Ibara port's graphics

[lazydazy]

hi res or low res = I am not sure

only looking at TATE mode..

I am pretty sure a "blur" filter exists like Mushi since the screen
ibara tate feels much softer compared to ESPGAULDA tate mode,
but after comparing it with Mushi tate, Ibara tate seems to show a more sharper, crisp image.

[shariar07]

Graphic wise its much more crisp than Mushi, if someone can explain low res and high res difference to me i can answer the question. My brother and i played it together and lets just say its not ment to be played by more than 1 person, too much debris.

[GaijinPunch]

Graphic wise its much more crisp than Mushi, if someone can explain low res and high res difference to me i can answer the question.

Can you see scanlines? Why not take a digital photo of it (as high resolution as possible) and post it. We might be able to tell.

[shariar07]

Yeah i will take some pictures, there is No Scanlines at all. I will take some later today

[Dave_K.]

Yeah i will take some pictures, there is No Scanlines at all. I will take some later today

Graphic wise its much more crisp than Mushi, if someone can explain low res and high res difference to me i can answer the question. My brother and i played it together and lets just say its not ment to be played by more than 1 person, too much debris.

To be honest, if you are playing on a TV with PS2 -> composite input (single yellow "video" cable), you may not notice much difference between interlaced and non-interlaced lowres. If you can't see scanlines (while in tate mode), its most likely interlaced.

This entire debate about scaled/filetered/interlaced graphics really only applies to people with RGB input TV/Monitors or component input TV/Monitors which can be rotated.

I'll be able to make a formal assessment as soon as my order comes in (next week).

[GaijinPunch]

I think the difference is still discernable in S-Video, although it's obviously not as nice as RGB.

[SAM]

Yeah, we know all that stuff. Is it in high res or low res.

It's interlance like Mushi. Low Res of cause.

The acrade orginal is Low Res, why would the port be high res? Well unless you upscan the image.

[GaijinPunch]

The acrade orginal is Low Res, why would the port be high res? Well unless you upscan the image.

YOu answered your own question.

[elvis]

Yeah, we know all that stuff. Is it in high res or low res.

It's interlance like Mushi. Low Res of cause.

The acrade orginal is Low Res, why would the port be high res? Well unless you upscan the image.

People on here seem to be confusing their terms.

Final output resolution is hardware dependant. "Hi-res" by definition is 480p, or VGA. Low-res is CGA 15KHz modes, which most games are on PS2.

I think what people are inferring is that the game applies bilinear filtering to smooth out the final picture. This is a great idea on true hi-res HARDWARE when using a game that has a physical resolution lower than the output resolution and needs to be scaled UP (eg: running a low-res game on a true 480p hardware mode on a true 31KHz VGA monitor), but to do so on an already blurry TV is just stupid.

So I think what people are asking is "is the game filtered?" rather than "is it hi-res?".

ESP-Galuda offers 5 modes - yoke, tate and "tatehoise" left and right. The "tate" modes are true unfiltered output. All the other modes (including these "tatehoise" modes) are scaled and filtered.

Why games even offer filtering, I'll never know. It really is only useful for true hi-res (480p) games and for people on high quality display devices, both of which are the minority of gamers. Companies should be turning filtering OFF by default, and leaving it only as an option (I played Tekken5 the other day on my RGB monitor, and it offered separate hires/lowres and filtered/non-filtered options independant of each other).

I would hazard a guess that filtering pisses 50% of the population off, and the other 49% don't notice. Leaving the final 1% who actually use real hires games on real hidef hardware and actually enjoy the filtering.

[freddiebamboo]

Stuff about resolutions

I think what people mean is "does it look like the PCB?" without having to have recap-style knowledge on the subject.

If it looks a bit better than mushi, I'll be a happy man.

[Acid King]

I would hazard a guess that filtering pisses 50% of the population off, and the other 49% don't notice. Leaving the final 1% who actually use real hires games on real hidef hardware and actually enjoy the filtering.

I think filtering pisses off like less than 1%. The rest don't care because it almost never affects the playability of the game.

[elvis]

I think filtering pisses off like less than 1%. The rest don't care because it almost never affects the playability of the game.

Actually you're probably right. I sometimes forget the sheer volume of mindless gamers out there in the real world.

[GaijinPunch]

It was referred to as "fake high res" by Recap, and makes sense in a way. Low res sprites interlaced to look good on a high res screen. It doesn't really have anything to do w/ 480P, vga, etc... aren't there only like 8 games on the PS2 that do this?

Affect the playability? Hmmm.... definitely does for me. If my eyes start hurting, that affects how I play. Then again, it takes me about 10 full plays to get used to monitor (being completely upright) compared to a cab (tilted back slightly).

[SAM]

Final output resolution is hardware dependant. "Hi-res" by definition is 480p, or VGA. Low-res is CGA 15KHz modes, which most games are on PS2.

