Shooting Game Tournament 2008 Theme Weeks and possible Rules

[mikwuyma]

We need to get this stuff sorted out, so better now than later.

Coop, can you save us from this banner (please don't, I am paralyzed by its awesome)



Theme Weeks

Doujin Week

Here is the current shortlist (these are all free):

- Uwabami Breakers (scoring is somewhat strict, but it's a short game)
- Xed (Normal mode, unless if there is somehow a way to unlock hard mode from the start)
- nomltest (Gets intense quickly, I don't think it will be too long)

Caravan Week

For a tournament that only has people playing for a week per game, a game that is five minutes or less would be perfect. The only problem is that there aren't many caravan games that can be run under mame.

Sikraiken proposed that we play two caravan games at once because caravan modes are short. But I should let people vote.

Caravan shortlist:

-Dangun Feveron Time attack (hold A+B then push start)
-The Game Paradise (Game Tengoku) time attack
-Super Space Fortress Macross 2 - Medium Course (expert is unplayable due to a graphics bug)

Capcom Week

-1943 Kai (apparently the shortest out of the old 194x games)
-19xx (not too tough, and scoring system is pretty forgiving)
-Varth (some fighting over this, but it seems to be the best choice outside of Mars Matrix, despite its length)


Not Taito Week (has a sweet banner courtesy of Zebra Airforce and szycag)

-Rayforce - Taito (has fairly even score progression throughout, gets hard towards the end)
-Strikers 1999 - Psikyo (Rob is right, the spinning medals make it easier to catch them at max point values)
-Thunder Dragon II - NMK (lots of scoring secrets, even scoring progression, challenging)

Famous Manic Week

-Progear
-Battle Garegga
-Raiden Fighters Jet

Mars Matrix is a possible choice instead of Raiden Fighters Jet.

One week that will not happen at all, but I like because it was my idea

Dragon Week - Dragon Spirit (scoring might be too reliant on checkpoint suiciding), Dust Dragon (never even heard of this game until today), Cyvern: The Dragon weapons (need to ask Javel about this game), Mahou Daisakusen, Dragon Breed, Trigon, and Saint Dragon.

Doujins that could be considered next year.

- PatriotDark (Hard mode, extra requires beating the game which doesn't take long, but would be a hassle, the game is also 3 or 4 scoring systems mashed up into one)
- Psyche Metal the Bleeding (I know Fu has played this one a bunch, so he could judge whether this is a good game for a scoring competition)
- Yalkina (This could work, it's really hard. If this game was picked plasmo would destroy us all )
-Blue Wish Resurrection? (don't know anything about this game, but some people proposed it)

Potential Rule Changes

Points System

The current point system creates too much spread and is too confusing to calculate. I'd rather use a linear scoring system.

At this point, I'd rather just use DMC's suggestion, because it's the easiest way to calculate score. It means that lower scorers on a team still have a purpose, and I don't think the scoring gaps will be too big, or at least they can't be bigger than last year.

Voting privately

This is an obvious yes. Voting through email where people put the game they want in the subject line would work. Apparently the PM box only holds 100 PMs, and we're past 100 participants.

Reducing games per voting week

I'm going with three.

I'm interested in what people think about the weeks and potential rule changes. And don't worry, I expect some bitching, or else it wouldn't be STGT

[Enhasa]

I didn't read all that yet but these should obviously be the playing weeks:

Week 1: Cameltry
Week 2: Blue's Journey
Week 3: Armed Police BatRider
Week 4: Uo Poko
Week 5: Battle Circuit

[Enhasa]

We "need" a 2nd place week, but hopefully it can be the same as "famous manic" anyway, i.e. RFJ. I like the other week choices, especially Taito since Twiddle will explode and then shortlist Master of Weapon since all Taito shmups suck anyway.

Many of Kennyman's picks are commercial too though like Hitogata Happa and Samidare. I'd have to figure out which of the doujins I have are free, but Kenta Cho's are (I'd suggest parsec47 roll and Titanion), I think Lunaria is a demo right now still (and caravan), Every Extend is free and caravan but maybe too luck-based, and yeah I stopped bothering to think of anything else.

Nomltest is a good pick.

