4th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

[Zach Keene]

I'll dig up results from previous years in a bit. They're probably in last year's discussion thread somewhere though.

2004 Results
2003 Results
2002 Results

[Turrican]

Excellent, tube shmups are allowed -yay!

btw, what happened to nullstar?

Edit: well, for the sake of discussion, I will post here what I foresee from the upcoming poll. I predict that this will be the year of Raiden DX. I also think there are good chances that the first spot could change after three years of DDP supremacy.

Edit: here's a table I just made for reference:



Legend:

Orange arrow: means a noticeable leap (both up or down) from previous year, like five positions.
Red arrow: means an unbelievable jump, like 9 position up or down from the previous year.
Dark coloured title: means that the game doesn't show up in next year's top 25.

And here's some interesting stats. So far, there have been 24 arcade entries and 15 domestic ones. Cave leads the arcades with six different entries, while the domestic front is split between Konami, Technosoft and Compile, Konami taking the lead with 4 if you count Gradius V as a Konami game.

Arcade entries:

Cave (6): DP, DDP, DDP-DOJ, ESP RADE, ESP Galuda, Guwange
Psikyo (5): Strikers 1945 II, Sengoku Blade, Gunbird, Gunbird 2, Zero Gunner 2
Raizing/8ing (3): Battle Garegga, Soukyugurentai, Batrider
Takumi (2): Marsmatrix, Gigawing
Treasure (2): Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga
1 entry each: Salamander (Konami), R-Type (irem), Raiden DX (Seibu), Batsugun (Toaplan), Rayforce (Taito), Shikigami no Shiro II (Alfa S).

Domestic entries:

Konami (4): Gradius Gaiden, Gradius III Snes, Axelay, Gradius V [573/Treasure]
Compile (3): Musha Aleste, Zanac Neo, Gunhed
Technosoft (3): Thunderforce III, Thunderforce IV, Thunderforce V
Hudson Soft (3): Gate of Thunder, Lords of Thunder, Soldier Blade
1 entry each: Einhander (Square), R-Type Delta (Irem)

2002: with eleven domestic entries, this year feels different from the recent trend. Also, it sports some interesting titles that were never voted again: Gate Of Thunder, Lords of Thunder, Gunhed and Soldier Blade. It's safe to say that 2002 was the peak of PCE/Duo and Hudson Soft love.

2003: in 2003 both Axelay and Gradius Gaiden receive boost, the former getting into the top ten. Battle Garegga is much reconsidered, while Psikyo's crowning jewel (S1945II) slumps several positions, surpassed by Gunbird 2 which will continue to gain popularity. Also noticeable is the classic R-Type coin-op which climbs enough spots to be on the top ten.

2004: even in 2004, domestic releases manage to keep three spots in the top ten, but while Axelay and Musha are sadly gone for good, Gradius Gaiden and V arrive. Gradius V gets first domestic place, usually held by TFIII, which however still makes into the top ten. Marsmatrix and Gaiden are the surprise climbers of the year.

Games that kept falling:

Thunderforce III (2, 3, 6)
ESP RA.DE. (4, 10, 21)
Musha Aleste (6, 8, OOC)
Donpachi (7, 11, 17)
Guwange (13, 14, OOC)

Games that kept rising:

Radiant Silvergun (10, 6, 4)
Soukyugurentai (20, 12, 8 )
Gradius Gaiden (24, 19, 9)
Gunbird 2 (25, 13, 5)

random trivia:

Oldest titles in chart: Salamander (1986), R-Type (1987), Thunderforce III (1989)
Cute'em up factor on this chart - zero
Home computer (C64, MSX etc) love on this chart - zero
Western developed shmups on this chart - zero
8bit shmups love on this chart - zero
Toaplan love - near zero (Batsugun) (not to mention Namco, Capcom, Success nowhere to be found)

[Shatterhand]

I think I'll download Marsmatrix for Mame just so I can play it and see if it fits in my top 25

I've played Gigawing for the first time yesterday And I downloaded Gunbird 2 too, but haven't played it yet

And I hope too, Dodonpachi loses his 1st spot for the 1st time

Funny to notice, last year, from the 4 top shmups, 3 were made by Treasure...

[zinger]

Turrican: that's an awesome table, nice reflections too. What does the differently colored arrows mean exactly? Thanks!

