shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:10 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 723 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 25  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:55 pm 


Remembered
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 1677
Location: Eastpointe, MI...WE KILL ALIENS.
bloodflowers wrote:
1) Not especially. Triangle Service appealed to the community, NG:DEV already had a community who were almost certain to buy anything they made. Both used the community as a milking ground for sales, just in different ways. Being part of that near-guaranteed sales demographic, I would have bought them both anyway.

2) Yes. I found Trizeal to be more playable despite the large number of flaws present. It was a definite improvement over XII-Stag. Again, I'd point out that he didn't register on the forum and tell people they were wrong. Maybe I'd change my mind if I saw an interview with the guy where he denies the flaws. If it had not been for this bullish attitude, I would have said I'd buy any future shooters NG:DEV make. Now I'll wait before I buy.


WOW. And I thought some of my early comments were harsh.

I don't think RHE was out of line...he's just passionate about his project. Nothing wrong with that, he certainly wasn't vulgar with his replies. I found Last Hope much more enjoyable than Trizeal. I also don't think Triangle Service should be commended for the equivalent of giving you oral pleasure and then asking you to buy their game/product. I found RHE's responses to criticism acceptable, and without insult.

I explained my issues with "Last Hope" early on...its not perfect nor is it my favorite shmup...but its a good effort and I look forward to the next project from NG:DEV Team.

I intend to support just about any shmup maker right now including TS...there are so few of em. 8)
_________________
Image
Fight Like A Robot!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:00 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 199
charlie chong wrote:
Tigershark wrote:
i personally never had any interest in this.. so many people will just buy ANY shooter released for the d.c ...sure i love d.c too but not enough too buy every game..chaos field,trizeal and last hope all look weak to me...
i bought under defeat and though that was pretty pish so god knows what these are like


You are missing out on Trizeal, its a great game, it may have a few minor faults but from a gameplay point of view its one of my favourite shooters of the last few years.

anyway, back on topic.

I have Last Hope, and have only played it for about 3hours at the moment and can also agree on the fact that there are a few times when the backgrounds are overcomplicated. Also the shrapnel being orange hot when its initially drawn isnt great as you initally think the ships are shooting lots of bullets at you (although RHE is correct the ships shooting patterns are quite strightforward).

It would also have been good to have made the 1st level more easy though, as most games like to hold you hand at the start :)

The game does suffer from lack of external playtesting, however there are many issues that the guys could have had regarding this. You cant just send out builds of your game to anyone, as you dont want the game you have spent all of your hard effort on being spread all over the internet.

Other than those issues which are quite significant in some areas, Im finding the game to be challenging and quite addictive. I definately dont regret the £20 I paid for it (inc postage from playasia).

I also dont think that RHE is out of line with his comments, he was not rude. He is going to be passionate about a game which he has spent six years on :)

I think its an admiral effort for the first game. I look forward to seeing the next shooter from these guys and hope its not going to take another six years.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:25 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 2166
Location: Kansas City Kansas
I've attached a note to my review.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:42 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3290
Just out of interest, have any Japanese reviews of the game surfaced yet?
_________________
"Amidst utter chaos lies strict order."
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3894
Location: Europe
Kiken wrote:
Just out of interest, have any Japanese reviews of the game surfaced yet?


Here's one: http://outrun1975.cocolog-nifty.com/blo ... _19e0.html

Pretty scathing, by the way:

It says that the enemy explosions are "too strong", which makes them hard to distinguish, that the pod is too sensitive to control, that you often die of hard to see enemies and their debris as well as hard to make out backgound features. He thinks that the boss BGM is not motivating. He says that the appearance is nice, but that it's not enough to motivate the player due to the aforementioned flaws.


Last edited by Ceph on Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:17 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 2166
Location: Kansas City Kansas
To save you the babelfishing

http://outrun1975.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2007/02/post_19e0.html wrote:
Until 1 aspect it clears, because you did, temporarily the review.

Effect of explosion of the enemy being too lively, it is vague.

Per decision of fourth (we liking to see, being) being delicate, it applies to the enemy, the づ leprosy.

There are times when explosive sound of the enemy does not become in large quantity, there is no force.

