Ketsui dump legality

[neorichieb1971]

If successful in dumping the ROMS to MAME and Cave source this forum as the initial place of its inception, what happens then?

What if the implications of this thread are that a trend starts where every PCB up to date from Cave is MAME'd in the next 12 months?

Has anyone stopped to think about the consequences?

Ketsui is the final frontier in a sense, i'm sure the later revisions of Cave boards will use the same techniques.

[P_HAT]

Only Ketsui/DoJ/ESP on PGM, all latter games on CAVE 3rd Generation

[KNTain]

What if the implications of this thread are that a trend starts where every PCB up to date from Cave is MAME'd in the next 12 months?

Has anyone stopped to think about the consequences?

What consequences? MAME has a rule against games that recent being included.

[eretsua]

If successful in dumping the ROMS to MAME and Cave source this forum as the initial place of its inception, what happens[-/qup then?

In some countries, it is legal for an individual to personally make backup copies of a game they own. Individuals may make backup copies for various reasons, perhaps as insurance against losing the game or as redundancy in the event that the original game's medium becomes unreadable.

source

i know my local law does allow this (for now still at least).

What if the implications of this thread are that a trend starts where every PCB up to date from Cave is MAME'd in the next 12 months?

besides the hardware differences it is not very likely any of the newer games are going to be supported by MAME in the decade to come. they themselves claim that they are not very interested in bringing games to MAME that are still readily available in the arcades and still reap the arcade owners a profit.

Has anyone stopped to think about the consequences?

yes, well i have at least. at worst MAME may receive a request from Cave/AMI(?)('s legal department) they want them to remove the support for Ketsui. i severely doubt their would be any more fuzz from Cave/AMI(?).

i think it's even more unlikely they would attempt to prosecute any of the individual board members who have donated to this project. and if so i guess we could claim a shared ownership with a backup for personal use. don't know if that is a sufficient enough of a legal shield but...oh well.

if anyone is taking an actual (legal) risk in this endeavour i think it's Guru.
but i'm far from sure about that.

Ketsui is the final frontier in a sense, i'm sure the later revisions of Cave boards will use the same techniques.

what makes you think that? i'm not saying your wrong but it would surprise me if they didn't change vary their protection from time to time.

[sven666]

Ketsui is the final frontier in a sense, i'm sure the later revisions of Cave boards will use the same techniques.

what makes you think that? i'm not saying your wrong but it would surprise me if they didn't change vary their protection from time to time.

if by later you mean ESPGaluda, you'd be right. If you mean Mushihime-sama thru Muchi Pork, no. Apples & Oranges.

dunno why im posting in this thread to be honest but if dumping ketsui is successfull why wouldnt galuda 2, pink sweets and MMP be next on the list?, theres no reason why they too couldnt be cracked.

i like the idea of preservation and bugfixing with mamedev but i fucking hate the blatant piracy side of it.. its definetly a double edged sword.

[rtw]

dunno why im posting in this thread to be honest but if dumping ketsui is successfull why wouldnt galuda 2, pink sweets and MMP be next on the list?, theres no reason why they too couldnt be cracked.

i like the idea of preservation and bugfixing with mamedev but i fucking hate the blatant piracy side of it.. its definetly a double edged sword.

MAME already has a PGM driver so theoretically Ketsui can be used
with that. However MAME does not have an SH-3 core.

No SH-3 PCB's have been dumped and besides they are heavily
protected with a dedicated CPLD as well as a custom FPGA.

rtw

[Radiant]

i like the idea of preservation and bugfixing with mamedev but i fucking hate the blatant piracy side of it.. its definetly a double edged sword.

100% true
In the worst case u can turn a "cheap" Galuda PCB into a Ketsui PCB
IMO this topic supports piracy and bootlegs

[cody]

Yeah, I'm a little confused as to how this is different from rom begging or linking to warez, activities which usually lead to posts being deleted in short time.

[P_HAT]

calm down guys.
game out of print. game have no port ever (?).

this thread is OK.
Like CPS3 thread on SRK.

or, maybe we need cancel STGT, because mame = roms = warez?