[Turrican]

alternate way to post my top 25 for this year:

[*] [Burning Heat & Farewell]
[*] [Mountainrange - arrange ver.]
[*] [Fantastic - Mid Air]
[*] [Name Entry (RII)]
[*] [Ease Yourself]
[*] [Stage 4]
[*] [Starfield]
[*] [A Rainbow Colored Wind]
[*] [Run! Run! Run!]
[*] [Venus Fire]
[*] [Sound 04]
[*] [2 & 5 Scene BGM]
[*] [Otaku Sky]
[*] [Cemetary]
[*] [Theme of Musha Aleste]
[*] [Steel of Destiny]
[*] [Mother]
[*] [Something Green]
[*] [The Pond]
[*] [Water Melody]
[*] [Green]
[*] [Sensation]
[*] [Evasion - arrange]
[*] [Dropzone - title SE]
[*] [Sound test 02]

[Turrican]

Turrican: that's an awesome table, nice reflections too. What does the differently colored arrows mean exactly? Thanks!

[edit:] Right, I updated my first post with a legend!

[ill6]

Am I blind; Garregga is not in the 04 list?

[Turrican]

Am I blind; Garregga is not in the 04 list?

Sigh... thanks for the heads up. I knew I had to made some mistake. Should be coloured dark.

Sheesh, from fourth spot to out-of-the-chart! That was rough!

[Herr Schatten]

I think DDP is on top of the list for a reason. It's the "other" shmup everyone likes, too. So I'm okay with it topping the chart, even though I never voted for it myself. I also don't know which one of the runners-up I would want to see replace it. Certainly not the three Treasure shooters that are on its tail.

Anyway. Here are my wishes for the upcoming poll: I'd love to see Apidya and Space Manbow enter the honorable mentions list at the very least and a few others (among them Beamrider, Z-Out and Aleste 2) get some more love. Most certainly, that won't happen, though.

I'm very curious to see how Trizeal and Mushi will do, and whether Gradius V will drop considerably, now that the novelty has worn off a bit.

[captain ahar]

i will repeat to myself, "i will actually vote this year... i will actually vote this year... i will actually vote this year... i will actually vote this year..."

[Turrican]

Anyway. Here are my wishes for the upcoming poll: I'd love to see Apidya and Space Manbow enter the honorable mentions list at the very least and a few others (among them Beamrider, Z-Out and Aleste 2) get some more love. Most certainly, that won't happen, though.

There are already two votes for Apidya! So do your part and keep a positive attitude

About Aleste 2, yeah, I had considered to include it, but eventually I had to sacrifice it. My list is already quite Compile-oriented, and I felt the ones I put were their best efforts. Although, yeah - come to think to it, it may have replaced Zanac Neo. That way I would have shown some MSX love. Oh well... next year.

[CIT]

Sheesh, from fourth spot to out-of-the-chart! That was rough!

WTF!? How could this happen!? After all this board is full of Garegga nuts...

[Neon]

I'm very curious to see how Trizeal and Mushi will do, and whether Gradius V will drop considerably, now that the novelty has worn off a bit.

We can only hope. Salamander 2 does Gradius with instant respawns much better. Fuck Treasure in general, actually. Ikaruga's the only one that deserves to be on there and certainly not in the #2 spot.

I voted for 5 games, does my vote have the same 'weight' as the others? I remember last year if you voted for one game your vote counted for less or something.

[it290]

It's interesting to see how much public opinion has changed over the years at this board. For instance, I like Thunder Force V, and a while back there was a fair amount of praise for and discussion about this game, but nowadays it seems like many view it as the red-headed stepchild of the series.

As for newer games, I think Mushi might have a chance, but Trizeal is doomed. DOOMED I say.

[Plasmo]

WTF!? How could this happen!? After all this board is full of Garegga nuts... Question

btw in case you havent noticed its exactly the other way round.guys are mocking poor garegga all the way.

[Rob]

I'm very curious to see how Trizeal and Mushi will do, and whether Gradius V will drop considerably, now that the novelty has worn off a bit.

We can only hope. Salamander 2 does Gradius with instant respawns much better. Fuck Treasure in general, actually. Ikaruga's the only one that deserves to be on there and certainly not in the #2 spot.

Acid King's strawman has sprung to life!

Mushihimesama already looks to be a top 10 contender, proving once and for all that Cave could rehash forever and completely fill up a top 25.

[BulletMagnet]

btw in case you havent noticed its exactly the other way round.guys are mocking poor garegga all the way.

I dunno, from here Cave seems to be the whipping boy of the moment...pretty much any time anyone posts anything less than an insult or Hardcore Brush-Off (tm) to any of their games, he invites a thread full of rolling eyes and "fanboy" accusations. Mock Garegga, on the other hand, and you'll find yourself overrun by angry SMURFs.

