Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu [Cave 2008]

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:14 am

When we are talking 360/PS3 there's no question of porting these games.

They will of course be emulated.

The developers may still call them "ports" of course, because of whatever additional modes or other options they include, but there is no doubt that the whole thing is running using a proprietary emulator. Anything else simply doesn't make sense.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:15 am

icycalm wrote: The developers may still call them "ports" of course, because of whatever additional modes or other options they include, but there is no doubt that the whole thing is running using a proprietary emulator. Anything else simply doesn't make sense.

Raiden Fighters Aces isn't emulated. Does that make sense?

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:20 am

How do you know?

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:22 am

Because that's what the developers said.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:31 am

Hopefully these are NOT emulated versions. According to this Success blog I was reading today, they originally tried to emulate the Raiden Fighters games for the new Raiden Fighters Aces compilation. They soon discovered that due to the X360 hardware and input system, there is an unavoidable lag between the time when you press a button and when it registers on the screen during emulation. With an LCD display, the delay becomes even more pronounced. They said the slowdown was also impossible to emulate properly. So, they had to use the original code and build the port from the ground up.

Yes, well. I would have lolled if it wasn't too late and if I wasn't so tired.

So the 360 is incapable of emulating other systems properly? This is what these clowns are saying? And so they sat down and ported THREE GAMES in less time than most other companies take to port one? And you are buying this shit?

Oh well.

And even if somehow they really are THAT DUMB, and couldn't figure out how to set up proper emulation of such crappy old hardware on such an obscenely powerful system as the 360 -- something which I highly doubt! -- that doesn't mean that the guys handling the Cave ports are equally dumb.

Anyway, the truth will come out eventually. Give it a few years. I'll be sure to bump this thread once I have the relevant facts at hand.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:36 am

icycalm wrote: So the 360 is incapable of emulating other systems properly?

Yes, the key word is "properly". They apparently have higher standards than you do.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:43 am

If you knew the first thing about emulation, you'd know that, as long as the hardware you are using is sufficiently more powerful than the emulated hardware, "perfect" emulation is always possible if you are willing to tinker with the code long enough.

Raiden Fighters Aces runs on a proprietary emulator which has then been tinkered with to get as close to the real thing as possible given whatever time constraints the developers were working under. Nothing else makes sense.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:57 am

I can't believe you're actually claiming Success/Gulti is lying about using the original code for the port rather than emulation, just so you don't have to admit you were wrong in your prior post in this thread. That's pretty pathetic, even for you.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:54 am

How was I wrong? I said that the only approach that makes sense with these games is emulation. Success and Gulti validated that view by saying that the first approach they thought of was emulation. How hard can this be to grasp? I would expect even someone as dense as you would have no problems there.

Anyway. After that there are two options:

a. Gulti were too dumb to make emulation work, so instead they sat down and ported three games, and then went ahead and published them for the price of one. If you are buying this, fine, but it doesn't mean that the Cave port developers will be equally dumb.

b. They are lying because they know that dimwits like you consider "ports" a "better deal" than "emulation".

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:40 am

icy: You can do anything on a computer if you're willing to tinker w/ the code long enough. The fact is, not everybody (and most of all, most companies...small ones at that) don't have an eternity to perfect things. This is where substandard ports come in, as time is money.

If you knew the first thing about emulation, you'd know that it isn't always hams and plaque. Look at how many shitty and half-assed emulators are out there for amazingly low-powered machines. Even if you have the system spec, some things don't work right. Sound emulation for SFC and Mega Drive are still not perfected, and likely won't be.

I also must point out the irony in your example of using the Raiden Fighters series since they are far from perfect in MAME, and the driver has been there for well over a year now (maybe two). RF Jet, anyway, which is the one I've played the most. Playable? Yes. Choppy when compared to the PCB? Yes.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:09 am

GaijinPunch wrote:icy: You can do anything on a computer if you're willing to tinker w/ the code long enough.

Don't tell that to me, tell that to EOJ and Gulti who are saying it's not possible for the 360 to properly emulate these games.

As for the rest of your post, sure, and the sky is blue. That's not exactly relevant to the disagreement I was having with EOJ.

edit: Anyway, this place drains me as usual so I am off. No serious discussion ever seems to get anywhere and nothing ever seems to end, because most people here are functionally illiterate.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:11 am

icycalm wrote:How was I wrong?

Here's a clue:

I said that the only approach that makes sense with these games is emulation.

And this part is worth noting:

Success and Gulti validated that view by saying that the first approach they thought of was emulation.

Yeah, until they invalidated that view when they didn't use emulation for the actual product. Thus other approaches not only make sense, they can make even MORE sense!

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:19 am

icycalm wrote:edit: Anyway, this place drains me as usual so I am off. No serious discussion ever seems to get anywhere and nothing ever seems to end, because most people here are functionally illiterate.

Like your forum.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:54 am

Don't tell that to me, tell that to EOJ and Gulti who are saying it's not possible for the 360 to properly emulate these games.

"Not possible with in their means" is "impossible" in this world. As such, porting is better solution. Why would they take the harder route?

Post by **undamned** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:34 am

Icycalm and Recap must be drinking pals.
-ud

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:33 pm

Quoting icy in the other thread (refering to people here):

icycalm wrote:(...)to people who have no manners, nor any desire to acquire some.

And now icy on this thread:

even someone as dense as you

dimwits like you

most people here are functionally illiterate.

Yes, manners. You could use some.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:31 am

Man, that chick in the French maid outfit at the Cave show is hot. She looks kinda like Ran Asakawa's younger, and not as nasty sister.

s/m

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:09 am

Lethal Weapon is an awesome series of films.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:10 pm

Macaw wrote:Lethal Weapon is an awesome series of films.

I prefer the Die Hards (excluding 4 of course)

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:48 pm

Never_Scurred wrote: I prefer the Die Hards (excluding 4 of course)

That really wasn't a Die Hard though, now was it? One could argue the same thing about Daifukkatsu not being a Dodonpachi... other than the chaining.

Caveman · Post by **Caveman** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:15 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Never_Scurred wrote: I prefer the Die Hards (excluding 4 of course)
That really wasn't a Die Hard though, no was it? One could argue the same thing about Daifukkatsu not being a Dodonpachi... other than the chaining.

There's nothing like a good mix of slow pink bullets & butch men in dirty vests

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:50 am

sooo.. no DDP5 news then?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:29 am

Only that it's been pushed back until May.

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:03 pm

loketest is on 4.4.08

drboom · Post by **drboom** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:38 pm

Only a few days away - I take it there will be a few members of this board there? Take some pics this time, signs or not.

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:54 pm

lol..for really real, or for April 1st real?

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:58 pm

the real

kotaro · Post by **kotaro** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:05 am

I'll go to the lock test...

then I post the photos...

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:16 pm

Don't mean to be asking any questions that may have been answered already, but...

Anyone know if this will be getting a console port ?

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:32 pm

J-Manic wrote:Don't mean to be asking any questions that may have been answered already, but...

Anyone know if this will be getting a console port ?

yeah its coming out for the 3DO in august...