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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:17 pm 


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and a small addition for XRGB users: if you have to use the 800x600 dip switch setting to get scanlines on the XRGB's B1 output, then you forgot to invert the vertical sync polarity in the XRGB's menu. Funny thing is that you only get scanlines with the wrong sync polarity on 240p inputs. 480i and 480p inputs won't show any scanlines no matter which dip switch setting you choose....


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:17 pm 


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bencao74 wrote:
added a quick info to the order page

Quick Info - http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/wordpress/?page_id=745


Thanks. Btw, all the orders you sent out on friday, where they only the pre-ordered ones, or all of the orders made up to that date? I'm still waiting for mine, and there are at least two other Swedes who's gotten theirs already.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:25 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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Just ordered one for myself. Looking forward to the results.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:40 pm 


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Quote:
For Ketsui, bicubic gives me the best results (more pleasant to my eyes) on both the SLG3000 and XRGB-3/emotia combo.


All depends on your display and resolution I suppose. Can't wait to try it out with this thing though.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:04 pm 


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Some more testing, this time with those "we don't work with the XRGB" machines, PGM and MVS. The MVS was a 4-slot PCB if it matters. While the PGM at least works on some XRGB/TV combinations, the MVS is a real bitch. XRGB B0 can work, but B1 is extremely hard to get running unless you use a multisync CRT as your target display.

Anyway, both systems run fine with both a Faroudja-based linedoubler (Videon Omega HDP) and with my DVDO 50Pro. While on my Sony LCD both, the PGM and the MVS displayed fine through both upscalers, my NEC LCD couldn't handle the 59,1Hz 480p from the Faroudja. On the DVDO the output frequency can be unlocked, so it's always 59,94Hz no matter what the input is. So, while the Faroudja processors are a worth a try, it's safe to say that the DVDOs should work with all displays. The outputs have been run through the SLG3000 of course and here are the results:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Thanks to Christian for lending me the PGM and MVS for some testing sessions!

Later on I'll test the HDBoxPro with both systems, just to see if that's a cheap solution to PGM/MVS on a LCD....


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:21 pm 



Joined: 25 Sep 2010
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awesome job, Fudoh. much, much appreciated.

do you have one of those cheap chinese cga to vga converters? i just ordered one, so i can hook up my mvs board and a slg3000 to a lg tft screen (l2000 cp with 1600x1200 native resolution) and it would be nice to know how you feel about that combo. i know it's a bit late as i already spent the money, but i didn't know you had access to mvs hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:29 pm 


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Quote:
do you have one of those cheap chinese cga to vga converters?

I have a HDBoxPro clone which is basically the same hardware, just enclosed and for home use, not for cab-use.

Just gave it a try and it works fine on my setup. The deinterlacing of those CGA to VGA converters isn't great (the 240p to 480p process), but you can easily change this part of your setup later on if you need to. Since the HDBoxPro also gave a picture on my NEC LCD, I would suspect that the HDBoxPro unlocks the output frequency as well (fixed to 59.94Hz no matter what the input), so you should have on problems on your LG monitor either. To make the SLG3000 work you must use 480p output though, even if the CGA2VGA converter offers upscaling.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:40 pm 


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The DVDO results are actually suprisingly good. Are you using the HD Fury to go from HDMI to VGA on the DVDO?


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:47 pm 


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No, my 50Pro has a direct RGBHV output via BNC terminals. I currently can't get an Edge, but Edge/HDFury/SLG3000 should be exactly the same.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:47 pm 



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
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So are you not using the video processors to scale it to 1080p? You're letting the tv do that? When I heard about this device my thought was

console>RGB-vga interface>SLG300>DVDO>TV

wouldnt that be better?


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:08 am 


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Usually not worth the trouble. Most 1080p TV sets do a "good enough" job on scaling. My Sony TV for example usually does scaling better than the DVDO machines (less ringing = halos around dark edges).

In the above tests both the Videon or the DVDO are just used to linedouble the 240p source signal to 480p and output that as VGA into the SLG3000. The SLG3000 is connected to the TV (through a RGB interface, but that's a compatibility issue with my TV).

