Tryin' to get into Shmups.

Indead · Post by **Indead** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:55 pm

I've been playing more shmups in the past few months than I have in my entire life. I want to know some good introduction places into the shmup genre.
I've "acquired" several shooters that I thoroughly enjoy, Darius Gaiden, Galactic Attack, Mars Matrix, ThunderForce V, but I'm only able to progress a few levels before getting slaughtered.

I do know that the majority of a shooter is spent learning the levels and bullet patterns in order to progress. Although, are there any "introduction/beginner" shooters y'all would recommend?
Something preferably challenging, but not bullet-hell, but most importantly, not boring.

Square King · Post by **Square King** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:05 pm

Most of the well-known shmups are going to start out easy and kick your ass later on. It's the nature of the beast.

If you have MAME, give DonPachi (and later on, DoDonPachi) a try. Or look around for Demolition Gunner for PC. It's bullet hell-ish, but a bit easier than most out there.

Indead · Post by **Indead** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:32 pm

Thanks for the reply back.
Yeah, yesterday I downloading both of those titles, I haven't played them yet though. My girlfriend called me =P

Maybe I need to just bulk up and take on some of the above lol, although, I'm not sure if I feel like tryin' to take down Ikaruga, at my level just yet...

Man, I am so glad I got a Dreamcast and a Saturn this year.... Man.

Today I'm actually going to run to the local pawn shop, in...about an hour or so, maybe two, and try and pick up Taito Legends for PS2. I've seen it there for about 8 bucks, and eh..even if for some reason it sucks, highly doubt it, 39 games in it I think. Nifty box art.

Square King · Post by **Square King** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:53 pm

Indead wrote:Thanks for the reply back.
Yeah, yesterday I downloading both of those titles, I haven't played them yet though. My girlfriend called me =P

Maybe I need to just bulk up and take on some of the above lol, although, I'm not sure if I feel like tryin' to take down Ikaruga, at my level just yet...

Man, I am so glad I got a Dreamcast and a Saturn this year.... Man.

Today I'm actually going to run to the local pawn shop, in...about an hour or so, maybe two, and try and pick up Taito Legends for PS2. I've seen it there for about 8 bucks, and eh..even if for some reason it sucks, highly doubt it, 39 games in i I think. Nifty box art.

You have a good set of games to get crackin' on. Mars Matrix will make you a better player for sure. And Ikaruga isn't bad if you just play to survive. Worry about scoring/chaining on your next runthrough and you'll be fine.

Definitely pick up Legends. And Gradius V if you see it.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:53 pm

This might be useful to you.

Indead · Post by **Indead** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:04 pm

Davey wrote:This might be useful to you.

Thanks for that link, a whole lot'ta posts right there

And I have visted Shoot the Core, was there yesterday, I got Warning Forever again.

Indead · Post by **Indead** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:02 pm

I just played Donpachi for the first time a few minutes ago, and wow, it's fun. The difficulty progresses slowly enough, that by the time the boss comes, you've learned a nice chunk of how that level works. I really like how the using the laser instead of the rapid fire slows down the ship. I normally welcome risk-free auto-fire

The main thing that I enjoyed about it though, was just how satisfying it was, it was satisfying to blow something up, to shoot, the music was just "heroic, victorious" enough, that you got an air about yourself.
I've got to play this later, I'm 'bout to go get Taito Legends now though.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:12 pm

Indead wrote:I just played Donpachi for the first time a few minutes ago, and wow, it's fun. I figured it'd be good, and it was. The difficulty progresses slowly enough, that by the time the boss comes, you've learned a nice chunk of how that level works. I really like how the using the laser instead of the rapid fire slows down the ship. I normally welcome risk-free auto-fire

I was about to recommend DDP too. It´s it one of the most perfect games in regards to the difficulty curve, it´s also a good introduction to Cave games in general.

Strikers 1945 II is also a good beginners game. Or at least for me it was.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:39 pm

Unless you really insist on not touching bullet hell games (though DDP arguably belongs to them), play rRootage. It is very simplistic, but it can, and likely will, teach you pretty much every concept and skill useful for playing shmups without having to memorize anything.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:44 pm

For Indead,

If you ever get a Supergun or a Japanese candy cabinet setup, picking up both of the classic Cave arcade PCBs of Donpachi and Dodonpachi are fine for starting off your shmup PCB collection. Granted that Altus USA only imported the first Donpachi PCB for the American arcade scene back in 1995...at least give Altus USA proper credit for introducing Cave and it's first arcade shmup PCB title to American arcade gamers back in the day. ^_~

The third PCB of Cave's "Dodopachi-Dai Ou Jou" (DDP-DOJ) will kick you in the nuts again and again...bullet hell is the overall theme presented in this particular DDP game.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

gennss · Post by **gennss** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:00 pm

my current faves are

dodonpachi
triggerheart excelica
psyvariar 2
shikigami no shiro ii
ikaruga
(and megaman 9 but thats whole other problem)

kennyrh · Post by **kennyrh** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:53 pm

I assume you're looking for games that will take you more gently through the levels/areas once you're adept.

I can recommend two such shmups in MAME - assuming you use it - whch don't hammer your ass too bad.

Varth - Operation Thunderstorm (Capcom)

Star Force (Tehkan)

Varth is 1992 vintage but Star Force is a lot older - but fairly challenging. Give 'em a bash and tell me what you think . . .

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:37 pm

Frederik wrote:Strikers 1945 II is also a good beginners game. Or at least for me it was.