I think what people are inferring is that the game applies bilinear filtering to smooth out the final picture. This is a great idea on true hi-res HARDWARE when using a game that has a physical resolution lower than the output resolution and needs to be scaled UP (eg: running a low-res game on a true 480p hardware mode on a true 31KHz VGA monitor), but to do so on an already blurry TV is just stupid.

So I think what people are asking is "is the game filtered?" rather than "is it hi-res?".

Well it got the same kind of filter as MushiHime.

ESP-Galuda offers 5 modes - yoke, tate and "tatehoise" left and right. The "tate" modes are true unfiltered output. All the other modes (including these "tatehoise" modes) are scaled and filtered.

Why games even offer filtering, I'll never know. It really is only useful for true hi-res (480p) games and for people on high quality display devices, both of which are the minority of gamers. Companies should be turning filtering OFF by default, and leaving it only as an option (I played Tekken5 the other day on my RGB monitor, and it offered separate hires/lowres and filtered/non-filtered options independant of each other).

I would hazard a guess that filtering pisses 50% of the population off, and the other 49% don't notice. Leaving the final 1% who actually use real hires games on real hidef hardware and actually enjoy the filtering.[/quote]
Well the effect is the image is burr on my 29" Astro City RGB monitor; while it is clear and sharp on my 21' TV using Composit Vedio in.

That means we got clearer image on a TV and worser image on an RGB monitor. The problem is a TV to be tateable, it cannot be very large. And those my option is...

(1) Clear and sharp on a 21" Screen.
(2) Burr Image on a 29" Screen.
(3) Pay 45,000 yen and got True Low Res on 29" Screen.

****************************************

I always think that there is a few verticle lines droped in both MushiHime and Ibara. Prove you don't got a perfect sphere circling around you in Mushihime when you first start. (It a perfect when I play the game in an Acrade.)

****************************************
BTW, the load time is a bit long for this game too. But since Ibara don't got the Stage Clear bonus counting screen which could be untilize to start loading data into the buffer. It should be acceptable.

[elvis]

It was referred to as "fake high res" by Recap, and makes sense in a way. Low res sprites interlaced to look good on a high res screen. It doesn't really have anything to do w/ 480P, vga, etc... aren't there only like 8 games on the PS2 that do this?

Sorry, hardware guy. I get a bit anal about people throwing about terms like "hi-res" when they mean other things.

Affect the playability? Hmmm.... definitely does for me. If my eyes start hurting, that affects how I play. Then again, it takes me about 10 full plays to get used to monitor (being completely upright) compared to a cab (tilted back slightly).

I absolutely agree. I find filtered games get really hard to look at after a while (almost like my eyes are convinced they aren't focussing properly, and have to try harder). Headaches follow quickly.

It doesn't worry me much of the time on non-shmups, but due to the very precise nature of shmups and literally pixel-perfect timing needed, it really does affect GAMEPLAY, which is after all the most important part of gaming.

Well the effect is the image is burr on my 29" Astro City RGB monitor; while it is clear and sharp on my 21' TV using Composit Vedio in.

Composite? Do you mean component? Playing games over composite video should be a crime. Blur city!

[SAM]

It was referred to as "fake high res" by Recap, and makes sense in a way. Low res sprites interlaced to look good on a high res screen. It doesn't really have anything to do w/ 480P, vga, etc... aren't there only like 8 games on the PS2 that do this?

No, I am sorry elvis is right about the definition of "Hi-res".

Final output resolution is hardware dependant. "Hi-res" by definition is 480p, or VGA. Low-res is CGA 15KHz modes, which most games are on PS2.

When you buy a Acrade Cab OR RGB monitor, "Hi-res" is refered to VGA or 31kHz; while "Low-res" is RGB or 15kHz.

That's why Recap call it "fake high res", in which the word, fake, means it is not actually "Hi-res".

Anyway, it is NOT non-interlanced and non-filtered. It's interlanced or filtered, I don't know which. And as I said before it's image is clear and sharp on a TV and burr on a RGB monitor.

Affect the playability? Hmmm.... definitely does for me. If my eyes start hurting, that affects how I play. Then again, it takes me about 10 full plays to get used to monitor (being completely upright) compared to a cab (tilted back slightly).

Me too, the burred image on the RGB monitor tired my eyes easily. I have to play it on a TV, and it only got 21"...

[elvis]

And as I said before it's image is clear and sharp on a TV and burr on a RGB monitor.

Yes, I means component, those you got from a DVD player.

BTW, Monster's cable does give clearer image than the Sony's one.

Well, coincidentally I just ordered some component cables for my PS2 a few days back. So I'll have a chance to compare my 26" old RGB monitor at home to the 29" new RGB monitors in the shop to my 31" low-def component CRT TV at home.

80cm (31") CRT TVs are getting so stupidly cheap here in AU at the moment (around AU$400 or US$300) and they all come with component. At that price I'm damn tempted to buy one and decase/tate it to use for a dedicated console shmup setup!