Back on topic, quick question: since these things apparently won't be tallied till the deadline, would it be okay to put up a "preliminary" or "tentative" list up on the voting thread to help organize yourself, and edit it into a "final version" later on, sometime before the deadline? Or will that somehow confuse things too much?

[Zach Keene]

I voted for 5 games, does my vote have the same 'weight' as the others? I remember last year if you voted for one game your vote counted for less or something.

Same deal this year. You can vote for less than 25, but then your overall vote will have less weight.

Back on topic, quick question: since these things apparently won't be tallied till the deadline, would it be okay to put up a "preliminary" or "tentative" list up on the voting thread to help organize yourself, and edit it into a "final version" later on, sometime before the deadline?

This is fine.

[Neon]

I'm very curious to see how Trizeal and Mushi will do, and whether Gradius V will drop considerably, now that the novelty has worn off a bit.

We can only hope. Salamander 2 does Gradius with instant respawns much better. Fuck Treasure in general, actually. Ikaruga's the only one that deserves to be on there and certainly not in the #2 spot.

Acid King's strawman has sprung to life!

Damn right. I'm just too elitist, and care too much about my internet hardcoreity, that's the only reason anyone would dislike those games.

Bulletmagnet, the victim I think as far as we've gone is disagreements, never personal attacks. I think (and I know I'm not alone) you're not evil for disliking Garegga. Just wrong

It actually makes sense for Garegga not to be on there. Not because it isn't one of the best (it's a perfect game as well as a huge influence on DDP), but because it doesn't have broad appeal.

[Rob]

Salamander 2? You can say this was a joke any time.

[BulletMagnet]

I think (and I know I'm not alone) you're not evil for disliking Garegga. Just wrong

Who says I disike it? I own the Saturn port, and it'll probably sneak into my Top 25 this year. Not to mention that I've joined "the ranks" (pun intended) of those who defend it against people who misunderstand how the thing works.

The main gulf between myself and the realms of SMURFdom is the fact that I view the thing as less than utterly perfect, heh heh.

(EDIT: And have the gall to actually say so out loud. )

[jp]

I'd like to see RS (which I know won't happen 'round here), Border Down, and Garegga higher.


Actually, I may just vote for those 3 this go round.

[Blade]

RS probably never makes it to the top because so few people have actually played it or have access to it. But once you do, you're hooked.

I'd like to see Dangun Feveron make the top 25 on the sole basis that it plays like a Tweakable version of Dodonpachi.

I'd laugh if Arrowflash made it to the top 50.

[BulletMagnet]

RS probably never makes it to the top because so few people have actually played it or have access to it. But once you do, you're hooked.

Quite a few around here would probably disagree with you on that, heh.

I'd like to see Dangun Feveron make the top 25 on the sole basis that it plays like a Tweakable version of Dodonpachi.

I would disagree with you on that.

[Shatterhand]

Yeah, I think Dodonpachi is three times in the 1st place for a reason, and I would never ask anyone to not vote for it

I'll wait more to put up my votes. But of course, my usual Apidya and Space Manbow votes will be there, in a very high spot

And I agree with Herr Schatten, I'd love to see Space Manbow, Apidya and Beamrider and Aleste 2 showing up in the list. I know I'll vote for the 4 games I highly doubt Aleste 2 or Beamrider will ever show up, but I still believe Space Manbow and Apidya would show up there if people had actually played those games.

[jp]

RS probably never makes it to the top because so few people have actually played it or have access to it. But once you do, you're hooked.

No, they just suck at it. Therefore it must be mediocre. Despite RS having like, a 20 hour learning curve.

[Rob]

No, they just suck at it. Therefore it must be mediocre.

I suck at Gunbird 2 and it got my #2 spot. There's just no place for RSG on my top 25. Maybe 50.

(thinly veiled trolling)

[it290]

And I agree with Herr Schatten, I'd love to see Space Manbow, Apidya and Beamrider and Aleste 2 showing up in the list. I know I'll vote for the 4 games I highly doubt Aleste 2 or Beamrider will ever show up, but I still believe Space Manbow and Apidya would show up there if people had actually played those games.

I might vote for Apidya, not sure yet. I love the game, and it's definitely the 2nd best Amiga shmup IMO (best being Deluxe Galaga), but I dunno. It looks better than Gradius, sounds better than Gradius, but somehow I just don't feel like it plays as well as Gradius.

[Alpolio]

Where can I find an updated list of valid shmups? I want to be able to have a reference so I don't miss one that really deserves attention.

[Ganelon]

The Xenocide Files, your shooter collection, and personal recollection. AFAIK, there is no gigantic list of shooters on the web...

Anyway, I hope to see Tecno Soft's games shine. It's all about personal experience rather than scoring for me.