As usual there is no "best" setup. It all depends on which sources you use, which processors and which display. If you used a 240p source for your suggested processing chain, you'd need a second upscaler before the SLG3000 - that's usually not ideal. I try to use the easiest setup with the best possible quality. If getting the very best quality means chaining more and more processors, I usually don't do it.

Otherwise you end with stuff like this (already tried of course):

240p Source -> Extron RGB Interface 1 -> XSelect-D4 -> XRGB -> Extron RGB Interface 2 -> Optoma Upscaler -> HDFury -> Blackmagic -> DVDO Upscaler -> HDMI Matrix -> TV

Cleanest and most stable signal signal, upscaled to VGA by the XRGB. Output is sync processed and passed on the Optoma for upscaling to 720p. The HD Fury converts the output to analogue Component. The Blackmagic adds a live overlay for scanline processing on HD signals. The Output (via HD-SDI) is upscaled by the DVDO to 1080p, routed through the Matrix into the TV.

Great quality, total delay under 2 frames, but hell, do I want to keep it like this ? No way, never ! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:23 am 


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Just curious if any USA buyers received theirs yet?

Also @ Fudah... can you post pics on any PS2 interlaced games like 3rd strike via the XRGB3 with scanlines intact. I'm really excited about this prospect. From what I understand you have done this with the XRGB3 and the SLG-3000 and the end results are good?

I don't know why this never crossed my mind before, I suppose it's b/c I've totally abandoned any interlaced games (that were suppose to be 240p) once my PCB buying kicked in.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:26 am 


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Quote:
Also @ Fudah... can you post pics on any PS2 interlaced games like 3rd strike via the XRGB3 with scanlines intact.

Page 4 of this thread. You see Metal Slug 3 running in 480i on a PS2 through the XRGB. Since the XRGB can't render scanlines on 480i material, those are done by the SLG3000. Depending on the coding of the 480i games you might have to switch the even/odd scanline rendering on the SLG, but that's just two dips to switch....


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:45 am 


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I'll probably wind up re-buying a few games b/c of this now. Especially some of the later SNK DC ports.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:14 am 



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@ bencao74, please check your pm-inbox.

I need me one of these .... ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:42 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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Location: Australia
@ Fudoh

How do you get those MVS and PGM working on Videon? Through component?


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:08 am 


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bencao74:

Any chance of a future revision that supports 1024x768 resolution?
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:15 am 


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emphatic wrote:
Thanks. Btw, all the orders you sent out on friday, where they only the pre-ordered ones, or all of the orders made up to that date? I'm still waiting for mine, and there are at least two other Swedes who's gotten theirs already.


All of the order made up to the date 24th january (incl.) was sent out...

Quote:
Any chance of a future revision that supports 1024x768 resolution?


Sorry, I really thought resolution higher than 800x600 are not interesting, I was mistaken. We didn't posted the info, but SLG supports much more....



Code:
Resolution DIP4        DIP5        effect
640 x480        OFF        ON        1,3,5 usw scanline
               ON        OFF        2,4,6 usw scanline

600 x 800        OFF        OFF        1,3,5 usw scanline

1024 x768        OFF        ON        1,3,5 usw scanline
                 ON        OFF        2,4,6 usw scanline

1280 x 800        OFF        ON        1,3,5 usw scanline
                  ON        OFF        2,4,6 usw scanline

1280 x 1024        OFF        OFF        1,3,5 usw scanline

1600 x 1200        OFF        OFF        1,3,5 usw scanline


So scanlines up to 1600 x 1200 are supported.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:21 am 


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bencao74 wrote:
Sorry, I really thought resolution higher than 800x600 are not interesting, I was mistaken. We didn't posted the info, but SLG supports much more....
.


OMG...your little thingy is fantastic! :shock:
I ordered this yesterday, cant wait to get it home.

Thanks
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:05 am 


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bencao74 wrote:
So scanlines up to 1600 x 1200 are supported.


You guys are brilliant!!