[mikwuyma]

I don't really see the need for second place week. Yeah, it would have some great choices, like RFJ and Strikers I guess, but we can just take the good choices and put them in different weeks

I didn't bother weeding out kennyman's picks, except for Bike Banditz, because I know that game is commercial. We actually discussed Kenta Cho games earlier, and it's agreed that they're a bad idea since they're all endless, except for rrootage. I'll check out nomltest later if someone gives me a link.

Oh yeah, I forgot my favorite week. Excuse to fit in nmk week - Two choices: Thunder Dragon II and P-47 Aces

[spongdangly]

Here you go mikwuyma

nomltest direct download link

I don't think that whether or not the game is free should be too much of an issue considering that most people using MAME don't own the pcb's for the games they play. I'm not judging anyone either. I'd just like to see one Touhou game (come on Imperishable Night, it has pretty straight foward scoring system) during doujin week.

[Enhasa]

That's good, I thought 2nd place week was required for some reason, but it's only a 1-year tradition anyway.

And yeah, you don't play Kenta Cho games literally forever since you do die eventually, but they do take a very long time, forgot about that.

[P_HAT]

well, we can't play -The Game Paradise (Game Tengoku) time attack in mame.

+ LUNARIA to caravan games.
+ how about 3 games in caravan week?

Also, wut wrong with CRS68k?

[sikraiken]

Game Tengoku is more than playable, there are just some graphics problems.

ChoRenSha 68k would take too long to play; it's not a very good one-week-tournament game.

[Ghegs]

Mameable caravan games:

-Dangun Feveron Time attack (hold A+B then push start)
-The Game Paradise (Game Tengoku) time attack

There's also that one Macross game which is sorta Caravan-ish.

[sikraiken]

Varth is probably too long of a game, don't know exactly how long it takes though (there are 30 levels). 1942's scoring is annoying because it involves suiciding all your lives at one of the bosses for maximum points. 1943/1943kai take about 40-45min to complete, not sure if that's too long. 1943kai is easier to complete (due to the gunshot weapon being really strong) but either are decent choices. You would see a lot more 1ccs on 1943kai than you would on 1943 in a week.

[mikwuyma]

Spongdangly: I have no problem with touhou, but according to this thread, the penalty for mentioning Touhou for stgt is death by debate.

I played some nomltest. It's fun, but is there a certain point where it ends/becomes impossible? If not, the game might last too long.

P-Hat: Lunaria isn't freeware.

Ghegs: I'll try that game out later

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that odd graphics glitch in Game Tengoku, but it's still very playable. The glitch doesn't actually do anything detrimental, just double some sprites (no bullets to my knowledge)

[sikraiken]

P-Hat: Lunaria isn't freeware.

The one that has the 2min/5min mode is.

[Kaiser]

Week 1: BWR+
Week 2: 19xx
Week 3: Armed Police BatRider
Week 4: Progear
Week 5: Gekirindan

[P_HAT]

P-Hat: Lunaria isn't freeware.

The one that has the 2min/5min mode is.

Also, there is no "full" ver of lunaria.

[P_HAT]

Week 5: Gekirindan

lol no

[ED-057]

Doujin week: Twin Seeds runs fine on my system, meanwhile Uwabami Breakers didn't. Also, Ultimate Stage was mentioned in the other thread and that looks like a good option. It's a small download with relatively low system requirements and it has a scoring system.

Famous Manic Week: Mahou Daisakusen is manic?

[Rob]

Please put Turbo Force in there.

[KennyMan666]

Of the doujins listed, Psyche Metal, Galshell, Twin Seeds and nomltest are the only freeware ones. If we're not going to be piracy hypocrites, I can provide clean CD rips of Hisyouayu, Bike Banditz and Hitogatahappa, since I own those. The rest of the non-freeware games I can also provide, but cannot promise they're actually completely clean versions.

[The Coop]

Spongdangly: I have no problem with touhou, but according to this thread, the penalty for mentioning Touhou for stgt is death by debate.

Touhou was just the game series that was mentioned. That debate would have happened with any game that's still actively sold by its creator(s)


Edit: 1776 posts? How... American spirited.

[P_HAT]

btw, how about to play 3 games in caravan week?

