Have you ever 1cc'd a Cave game?

[Skykid]

I just don't get it - I'm waiting to 'level up' and for things to suddenly be like the matrix and the bullets to just seem slower. Occasionally I have moments where something just clicks and I'll somehow demonstrate genius snatched out of thin air (like suddenly avoiding Progear's 3rd boss desperation attack without the aid of a bomb) - but then replicating said feat is nigh on impossible.

I've never 1cc'd a Cave game - my best is final level on Esprade and Final level on PS2 arrange Mushi, and fourth boss on Progear.
I bow at the splendour of DOJ but I'm only a mortal. I'll be lucky to make it to the third level boss. Fuck chaining. I don't even understand the timing of shooting stuff not on screen.

Ibara arrange I made it to the fourth level boss. Once. I loved myself all day.

So what is it? Some kind of magic skillz that only certain people (mostly Japanese) have? Or is it truly just thousands of hours of practice (I've got non-shmup stuff to get thru too! It's distracting!)

Any tips or experiences would be enlightening. Hopefully this thread will be a place for people to discuss their practice methods to gaining shmup godliness, and what they reckon the key is to 1cc'ing a Cave (or particularly rock shmup) is. Then all the lost souls like me can find their way here for some wisdom from the vets.

The poll is just for curiosity - but it would be nice if it was accurate, so don't tell no lies, eh?

[Zebra Airforce]

Play everyday, at least once.

[moozooh]

Or is it truly just thousands of hours of practice

Not thousands, but that's it. Japanese players succeed at these games because they're able to dedicate themselves to them, and that's considering how demanding Japanese society is in regards to the real-life stuff like work.

Just play more and try new approaches to problem spots. Or watch superplays and try to imitate what they do, perhaps with some additions/alterations.

[jpj]

i voted yes. i've done one or two. but i'm not big on '1cc' culture. more impressed by just a good score.

[DirtyMonk]

I'm in the same predicament as you. I've made it to the last stage (1st Loops) of ESPrade, Mushi OG, Guwange, Espgaluda, Progear, Ketsui, and even DOJ. Yet, I have not finished any of them. The reason why for most of them was because I kept rotating games around and never seemed to stick to one game at a time.

So my best advice for you from where I'm at is to find one or two games you enjoy the most and just play the hell out of them for as long as you can until you finish it. Try to play for survival and then worry more about the score until after you can beat it on 1CC. Make it enjoyable too, because getting anal about scoring gets so frustrating, but it can be this compulsive desire at the same time. The trick is just to focus on one game until you've mastered it.

I've never 1CC'd an arcade shooter, ever. I did beat Darius Gaiden for STGT '07, but that one doesn't count because the auto-fire made the game 10 times easier.

[kengou]

So what is it? Some kind of magic skillz that only certain people (mostly Japanese) have? Or is it truly just thousands of hours of practice (I've got non-shmup stuff to get thru too! It's distracting!)

Bingo.

I've also never 1CC'd a cave game, and it sounds like I'm at around the same skill level as you are in most games (I'm lucky if I ever get to the 4th level in DOJ, or the 4th boss in Progear, or the 5th level in Galuda, or the 4th level of Ibara Arrange... etc.). What keeps me motivated to keep practicing is the fact that I remember when I first started playing shmups seriously, and boy did I suck. I still suck, but I sucked so much more back then. Nowadays I can pick up a new shmup and generally get to level 2 or 3 right off the bat, and I remember the first time I played DonPachi I didn't get past the first level (and that level is PATHETICALLY easy now that I play it). Gotta keep things in perspective.

A way I've tried to improve with a lot of Cave games is to just play them a lot, memorize the enemy locations and ways to get through the patterns. A lot of the skill in Cave games is pattern recognition and memorization, although there's a lot of random stuff (like the 2nd boss in DOJ, I hate that thing). Try to figure out a way through each stage without bombing or dying at all, and keep practicing those stages until you can do it consistently, then move to the next stage.

[shoe-sama]

ive never 1ccd a cave gaem 2

[elfhentaifan]

1cc'ing a cave game means knocking down the TLB, so YES, i will beat every single one of them.

[PROMETHEUS]

Just play a lot, have a well memorized path, and use save states to practice. DDP's first loop or Guwange or Esprade are pretty easy to 1CC. Not that it should be a goal in itself though (you'd get better faster by trying to learn scoring paths rather than survival paths).