There is no motivation of boss BGM.

There are many times when it dies being the vague enemy and topography, unreasonable remains.

1 degree of hardness is high strangely from the surface.

You saw the eye which is groovy it is, but from the point above motivation the plug. . .

From the feature of BGM and the like which the eye which you saw comes out the calling & unreasonable & the air,

How doing クソゲー of the PC engine without, it became る feeling.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:29 pm 



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Monterey Peninsula, CA
szycag wrote:
To save you the babelfishing

http://outrun1975.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2007/02/post_19e0.html wrote:
Until 1 aspect it clears, because you did, temporarily the review.

Effect of explosion of the enemy being too lively, it is vague.

Per decision of fourth (we liking to see, being) being delicate, it applies to the enemy, the づ leprosy.

There are times when explosive sound of the enemy does not become in large quantity, there is no force.

There is no motivation of boss BGM.

There are many times when it dies being the vague enemy and topography, unreasonable remains.

1 degree of hardness is high strangely from the surface.

You saw the eye which is groovy it is, but from the point above motivation the plug. . .

From the feature of BGM and the like which the eye which you saw comes out the calling & unreasonable & the air,

How doing クソゲー of the PC engine without, it became る feeling.


We're going to need more than Babelfish for this one. The item I understood the most is when the writer says

Quote:
There are many times when it dies being the vague enemy and topography, unreasonable remains.


From the other review I've read, and comments on this forum, I assume the writer is saying that there were many times when he died and did not understand what caused his death.

This makes me wonder how large the hit box for your ship is. From everything I've read, it sounds like the hitbox is very large. Perhaps the game could be better recieved if the ship had a hit similair to size of the Vic Viper's hit box is Gradius V. That is, extremely small at the center of the ship.

*Sigh* I'm still waiting on my LE copy. I was playing the PC Engine R-Type last night on my Wii to get mysekf back into the mold of Horis with memorization.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:29 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3894
Location: Europe
I just translated the main points for my post above (I started translating before the babelfish translation was posted; babelfish is a bit quicker than I am).

Ceph wrote:
It says that the enemy explosions are "too strong", which makes them hard to distinguish, that the pod is too sensitive to control, that you often die of hard to see enemies and their debris as well as hard to make out backgound features. He thinks that the boss BGM is not motivating. He says that the appearance is nice, but that it's not enough to motivate the player due to the aforementioned flaws.


Sorry for quoting myself.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:57 pm 



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 788
szycag wrote:
I've attached a note to my review.


Okay, I can buy into that note. I'm still a bit leery about any one of us on this forum "reviewing" something that, by definition, we aren't actually "reviewing," but your caveat (and specifically that it was posted up top as the first thing a reader sees) seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

Well done.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:12 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 275
Location: downriver, MI
Generally speaking, developers are close to their products and aren't able to really see criticisms until down the line. Or so Bungie said a few weeks back in an interview about Halo :P But some of the criticisms I've been reading here are just attacks on the game, rather than anything genuinely helpful.

Also, I liked Trizeal! :shock:

Finally, anytime play-asia wants to send out that LE I'll be happy.
_________________
A hero is just a man who knows he's free


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:59 pm 


Remembered
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 1677
Location: Eastpointe, MI...WE KILL ALIENS.
Quote:
You saw the eye which is groovy it is,


I agree with this part of the japanese review 100%.

I saw the eye, and it was indeed groovy.:D
_________________
Image
Fight Like A Robot!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:26 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 513
Location: Corpus Christi, Tejas
I ordered mine by phone from National Console Support yesterday.
I know there's invisible shrapnel in some places because I've seen the vid. But learning certain manuvers and patterns to avoid death is pretty much what I look for in a horizontal shooter. I could be wrong, but (by the looks of the game) it seems to portray a certain "grow-on-you" quality.