[roker]

Yeah, I'm a little confused as to how this is different from rom begging or linking to warez, activities which usually lead to posts being deleted in short time.

this is an exception to the rule

nobody is begging for a rom or link to a rom

this is preservation

[cody]

this is an exception to the rule

from the forum rules at
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=779

Not for discussion:
...copyright infringement, or assistance with any of these . . .It doesn't matter what is legal in your country, there are no exceptions to this rule

How is "hey, guys, lets collect $$ so we can buy 1 board, dump the roms, and share it amongst ourselves so we can play it on mame" not assistance with copyright infringement?

[zakk]

How is "hey, guys, lets collect $$ so we can buy 1 board, dump the roms, and share it amongst ourselves so we can play it on mame" not assistance with copyright infringement?

Who said we're sharing it amongst ourselves? We'll get it just like we get any other MAME roms, i.e not on this forum.

Also if you have an issue with how this forum is moderated you should take it up in private with a moderator or the site admin. Armchair quarterbacking moderation in the middle of a thread which they have clearly let live is just being antagonistic for the sake of being That Guy.

[eretsua]

this is preservation

Again, as has been stated in this thread, Ketsui is not rare, so the whole "preservation" doesn't hold all that much merit either.

i have to disagree with you on this. like said before, no hardware lasts forever so whether you preserve a game when it's brand new and in print or you preserve it when you're down to the last working copy does not deter of the preservation aspect of it. though you can argue that the need of preserving ketsui is currently not as great as say an undumped game stored on an old suicidal capcom board, for example.

but indeed, the ultimate goal of this endeavour is to get ketsui running in mame. and yes, that does mean the game will be played by people who haven't paid any money for it (and i don't mean donated for it).

but quite frankly, who cares? there is no port and it's not likely there will ever be one. it's pretty much out of circulation in the arcades. so realistically speaking the only ones who might lose some money through this are ketsui board owners if the price of the board drops because of the drop in demand because "it's playable in mame".

How is "hey, guys, lets collect $$ so we can buy 1 board, dump the roms, and share it amongst ourselves so we can play it on mame" not assistance with copyright infringement?

this rom dumping may or may not be copyright infringement. i don't know, but i'd guess that depends on who owns the board when it happens and also very much on the local laws of the country where the dumping will happen. so it's my guess that we're currently not assisting in copyright infringement.

[cody]

I'd hate to see shmupsforum exposed to legal liability over this. Dunno where guru lives, but the forum rules specifically say it doesn't matter what's legal in your country. FWIW, if the board is protected at all (not just encrypted), it's pretty clearly illegal in the U.S. to defeat that protection.

As for armchair quarterbacking, others brought the issue up before I did. I think it's public enough that mod(s) ought to weigh in on whether they support this.

I'd have a lot more respect for this endeavor if pixelcorps told cave and arika up front.

[zakk]

I'd hate to see shmupsforum exposed to legal liability over this. Dunno where guru lives, but the forum rules specifically say it doesn't matter what's legal in your country. FWIW, if the board is protected at all (not just encrypted), it's pretty clearly illegal in the U.S. to defeat that protection.

As for armchair quarterbacking, others brought the issue up before I did. I think it's public enough that mod(s) ought to weigh in on whether they support this.

I'd have a lot more respect for this endeavor if pixelcorps told cave and arika up front.

lol

[djvinc]

Yeah, I'm a little confused as to how this is different from rom begging or linking to warez, activities which usually lead to posts being deleted in short time.

This is totally different. Warez are free, and this rom dump costs a lot of money
And also there are no sex ads involved in the process.

[P_HAT]

damn, you really from Texas...

[neorichieb1971]

I'd hate to see shmupsforum exposed to legal liability over this. Dunno where guru lives, but the forum rules specifically say it doesn't matter what's legal in your country. FWIW, if the board is protected at all (not just encrypted), it's pretty clearly illegal in the U.S. to defeat that protection.

As for armchair quarterbacking, others brought the issue up before I did. I think it's public enough that mod(s) ought to weigh in on whether they support this.

I'd have a lot more respect for this endeavor if pixelcorps told cave and arika up front.

Remember Cave don't care about the West, well maybe they will now .