Yeah... derailing thread even further. I won't be getting Ibara for at least another fortnight (not allowed any more purchases until after my birthday, the missus has ordered). Not liking this waiting business!

[Ceph]

It is definitely NOT low res but using some sort of blur filter in tate mode, which unfortunately can't be turend off. That means it's not as crisp as the PCB played on a RGB monitor. But it's by no means bad-looking or giving you eye cancer.

[GaijinPunch]

Sorry, hardware guy. I get a bit anal about people throwing about terms like "hi-res" when they mean other things.

Stick around, you'll see it used more. I'm fairly certain most people knew what was being referred to.

If more people bought these games instead of grabbing them off the intarweb, Taito might be able to afford to add extras like low res modes, you know.

The true mode the pixels were intended for isn't really an extra though, is it?

[Ceph]

If more people bought these games instead of grabbing them off the intarweb, Taito might be able to afford to add extras like low res modes, you know.

Very true, sadly. There's far too many scrubs on these boards who do just that.

I'm under the impression that the vast majority of us purchase the games we like. I don't think there are many people here who just download and do not buy (unless every other shmups board-member is lying about their collection).

Besides, why would it cost money to "include" lo-res??? The game is in lo-res anyway, but they included a filter to make the graphics smooth. All they had to do was include an option to TURN THE FILTER OFF.

[elvis]

Sorry, hardware guy. I get a bit anal about people throwing about terms like "hi-res" when they mean other things.

Stick around, you'll see it used more. I'm fairly certain most people knew what was being referred to.

When a large (or in this case even, small) group of people all use the same incorrect terminology, it doesn't all of a sudden make it right. Filtering and output resolutions are two very different things. Sounds to me like people aren't only mixing them up, but also not understanding the difference. There are plenty of games/hardware (home console, PC, and arcade) out there that offer both varying resolutions and separate filtering. Of course I understand that if your entire experience with seeing a video game is playing a Cave shmup on a PS2 how that would confuse you, but I'm sure folks here have experiences above and beyond that, and should quite probably try to use the correct terminology whenever and whereever possible.

But whatever... that's all sliding way off topic now.

Just make sure it is structurenally strong enough to stand in Tate before you rotate it.

If I buy a 31" screen for dedicated tate, I'll be decasing it and mounting it in a square wooden box with nice strong grab handles and reinforcements, plus fan-forced cooling. I sure as heck won't be leaving it in the cheap plastic casing it comes bundled with!

And at the prices on offer, I don't particular give a stuff about warranty.

[ptoing]

what occured to me is if the filtering on mushi and ibara are posteffects could it be somehow possible to hack em away with an action replay or something similar?

[Texhnolyze]

This board has been hijacked by anal PCB nitpickers. There's too much bitchin' about a $60 console port. If you find the filtering bad, then stop complaining and purchase the $1000+ PCB. The rest of us are enjoying the game.

[Ord]

...Yes, I like to hear more about impressions of the GAMEPLAY.

Same. Ok so it's not low res, but how are you enjoying the game folks. I loved the pcb, and yes it really is a bit of a bitch with the difficulty, but for me it's one of the best shooters out there.

[Ganelon]

Heh, Recap's ghost lives on in this forum.

[Acid King]

Heh, Recap's ghost lives on in this forum.

...and I die a little inside.

[agony]

This board has been hijacked by anal PCB nitpickers. There's too much bitchin' about a $60 console port. If you find the filtering bad, then stop complaining and purchase the $1000+ PCB. The rest of us are enjoying the game.

100% agree

If people don`t like the port, then they should buy the PCB.. oh wait! they should buy both PCBs

and insteadof bitchin here around, they should write a mail to taito or cave or someone else who really hast to say something about that

my 2 euro cent

[ptoing]

how about we write a petition to cave. like get all active peops from this board sign in and someone who knows japanese can write a nice formal mail to them. You never know, it might work.

[Neon]

The true mode the pixels were intended for isn't really an extra though, is it?

Besides, why would it cost money to "include" lo-res??? The game is in lo-res anyway, but they included a filter to make the graphics smooth. All they had to do was include an option to TURN THE FILTER OFF.

Like in the article your buddy Recap posted, they'd be required to redraw the sprites - all of them - to have the game running in arcade resolution.

Don't see why we have to bitch about what we can't control anyways. It's just a waste of time complaining about resolution and the rank system etc.

[Dave_K.]

How about we make a petition to stop talking about low res modes and filters? If someone could please close the old Ibara thread (PS2 Ibara announced), and split this one into Ibara discussion and Ibara filter/display discussion, that would be cool.

I agree the specific rants on lowres could be confined to a seperate thread, but you can't expect people to disregard a problem with this game that affects how its viewed/played. Honestly, there are just as many people bitching about the people who bitch about filters .