We'll certainly see.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:43 pm 


Banned User
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 2724
Location: gobble gobble
Well, as far as I've seen, there's only been denial regarding the valid concern of hard to see bullets by the developers. I don't know whether it's been fixed in newer versions or anything, but overdefensiveness doesn't get anybody anywhere.
_________________
<Sidwell> TSS is manlier than a jet figher made of biceps.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:27 am 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1160
Location: Ecuador
RHE needs to learn how to take valuable constructive criticism to further improve their game.
I guess having worked on this game for 7 years made him think it would be perfect.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:27 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2711
Location: Outskirts of B.F.E.
I came so close to 1CCing this game on "Easy". I made it all the way to the sixth stage, but got plastered by the slow moving spore shots about mid-way through.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3394
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I couldn't wait any longer, so I downloaded it last night (I really did order a copy though, it's probably been delivered to my house already so I might have it tomorrow).

Gave it my very first shot just now (arcade mode), and here are the stats!

You killed 27 enemies
Kll ratio 52%

You shot 105 bullets
hit ratio 26%

They shot 55 bullets
You dodged 0 bullets
dodge ratio 0%

best surviving time 00:00:12
play time 00:00:31

Yeah. Every death (about 10 seconds) was a WTF just hit me death.

edit: Big improvement!! After about 20 minutes of play, I have managed to increase my best surviving time to 00:01:10!!!
I probably won't open my game when I receive it... Just keep playing this one from time to time for shits and giggles.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:18 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 2551
shinsage wrote:
RHE needs to learn how to take valuable constructive criticism to further improve their game.
I guess having worked on this game for 7 years made him think it would be perfect.


If you keep working so closely on a project for such a long time, you badly need someone from "outside" to comment on it. I mean, they could have just given out beta test version via download for our community to test it. Now all they can do is to keep the critique in mind for the next game, released in 2014.
_________________
THE BULLETS ARE NOW DIAMONDS!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:26 pm 


Remembered
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 1677
Location: Eastpointe, MI...WE KILL ALIENS.
FrederikJurk wrote:
shinsage wrote:
RHE needs to learn how to take valuable constructive criticism to further improve their game.
I guess having worked on this game for 7 years made him think it would be perfect.


If you keep working so closely on a project for such a long time, you badly need someone from "outside" to comment on it. I mean, they could have just given out beta test version via download for our community to test it. Now all they can do is to keep the critique in mind for the next game, released in 2014.


I asked him the same thing about beta testing it...in his defense, his answer made sense.

It wasn't logistically possible.

For example, for me to test it I would have to have flown to Germany, or he to Detroit, Mi..for it to be tested. No way he/they were gonna send builds of it (the game) out to strangers by internet or otherwise...or it would've been circulated all over the place...like has apparently happened already.

I know very little about how games are programmed and tested without giving away secrets...so I accept his (RHE's) explanation.
_________________
Image
Fight Like A Robot!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:35 pm 



Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Bonny Scotland
I've preordered the limited edition and checked out play asia- does anyone know when the limited edition is gonna ship?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:38 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2711
Location: Outskirts of B.F.E.
NAVVARR wrote:
I've preordered the limited edition and checked out play asia- does anyone know when the limited edition is gonna ship?


To put it succinctly, no.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:42 pm 



Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Bonny Scotland
The Coop wrote:
NAVVARR wrote:
I've preordered the limited edition and checked out play asia- does anyone know when the limited edition is gonna ship?


To put it succinctly, no.


Ok- cheers- that sucks- really looking forward to playing it despite the negative comments and reviews


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:59 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2711
Location: Outskirts of B.F.E.
NAVVARR wrote:
The Coop wrote:
NAVVARR wrote:
I've preordered the limited edition and checked out play asia- does anyone know when the limited edition is gonna ship?


To put it succinctly, no.


Ok- cheers- that sucks- really looking forward to playing it despite the negative comments and reviews


From what I remember, they're having a production problem, so the release got pushed to an unknown date.

Just keep in mind that not everyone shares the same sense of what's fun and what isn't (read through the 2006 shmup tournament threads for proof of that... oh the bickering :lol:). It's true that there are more voices of disappointment here with Last Hope in terms of a ratio, but some of us are enjoying the game just fine. So try not to let what's been said here (pro and con) taint your view of the game before you get to play it. Let personal experience decide where your opinion will fall, not this thread :)
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:37 am 


User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Woodridge, IL
Quote:

The game does suffer from lack of external playtesting, however there are many issues that the guys could have had regarding this. You cant just send out builds of your game to anyone, as you dont want the game you have spent all of your hard effort on being spread all over the internet.


