything this list, when more complete, could at least point people to certain rarer titles that might otherwise be cost/system prohibitive.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... XvVSY52hoA

If anyone can refute some of these that would be helpful. Or even just add to it.

One thing is does make me curious about though is if it's possible to edit those VC titles that don't allow for 240p to allow for it. I assume it's a flag somewhere in the embedded emulator.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:50 am 


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Einzelherz wrote:
One thing is does make me curious about though is if it's possible to edit those VC titles that don't allow for 240p to allow for it. I assume it's a flag somewhere in the embedded emulator.


Yup, you can edit the 480i VC games to output at 240p. I've done it for the PC Engine games and it seems to work perfectly. Basically the VC games come in a zip file that contains the emulator, settings, rom and meta information. You can just take the emulator from a 240p game and pack it into a 480i VC game.

I wrote a tutorial on how to do this last year, but it's in German. Maybe Google Translate will help. Link


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:03 am 


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Vielen Dank!

If I'm reading correctly, I need to have a 240p capable version of the emulator first? Specifically something I'm interested in is turning on 240p for N64 games, which it seems none of them work properly with it - meaning there's no 240p emulator?

edit: Doing some more reading and it seems that there is/was no 240p N64 emulator. But for other games, like TG16 I suppose I can use the above guide or similar wad injection guides for other games like on the TG16.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:35 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Location: Ohio
Einzelherz wrote:
Vielen Dank!

If I'm reading correctly, I need to have a 240p capable version of the emulator first? Specifically something I'm interested in is turning on 240p for N64 games, which it seems none of them work properly with it - meaning there's no 240p emulator?

edit: Doing some more reading and it seems that there is/was no 240p N64 emulator. But for other games, like TG16 I suppose I can use the above guide or similar wad injection guides for other games like on the TG16.

Why would you want 320x240p instead of 640x480p for the Nintendo 64? N64 games are the only games on the Wii Virtual Console that can render in native 480p, which is an impressive advantage over the original hardware's 240p and 480i formats. Even N64 games that were originally rendered in 240p benefit from the increased clarity of 480i.

EDIT: I guess if you wanted the original resolution, or if you only had an SD CRT and don't like the flicker of 480i, while wanting scanlines.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:51 am 


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Yeah, N64 games look better at 480i on VC, since they're actually running at higher res than they did originally. Well, 3D games at least, I haven't played any sprite-based N65 games.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:03 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:
Vielen Dank!

If I'm reading correctly, I need to have a 240p capable version of the emulator first? Specifically something I'm interested in is turning on 240p for N64 games, which it seems none of them work properly with it - meaning there's no 240p emulator?

edit: Doing some more reading and it seems that there is/was no 240p N64 emulator. But for other games, like TG16 I suppose I can use the above guide or similar wad injection guides for other games like on the TG16.



EDIT: I guess if you wanted the original resolution, or if you only had an SD CRT and don't like the flicker of 480i, while wanting scanlines.


That ^

On my HDTV I'll be glad to enjoy it in 480p, but since I don't own and probably won't ever own an N64 and most of the games I'd ever play for it are on the VC, I'd like to see them that way.

And BazookaBen, the sprite overlays can look wonky on some of the 480i/p games.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:00 am 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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Does anyone know if you can change the output resolution in Wii VC from 240p to 224p? I ask because Neo-Geo games running in Wii VC at 240p look like a jagged mess and I believe it is because they are being output at the incorrect resolution in Virtual Console. The native resolution of Neo-Geo games is 320x224 and 304x224. Neo-Geo games look great when running them in retroarch for Wii at their native resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:29 am 


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Brad251 wrote:
Does anyone know if you can change the output resolution in Wii VC from 240p to 224p? I ask because Neo-Geo games running in Wii VC at 240p look like a jagged mess and I believe it is because they are being output at the incorrect resolution in Virtual Console. The native resolution of Neo-Geo games is 320x224 and 304x224. Neo-Geo games look great when running them in retroarch for Wii at their native resolution.


are you sure it's not just the harshness of the video output? when playing in retro arch Wii do you have bilinear filtering disabled?