By the way, I made some captures on CAVE games running on the 360 and I could even see scanlines (very thin though) when the 360's resolution was set to 1920X1080... how is that possible? Didn't change any dips on the SLG3000.

Image

Same settings but with the 360 at 640X480.

Image
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:21 am 


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hehe, our test equipment was only up to 1600x 1200. We stopped then... :))))
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:24 am 



Joined: 25 Sep 2010
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Location: germany
@ Fudoh:

thanks.

bencao74 wrote:
So scanlines up to 1600 x 1200 are supported.

and it keeps getting better and better. you should try to patent the slg asap.

looks like i'll have to save up for a better upscaler afterall, but it'll be SO worth it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:51 pm 


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bencao74 wrote:
All of the order made up to the date 24th january (incl.) was sent out...


I ordered on 25 January. When will the next set of orders go out?

Many thanks to all involved with the SGL3000. It's an incredible product. I love the "new" features.
Are there any other features we need to be aware of? :lol:
You guys really need to patent this.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:03 pm 



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I ordered one for use with the XRGB2 which supports scanlines but does not have options for them except on and off.

What recommended settings do you suggest for that Fudoh?

:) Cheers.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:22 pm 


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Got mine today and spent the whole day testing/taking photos. If someone turn up decent I'll post them here if wanted.d

The only downside IMHO so far is that it has female connectors in both ends. I would prefer a male input and a female output. Now I have to use an extra VGA-cable, but I'll get one of those small gender changers. But perhaps something to think about for a future revision.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:24 pm 


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Hey,

order from 25th and up will be sent out on friday the 28th or on staurday morning.

Thanks a lot for all the kind words. :)

Ehm, and yes, thats all about the features... I guess.... ;)
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:31 pm 


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Quote:
How do you get those MVS and PGM working on Videon? Through component?

run them through a transcoder before....

Quote:
The only downside IMHO so far is that it has female connectors in both ends.

the problem with male connectors is that they can only be used to directly plug the SLG on the output connector of the source. Once you want to use a cable you have to use VGA extenders intead of cables. I wouldn't dare plugging the SLG onto the source directly "hanging in the air". Cables are so heavy that either the PCB might break or the connector's pins would bend. This is why I suggested female connectors only and I'm sure most people prefer this. Using a gender changer is an easy way out of this of course.

And, emphatic, of course please post your pictures!


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:15 pm 


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Okay, here goes. Todays pictures from my quick test (I have kids, so my time to rig stuff up is sadly limited). Tested with Dreamcast, VGA cable and Acer LCD-screen:

Karous (paused screen)

Image


Mars Matrix. Looks great IMHO:

Image


Twinkle Star Sprites:

Image

And some native 31kHz to sum up the Dreamcast test.


Zero Gunner 2:

Image


Shikigami No Shiro 2 (screen was slightly tilted, hence the weird direction of the scanlines):

Image


Running MAME in 800x600:

Image

Faded the cut from non-scanline to scanline in this picture in Photoshop:

Image


I did a quick test of the SLG3000 in my EGRET II (24kHz) running DOJ BL Extra through my UVC. Max scanline looks weird (like they get some compression in the middle), I'm sure that this is because the UVC outputs 640x384. When I turned the scanline level down to "just visible" I thought it looked pretty nice, but I don't see myself using this in 24kHz.

Image

Or I had the DIP settings incorrectly set during this test. I never touched them at all frankly, just hooked stuff up to it and used a stand for my camera to get the shots to be as similar as possible. I had them like this:

1 ON
2 ON
3 ON
4 OFF
5 ON
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:56 pm 


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bencao74 wrote:
Hey,

order from 25th and up will be sent out on friday the 28th or on staurday morning.

Thanks a lot for all the kind words. :)

Ehm, and yes, thats all about the features... I guess.... ;)


Just ordered one of these beauties - looks fab !

Ooh any chance mine could be included in the Saturday morning shipment, if it happens ? ;)

:)


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:21 pm 


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all orders up to now 28th january 16.20 o'clock will be shipped this evening.

two pieces left from the second wave. :)
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