[DBHashman93]

I'm by no means an expert, but the above comment that mentioned sticking to one or two games at a time definitely rings true with me. After I discovered mame, there were so many potential games to play that when I hit a wall in one it was all too easy to just move on to the next.

In regards to the length of time for practices, there have been several threads about people actually doing worse than usual after extended play sessions. For me, it seems like when I play a session my second or third run is the best, after that there is no point in continuing to play the game as I begin to make stupid mistakes and die on the first boss. So taking breaks from the games actually seems to help as well. Hope you get your first 1cc soon, I would recommend ESPgaluda, it isn't too bad at all!

[unsane]

6th level on ESPRade! There's your victim right there. Just keep throwing yourself at it until you beat it (practice w/ save states), using one other backup game when you need breaks. After 10 hrs i can't even beat stage 3 on that one.

I haven't 1cc'd a Cave game but i haven't dedicated myself to one yet, and have only played a few really. Pretty sure my first will be either DDP or DP, once i give the necessary minimal effort. Both are pretty easy to play for survival, i've played each for 15-20 hrs and reach the before last stage.

I enjoy Dangun Feveron a lot more than any of the above 3 though, so most of my Cave playtime for the foreseeable future will be on that. And there's no way in hell i'll be 1ccing it any time soon - i'm guessing it'll take 200 hrs or something, it's a beast.

[Macaw]

DDP first loop is the easiest Cave thing to clear I think (or maybe ESPGaluda)

I did it in like about 5 hours of playtime. Just choose C-S and bomb your way through the last couple of stages.

[shoe-sama]

it took me 8 attempts to do this when I was much worse at shmups


so yeah i agree on ddp loop 1 being frickin easy

[Erinu]

Practice makes perfect. If you're having problems with a level, practice that level until you can pass it without dying, then keep at it until you can consistently pass it without dying. Or strategically bomb.

In other words, HIT DAT CORE URRDAY LARGE SHOOTIN' 24/7 420

[nimitz]

Just play a lot, have a well memorized path, and use save states to practice. DDP's first loop or Guwange or Esprade are pretty easy to 1CC.

since when Guwange is easy to 1CC? I didn't get the memo.

[Arvandor]

1st loop DDP and ESPgaluda are definitely the easiest. Especially if you use both your barrier field and kakusei mode for survival purposes at the end of Galuda. I mean hell, I'm definitely one of the worst shmupers on this forum, and even I've cleared ESPgaluda and first loop DDP.

[DirtyMonk]

Just play a lot, have a well memorized path, and use save states to practice. DDP's first loop or Guwange or Esprade are pretty easy to 1CC.

since when Guwange is easy to 1CC? I didn't get the memo.

When I first tried playing Guwange, I thought it was impossible. How the hell could you dodge all those bullets?! That was before I realized you could cancel those bullets with your shikigami. And then the game got so much more easier after that--and a lot more addictive. Perfecting the scoring system is an entirely different matter, though.

Guwange is very doable. You can get hit several times, plus there are more than a couple instances where you can replenish your life. The last stage is brutal, but it can be beat with some dedication. I'd say it is probably easier to 1CC than ESPrade imo.

[Plasmo]

Or is it truly just thousands of hours of practice

Nothing more, nothing less.

[MX7]

I voted yes. Just play at least one credit of ESPGaluda every day and you'll get there. At one point a few weeks ago I was playing 2 or three credits on it a day and could consistantly get to the final pattern-ish with roughly 25 mil. But RL work and friends got in the way. That and boredom.

[Skykid]

Thanks for the responses guys - it's really cool to get an understanding of how the forum plays this stuff.

I'M A FOOL: I was a little tired when I posted last night - I have actually 1cc'd Cho Ren Sha 68k and Thunderforce 3 (MD). CRS was my finest shmup achievement - I practiced on it like a madman cos I had my laptop everywhere I went!

I have been playing shmups for years, but I'm pretty sure it's the focus on one game (as so many of you stated here) that's the key. To be great at shmups I'm going to have to genuinely just focus on them one at a time, and a single game in particular, to 1cc it.

I do realise since I've only been playing Esprade and Progear, I'm getting a better understanding of how to beat the games - it does become clearer. It's just a slow, sometimes very daunting process to taking out a Cave game's final levels though! Danmaku blitz!

I have a friend who considers Progear pretty tough: would anyone say that reaching (and nearly beating) the penultimate boss is a promising thing?

[MX7]

I find Progear fucking hard, but that's because I'm shit at scoring in it. Progear is interesting because the better you score, the easier the game becomes due to bullet cancelling and infinite extends. Precisely the opposite to something like DOJ.