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:24 pm 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 168
Yes, I have bilinear filtering disabled. There is no harshness in the video output. I am using component cables and everything else I play on my Sony KV-27FV310 looks great; even non Neo-Geo games running in 240p. I suspect that Neo-Geo games on the virtual console are not running at native resolution in 240p mode. Some people in other forums have experienced the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:43 pm 


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I only played one, Metal Slug, and it looked good to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:20 pm 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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The Metal Slug games don't look as bad. I tested out KOF '98, KOF '99, The Last Blade and Real Bout Fatal Fury 2 and the graphics are very jagged looking. The anti-aliasing effect of what is normally found with scanlines is absent when running these games in 240p mode in Virtual Console.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:00 am 


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Brad251 wrote:
The Metal Slug games don't look as bad. I tested out KOF '98, KOF '99, The Last Blade and Real Bout Fatal Fury 2 and the graphics are very jagged looking. The anti-aliasing effect of what is normally found with scanlines is absent when running these games in 240p mode in Virtual Console.


are you sure it's actually running them in 240p mode? some later virtual console titles defaulted to 480i because Nintendo was getting reports of people having problems with 240p ( lots of TVs around the time didn't properly support the resolution and wouldn't even show a picture)

some of the 480i games (like comic zone) can be set back to 240p by using the menu trick

Code:
Playing in 240p
In order to play some VC games in 240p, your Wii needs to be set to 480i mode.  Then follow this procedure:

1. Set your Wii to 480i mode (I had mine set to 4:3 as well...I'm not sure if that matters). This will not work in 480p mode.
2. Start a Virtual Console game.
2. Press the Home button to bring up the Home menu, and then click on Operations Guide.
3. Attach a Nunchuk controller to your Wii remote (if the classic controller is plugged in, you'll have to remove it to do this).
4. Press A+1+Z simultaneously (A and 1 are on your Wii remote, Z on your Nunchuk).
5. You should hear a sound confirming that you've done this correctly. This should activate 240p mode for all VC games that are 240p-compatible.
6. To switch to 480i mode for VC, follow the same steps as above, but press A+2+Z instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:07 pm 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 168
Blair wrote:
Brad251 wrote:
The Metal Slug games don't look as bad. I tested out KOF '98, KOF '99, The Last Blade and Real Bout Fatal Fury 2 and the graphics are very jagged looking. The anti-aliasing effect of what is normally found with scanlines is absent when running these games in 240p mode in Virtual Console.


are you sure it's actually running them in 240p mode? some later virtual console titles defaulted to 480i because Nintendo was getting reports of people having problems with 240p ( lots of TVs around the time didn't properly support the resolution and wouldn't even show a picture)

some of the 480i games (like comic zone) can be set back to 240p by using the menu trick

Code:
Playing in 240p
In order to play some VC games in 240p, your Wii needs to be set to 480i mode.  Then follow this procedure:

1. Set your Wii to 480i mode (I had mine set to 4:3 as well...I'm not sure if that matters). This will not work in 480p mode.
2. Start a Virtual Console game.
2. Press the Home button to bring up the Home menu, and then click on Operations Guide.
3. Attach a Nunchuk controller to your Wii remote (if the classic controller is plugged in, you'll have to remove it to do this).
4. Press A+1+Z simultaneously (A and 1 are on your Wii remote, Z on your Nunchuk).
5. You should hear a sound confirming that you've done this correctly. This should activate 240p mode for all VC games that are 240p-compatible.
6. To switch to 480i mode for VC, follow the same steps as above, but press A+2+Z instead.


Yes, I use this method to set the games in 240p mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:24 pm 



Joined: 28 Nov 2012
Posts: 65
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I have almost all of the Neo Geo VC games and all of the ones that I have run in 240p and look fantastic.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:34 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 581
Location: Ohio
masqdgamer wrote:
I have almost all of the Neo Geo VC games and all of the ones that I have run in 240p and look fantastic.

this

Also, I don't think it would matter if you changed the resolution to 224p unless you have a PVM or BVM. On consumer sets, it'll stretch to fit 240p/480i.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:31 am 



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 7
There is no difference between 224p and 240p as far as scan rates and resolution of processing/display hardware goes. 224p has 224 ACTIVE lines out of 240, and 16 black lines with no content displayed. They scan exactly the same. It's just a matter of which lines are displaying pixels. 224p just has more lines that are painted black at the top and the bottom of the image to fill out 240p.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:49 pm 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 168
I don't know what to say. There is a stair stepping effect on the edges of all the sprites that I don't think should be there. Even the Neo-Geo logo at the start up screen looks jagged. I have not noticed this problem in any other games that I play on my CRT in 240p.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:30 pm 



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 7
Is there a game you think is especially bad aka a good example?