Sure you can, just replace the graphics with ascii or something placeholderish and let the players concentrate on the gameplay.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:31 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 2166
Location: Kansas City Kansas
I should have added to my review, I'm not a big fan of "slow" shooters... where the playfield scrolls rather slowly and your ship seems sometimes outpaced to enemy fire even if that isn't always the case. This is one of the slowest shooters I've played in a while and surely affected the amount of fun I had with it personally. I did mention the soundtrack being rather slow. Even the boss stage themes sound like the music that would play when the score is counting up (stage clear) or something like that, like the Osaka guy's blog said, is it that motivating of a theme for boss play? The main themes are pretty low tempo and for those boss themes it only jumps up to mid-tempo. This messed with my head but your reaction could be totally different.

Tactical shooting game is the term they chose to apply to this game which I find funny. I'd almost call this a Survival shooting game, although that would confuse people with Resident Evil or something. Tactics makes me think of something like Radiant Silvergun. Tactical in this case however seems to be, no twitch action, your ship is pretty slow so you better memorize your surroundings 100%. To me this is less tactical and more just trial and error. If that's the kind of shooter you want to play that's what you'll get, but it's very very different from any other shooter coming out on Dreamcast at the moment. Neo Geo and Dreamcast really are two totally different followings and "markets". But maybe this is what (some) Dreamcast owners have been waiting for... there's no shooter really like it on the system.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:10 am 


User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 4108
Location: Hawaii
RHE wrote:
Quote:
Controls should be reconfigurable.


This is a undying wish by most players but developers know why they don't give them that freedom.


That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.

RHE wrote:
Quote:
Not enough contrast between background and foreground - made worse by some non-sprite foreground elements.


Japanese developers tend to do that but this is actually a matter of taste and only slightly gameplay relevant. People who can't distinguish beetwen backgrounds and enemies should get rid off their set up.


:shock: Wait, I take back my previous comment...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:54 am 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 4208
I cancelled my preorder for the LE..... I'd rather spend 60.00 on something else. I bought the reg version used for around 30.00 shipped.
_________________
Quote:
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:56 am 


User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 4108
Location: Hawaii
Strider77 wrote:
I cancelled my preorder for the LE..... I'd rather spend 60.00 on something else.


Smart man.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:32 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 199
Varuga wrote:
Quote:

The game does suffer from lack of external playtesting, however there are many issues that the guys could have had regarding this. You cant just send out builds of your game to anyone, as you dont want the game you have spent all of your hard effort on being spread all over the internet.


Sure you can, just replace the graphics with ascii or something placeholderish and let the players concentrate on the gameplay.


I understand where you are coming from but changing the gfx isnt relly going to give you a good impression of the game.

Im in a similar situation. I have a game which is progressign well, (its nearly finished).

However Even though I've been a shump player since most of you guys were in nappies Im not in anyway awesome at them (although I was at terra cresta in the arcade). I have friends who are testing the game and one is a hardcore shump fan (and very good at shumps) however as we all know its good to have more opinions. I am keen to let one or two guys on here playtest it. However The fact is how can they vouch that they are not goign to spread the hardwork?

The code is watermarked so it easily traceable, but thats no good if its leaked. Also posts like those in the trigger heart thread with download links make me a bit cautious

Let me just state I am a very trusting bloke, However I have been stung on internet forums by beign trusting before.

hmmmm


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:21 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Woodridge, IL
Do you want to give a good impression or beta test issues? Personally, I would rather have a game that is perfect before it looks pretty.
At any rate, I understand your point, I just wanted to clarify my point a bit more, but realize this is the wrong thread/board to do it..so I guess I will move this discussion over to the Development board later today. :D


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:33 pm 


Remembered
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 1677
Location: Eastpointe, MI...WE KILL ALIENS.
TWE wrote:
Strider77 wrote:
I cancelled my preorder for the LE..... I'd rather spend 60.00 on something else.


Smart man.


be praying...
be praying...
be praying...
_________________
Image
Fight Like A Robot!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 723 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 25  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gunbird18, Jenseits, Yahoo [Bot], Zaarock and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group