[DMC]

regarding Points System (for teams)

i would like if not just the top-3 in a team influences the calcultion. the idea is that a player outside top 3 can put down the opponents one place each (he will not give any points directly to his team, but he will reduce one point for everyone else below him).

example (the parenthesis means the points is not given to the team as the player is not top3)

with this system
1. team A - 50pts
2. team B - 49pts
3. team A - 48pts
4. team A - 47pts
5. team C - 46pts
6. team A - (45pts)
7. team B - 44pts
8. team A - (43pts)
9. team B - 42pts
10. Team C - 41pts

without it (as before, only top3 included)
1. team A - 50pts
2. team B - 49pts
3. team A - 48pts
4. team A - 47pts
5. team C - 46pts
6. team B - 45pts
7. team B - 44pts
8. Team C - 43pts
9. Team D - 42pts
8. Team D - 41pts


so if there are 10 teams (33 "top-3 players"), a fourth player that place in the overall top ten can reduce like 20-30pts from the other teams (but not more than 3 points for each team).
there a few questions regarding this, but what do you say?

[Kiken]

I suggest the demo of Baroque Shooting (which is a looping time-attack of stage 1) be considered for Doujin Week.

[dex]

I particularly like the Caravan week, even though there are very few MAME-able games for it. The Dragon week seems like a fun idea, but it's a little silly too . Also, I'd love Imperishable Night for the doujin week, but the piracy issues pretty much disqualify it as a choice. Nomltest is pretty cool.

I already said that I think the top 3 should have a two point separation, it rewards winning but at the same time doesn't give the best players a huge advantage. Top 5 seems like overkill. Private voting is a must, and 4 games per weeks should be enough if you ask me.

DMC: I think this system would lead to large differences between the first and second teams. And avoiding that is why linear scoring system was suggested.

[lgb]

Reference material.

[Icarus]

Varth is probably too long of a game, don't know exactly how long it takes though (there are 30 levels).

60+ minutes.

Not anywhere near as long as a full run of Zanac Neo (90mins), but still.

Get rid of the dross in Doujin Week and replace with smaller downloads of games with actual scoring systems, or scrap it altogether.

[jpj]

[...]

[mikwuyma]

Lunaria: It looks like it has high system requirements, and the one time I tried running it, I only had sound.

Ultimate Stage: I think it's a good choice. It has low system requirements, a simple but effective scoring system, and no milking, but a lot of people think this game is boring. I put it back up in the topic anyways, just to see what people think.

Varth: I know it's long, but it also has a good scoring system, which is why I suggested it.

ED-057: I put Mahou in there because it's a Raizing game, and the second loop is pretty tough

Rob: If we ever have a 3-player week, I'll include Turbo Force

KennyMan666: Still, I don't need a ton of suggestions, I need suggestions for doujins that have good scoring systems, and nothing incredibly broken about them. While I don't have any qualms with scoring any doujin, sticking with free doujins would mean people can easily find the game, and the selection would be tighter for a doujin week.

ED-057:

P_HAT: Playing 3 games at once? No, it would be too much effort to weight each game equally.

DMC: Dex is right, score blocking would just increase the spread.

LGB: Are you expecting me to look through every game on that site? :-/

Icarus: One of the purposes of this thread is to eliminate the crap so a doujin week is possible.

[Icarus]

Icarus: One of the purposes of this thread is to eliminate the crap so a doujin week is possible.

Okay, good. Then I suggest:

PatriotDark (Extra Mode);
Baroque (Time Attack demo, or if available, the full game);
Rally Raid (demo or full)
parsec47 (on a hard setting)
Kamui (full version)
Tobi D+VINE (demo or full, beware of hentai, though I recall there's Shooting Mode which removes all cutscenes)

These are fairly old and/or not processor intensive, so they should run fine on all systems. If full vers are to be pursued, then add Airrade AIR, Angeraze 2 and Bike Banditz, though I think we should skip over games where the full versions require an ISO download of 400MB or more. Either that or use their respective demos.

[P_HAT]

Rally Raid full.
i think i have the unlock code XD

too bad, there is no way to get it legal.

[lgb]

Nah, I just put a link to the Twinkle Soft page, so you wouldn't have to search so much.

And it's very hard to get some MAME games legal. Not without a lot of cash...