On a side note, when the last MVS game was made, it was MAME'd before arcade operators installed it. If Cave were to give permission, they would probably release the source code themselves and this mission would become obsolete.

[KNTain]

On a side note, when the last MVS game was made, it was MAME'd before arcade operators installed it.

Dumped. Emulated, possibly. But sure as hell not in MAME.

[zro]

I'd hate to see shmupsforum exposed to legal liability over this. Dunno where guru lives, but the forum rules specifically say it doesn't matter what's legal in your country. FWIW, if the board is protected at all (not just encrypted), it's pretty clearly illegal in the U.S. to defeat that protection.

As for armchair quarterbacking, others brought the issue up before I did. I think it's public enough that mod(s) ought to weigh in on whether they support this.

I'd have a lot more respect for this endeavor if pixelcorps told cave and arika up front.

Hahaha dude I laughed at everything in this post

[Twiddle]

I'd hate to see shmupsforum exposed to legal liability over this. Dunno where guru lives, but the forum rules specifically say it doesn't matter what's legal in your country. FWIW, if the board is protected at all (not just encrypted), it's pretty clearly illegal in the U.S. to defeat that protection.

As for armchair quarterbacking, others brought the issue up before I did. I think it's public enough that mod(s) ought to weigh in on whether they support this.

I'd have a lot more respect for this endeavor if pixelcorps told cave and arika up front.

laughing on line

[Never_Scurred]

I didn't support this project so I could p1ayZ t3h r()mz0rz. If anything, I want to send a message to Arika to get their asses in gear and get that port happening. I mean, its not like they can use the excuse that there isn't a market for it since they were the ones who initiated the port anyways. On the other hand, I do worry that we may be doing more harm than good.

[zro]

armchair quarterbacking

[roker]

sometimes people need to let things play out

rules are made to be broken

what the fuck makes you guys so fucking righteous?

[jpolz]

sometimes people need to let things play out

rules are made to be broken

what the fuck makes you guys so fucking righteous?

How come nobody gets this bent out of shape every time someone orders up a batch of shirts with SHMUP art/logo/copyrighted material on them and actually sells them for a profit???

Hypocrites.

[zro]

sometimes people need to let things play out

rules are made to be broken

what the fuck makes you guys so fucking righteous?

hahahahahaha

[roker]

I'm going to personally dump this game on the next member to complain about this thread

[szycag]

This forum has a tournament every year based pretty much 100 percent around participants using MAME. This forum clearly thrives on emulation. But no site or forum can expect to stay around linking to rom sites. I think that's pretty much where the rule cody brought up begins and ends.

[pixelcorps]

sometimes people need to let things play out

How come nobody gets this bent out of shape every time someone orders up a batch of shirts with SHMUP art/logo/copyrighted material on them and actually sells them for a profit???

It's simple.

people are greedy myopic consumers. end of story

If someone produces a "fan made" product, that source is the only way of obtaining it, and if the consumers' lust for it is high enough, they'll rejig their morality for their own personal gain.

nobody cried "copyright infringement" when I produced the ikaruga tees - , in fact the only thing cried was "i want one" , "where's my tee?" and even "i'll take 10 shirts, do you do a bulk discount?"

- and interestingly there was more, WAY more than 12 or so people (the number of donators so far)

This project has no solid outcome, the "product" may be a long way off and there's no guarantee that it will happen - I can't see what the immediate threat is.

[jpolz]

sometimes people need to let things play out

How come nobody gets this bent out of shape every time someone orders up a batch of shirts with SHMUP art/logo/copyrighted material on them and actually sells them for a profit???

It's simple.

people are greedy myopic consumers. end of story

If someone produces a "fan made" product, that source is the only way of obtaining it, and if the consumers' lust for it is high enough, they'll rejig their morality for their own personal gain.

nobody cried "copyright infringement" when I produced the ikaruga tees - , in fact the only thing cried was "i want one" , "where's my tee?" and even "i'll take 10 shirts, do you do a bulk discount?"

- and interestingly there was more, WAY more than 12 or so people (the number of donators so far)

This project has no solid outcome, the "product" may be a long way off and there's no guarantee that it will happen - I can't see what the immediate threat is.

Well put.