[Warp_Rattler]

The only Cave title I've 1cc'ed would be Deathsmiles (unless a true 1cc means going through the Canyon stage first?), and I don't come anywhere close to that on any of the other titles. I'm not sure where all the votes that DDP is easy on the first loop came from; I always get my ass handed to me by the start of level 4, if not sooner.

The thing with practicing is it doesn't need to be the 'thousands of hours', and while one credit a day (if you're going to the arcade and not trying for the clear at home on MAME/PCB/toaster) is kind to one's wallet, the best thing to do is play often enough that you have a chance to learn a liittle more by the time you call it quits. It might be after one credit; it might be after ten that you finally realize, "Oh, I'm playing like a dumbshit in this spot, that's why I always die" or "I can squeeze a few thousand more points out of this spot if I only..." For example with Deathsmiles I worked my way up to the point where I could consistently arrive at the Final level only to get my ass repeatedly kicked by Jitterbug or Tyrannosatan; at that point I'd only play one credit a day, because I'd be pretty frustrated that I'd be forced to play for a good 20-30 minutes again just to get to the point where I was having problems. Though as an aside, that game's the best value my 50 yen has ever gotten me in an arcade.

But that's just my take on things, and with only Deathsmiles under my belt I'm hardly the voice of authority.

[spadgy]

Not yet - but soon I tell you. Soon.

I'm sticking with Progear till I get it...

[markedkiller78]

Not yet - but soon I tell you. Soon.

I'm sticking with Progear till I get it...

I get raped by the sideways bullets on the Level 4 boss Same in Ketsui. Any bullets travelling horizontally just fuck me up.

I voted yes, if you have the dedication, then of course you can. Skill plays a great factor in it, but put in the hours & you'll see progress. Well I tell myself this all the time.

I was aimnig for a 1cc in Esp Ra.de by xmas, but it's still eluding me.

[Frederik]

it took me 8 attempts to do this when I was much worse at shmups


so yeah i agree on ddp loop 1 being frickin easy

I saw that vid on YouTube. My condolence.

I thought that I MAYBE will be able to clear the first loop in DDP, but then again, these last patterns are pure hell.

To be great at shmups I'm going to have to genuinely just focus on them one at a time, and a single game in particular, to 1cc it.

...and not grow tired of it after a while.

[PROMETHEUS]

Just play a lot, have a well memorized path, and use save states to practice. DDP's first loop or Guwange or Esprade are pretty easy to 1CC.

since when Guwange is easy to 1CC? I didn't get the memo.

Really if you know your way through the game a little it's not very hard at all, since you get a FULL life refill in the middle of the last stage, and another 1/3 refill just before the last boss.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

The only Cave title I've 1cc'ed would be Deathsmiles (unless a true 1cc means going through the Canyon stage first?), and I don't come anywhere close to that on any of the other titles. I'm not sure where all the votes that DDP is easy on the first loop came from; I always get my ass handed to me by the start of level 4, if not sooner.

Probably that it's the easiest one you can play on MAME. It really is easy though, you get so many bombs you can pretty much just keep bombing everything remotely difficult from stage 4 onward. I did a 1cc on my second try of the game a few weeks back, having not played for over a year. ESPG is still a bit easier though.


As far as Guwange goes, even with the life extends it's still pretty tough. Stage 6 is really significantly harder than the rest of the game, and you can't bomb the final form of the final boss. I definitely wouldn't say it's one of the easier ones.

[KNTain]

I've been working on Donpachi for a few weeks. Easier or harder than DDP's first loop? I assumed it would be easier, but then I see stuff like this:

DDP first loop is the easiest Cave thing to clear I think (or maybe ESPGaluda)

Espgaluda seemed pretty easy to me, too, but I have yet to beat the Stage 5-1 boss. I should get back to it after dp.

[Skykid]

Espgaluda is fine until you reach the last pattern on the last boss. Then, as Masamune said to me in Casino the other week, 'It turns into a Cave game.'

I voted yes, if you have the dedication, then of course you can.

Hey Markedkiller! (You're on KC right?)

Which Cave game have you 1cc'd then?

DDP first loop is the easiest Cave thing to clear I think (or maybe ESPGaluda)

I just don't understand this!

Progear is interesting because the better you score, the easier the game becomes due to bullet cancelling and infinite extends.

Infinite extends! How!!

[Twiddle]

That's only true for the first loop