I will take native 240p caps tonight (from the passthrough of my broadcast monitor) and post them to see if it matches what you are seeing.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:28 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 581
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I've heard that Wii VC games are essentially stored in a folder on the Wii System Memory / SD Card, which contain the ROM, emulator and settings. Maybe it's possible to edit the settings, emulator or ROM to allow VC games to render at their native resolutions, or possibly render at 480p?


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:07 pm 


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Rendering VC at 480p, I believe you just set the Wii to 480p and that's it. That causes the N64 VC to render at 480p, anyhow.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:48 pm 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 168
beer monkey wrote:
Is there a game you think is especially bad aka a good example?

I will take native 240p caps tonight (from the passthrough of my broadcast monitor) and post them to see if it matches what you are seeing.


KOF '98 and '99 look especially bad. Real Bout Fatal Fury 2, Samurai Shodown IV and The Last Blade 2 don't look as bad but still look bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:12 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Guspaz wrote:
Rendering VC at 480p, I believe you just set the Wii to 480p and that's it. That causes the N64 VC to render at 480p, anyhow.

Yes, but that is only the case for N64 games. Every other system on Wii VC outputs at 240p/480i.

I know that 240p compatible VC games like NES, SNES, Genesis, Neo-Geo, etc. cannot run in 240p if the Wii is set to 480p. I'm not sure if the Wii upscales it or not though, if not the TV.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:22 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
Yes, but that is only the case for N64 games. Every other system on Wii VC outputs at 240p/480i.


Are you sure? I thought NTSC consoles would output all/most VC games at 480p too when the consoles is set to 480p. Doesn't work with PAL VC games though. Or maybe I just tested Chrono Trigger which is a special case.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:27 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 581
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blizzz wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
Yes, but that is only the case for N64 games. Every other system on Wii VC outputs at 240p/480i.


Are you sure? I thought NTSC consoles would output all/most VC games at 480p too when the consoles is set to 480p. Doesn't work with PAL VC games though. Or maybe I just tested Chrono Trigger which is a special case.

Yes

http://retrorgb.com/wiivsclassic.html

Quote:
Playing in 240p
In order to play VC games in 240p, your Wii needs to be set to 480i mode. Then follow this procedure:

1. Set your Wii to 480i mode (I had mine set to 4:3 as well...I'm not sure if that matters). This will not work in 480p mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:05 am 


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That just says that you can't get 240p if you set the console to 480p. Instead, you get 480p, with the VC handling the upscale. The quality of which varies depending on the emulated system. Which just goes back to the point: you don't need to edit any sort of config files to get 480p output on the virtual console, just set the whole Wii to progressive and it'll output in 480p. Not ideal from a quality standpoint, but a potential latency/compatibility improvement on HDTVs.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:19 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Quote:
Instead, you get 480p, with the VC handling the upscale. The quality of which varies depending on the emulated system.

Well, the default resolution for all Wii VC games is 480i. So I imagine it wouldn't be upscaled to the system's 480p output, but rather de-interlaced.

Guspaz wrote:
Which just goes back to the point: you don't need to edit any sort of config files to get 480p output on the virtual console, just set the whole Wii to progressive and it'll output in 480p. Not ideal from a quality standpoint, but a potential latency/compatibility improvement on HDTVs.

True, but there should be a way to edit config files to allow every VC game to render in native 480p. That way you can keep your Wii in 480p all the time without ever having to switch back and forth, and enjoy the increased resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:29 am 


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GeneraLight wrote:
Quote:
Instead, you get 480p, with the VC handling the upscale. The quality of which varies depending on the emulated system.

Well, the default resolution for all Wii VC games is 480i. So I imagine it wouldn't be upscaled to the system's 480p output, but rather de-interlaced.

Guspaz wrote:
Which just goes back to the point: you don't need to edit any sort of config files to get 480p output on the virtual console, just set the whole Wii to progressive and it'll output in 480p. Not ideal from a quality standpoint, but a potential latency/compatibility improvement on HDTVs.

True, but there should be a way to edit config files to allow every VC game to render in native 480p. That way you can keep your Wii in 480p all the time without ever having to switch back and forth, and enjoy the increased resolution.


That's what Guspaz just said. Run in 480p and every VC game is in 480p. My own experience confirms this.


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 Post subject: Re: Wii VC 240p mode list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:40 am 



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 7
I made a quick album showing photos, and screencaps, of KOF99 on my Wii.

http://imgur.com/a/9xsol

FWIW there were exactly 224 active (non black) lines on the USB3HDCAP BMPs of the screens.

Maybe somebody can take screenshots from MAME to compare, I don't do MAME.


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