This or Sengoku Ace. I think a good beginner game will not distract you with scoring elements. Leave that for later.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:12 pm

I'd recommend the The Gunbird games and the Battle Bakraid as a good place to start. Both are very fun to play IMO. You can't go wrong with DDP, though.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:41 pm

Rob wrote:
Frederik wrote:Strikers 1945 II is also a good beginners game. Or at least for me it was.
This or Sengoku Ace. I think a good beginner game will not distract you with scoring elements. Leave that for later.

Man, Turbo Force is the perfect beginner's shmup.

Also, I didn't work to get myself enjoying shooters - there was a time when I just didn't understand them or like them. Then that changed, seemingly overnight. Like magic.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:41 pm

Never_Scurred wrote:I'd recommend the The Gunbird games and the Battle Bakraid as a good place to start. Both are very fun to play IMO. You can't go wrong with DDP, though.

Battle Bakraid has also an auto-bomb Easy mode. It will teach you a lot about bullet hoarding.

Also, make sure to read the glossary:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=9665

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:43 pm

Twin Cobra? Twin Hawk? I would of course recommend Flying Shark, but it's kind of a hard for most people.

Emph

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:45 pm

Twin Hawk is hard as hell (need to fiddle with your autofire, or you bust your fingers). Twin Cobra is more like it.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:46 pm

^^ I totally agree with Battle Bakraid since it was my first Raizing 1CC...ehrm... only Raizing 1CC

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:51 pm

ZOM wrote:^^ I totally agree with Battle Bakraid since it was my first Raizing 1CC...ehrm... only Raizing 1CC

Battle Bakraid is like the midpoint in between Garegga's strictness and the loose feel of Batrider. Both are great games in their own right, but Bakraid is the perfect balance. Thanks Fred for mentioning the Easy mode autobomb. Plus, you'll have lots of fun figuring out all of Bakraid's little secrets. Its really an all around fun game.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:52 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:
Rob wrote:
Frederik wrote:Strikers 1945 II is also a good beginners game. Or at least for me it was.
This or Sengoku Ace. I think a good beginner game will not distract you with scoring elements. Leave that for later.
Man, Turbo Force is the perfect beginner's shmup.

Also, I didn't work to get myself enjoying shooters - there was a time when I just didn't understand them or like them. Then that changed, seemingly overnight. Like magic.

Considering that Turbo Force hails from the pre-Psikyo era, it does have a charm of it's own. What was unique about Turbo Force was it's usage of auto-fire given to the player from the get-go -- that was considered a new innovation for arcade shmup titles back in early 1990's. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:04 pm

Never_Scurred wrote:Plus, you'll have lots of fun figuring out all of Bakraid's little secrets.

I never get tired of swapping the bullet colors around

Really, every shmup should have a bullet color option!

Indead · Post by **Indead** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:03 am

Wow, thanks for all the posts, I can clearly tell, seeing as this is a shmup forum, that people are actually intelligent enough to play the game, and would care enough to post back.
Thank you for all the posts, looks like I have a lot of scrolling and MAME roms to find

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:11 am

pleasuredome.org.uk for all your legal emulation needs ;O

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:56 am

Ed Oscuro wrote:Man, Turbo Force is the perfect beginner's shmup.

Perfect for beginners and everyone else.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:08 am

Unless you're a godless Communist, that is - your skin might start to burn from the patriotic stuff

Truly spoken.

Post by **spadgy** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:48 am

I really do think Psyvariar and Psyvariar 2 are a good start.

Not too pricey, and in PAL land at least it's easy to pick up, and as a complete newbie you can cruise through fairly easily just shooting the shit out of everything. In essence - playing for survival is relatively easy.

Then, you can go back, learn to roll, flitter/butterfly, shield charge and buzz, and get to grips with scoring. It's a nice and satisfying way to discover how shooters have two sides, in terms of score and survival.

Psyvariar 2 is vastly superior and has far more depth and looks lovely. Psyvariar looks a little horrid, is more simple, and still a lot of fun. There are two versions of the first Pysvariar (Medium Unit and Revision). Generally they come bundled on one disc (Psyvariar Complete), but if you do find yourself choosing between the two separate versions, go with Revision.

Ixmucane · Post by **Ixmucane** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:48 pm

Genetos and Raiden III are two PC games with adjustable difficulty that aren't too extreme to begin with. Raiden II is a bit more hardcore.

Post by **spadgy** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:38 pm

Ixmucane wrote:Genetos and Raiden III are two PC games with adjustable difficulty that aren't too extreme to begin with. Raiden II is a bit more hardcore.

What's the PC Raiden like on defaults then? The PS2 Raiden is pretty tough on defaults. It's shits all over me anyway...

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:51 pm

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:If you ever get a Supergun or a Japanese candy cabinet setup, picking up both of the classic Cave arcade PCBs of Donpachi and Dodonpachi are fine for starting off your shmup PCB collection. Granted that Altus USA only imported the first Donpachi PCB for the American arcade scene back in 1995...at least give Altus USA proper credit for introducing Cave and it's first arcade shmup PCB title to American arcade gamers back in the day. ^_~

The third PCB of Cave's "Dodopachi-Dai Ou Jou" (DDP-DOJ) will kick you in the nuts again and again...bullet hell is the overall theme presented in this particular DDP game.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Why are you even bringing up DOJ in the face of a newbie? Better question should be.. why are you saying for them to get a Supergun or candy cab? That's stupid dood. He's new.

I would actually recommend NOT doing this because it might not really be your thing. Then you have all that money outlaid and you'll regret it..